BoxRec

lurkyshaka wrote: He could have boxed more first, but think he felt it important to mentally take the upperhand from the get go by surprising Murat with immediate aggression.

could he? I'd be really interested to hear the last time Cleverley outboxed a European level fighter. or outboxed anyone, acutally.

just cos he's 6'2 doesn't make him some sort of slick boxer. just cos you look at him and think he should jab, doesn't mean he will. I've seen him 'live' twice now and i think he maybe managed 20 jabs in total between both fights.

Bomber 1 wrote:he done good but all I have to say is this, If your 6ft 2inch tall why would you fight a guy 5ft 10inch tall in a phone box?? Boxing is about hitting without getting hit unless you have a punch like David Haye,Mike Tyson and so on, Clev could have made the fight so much easier but he didn't he went on the front foot and had a fantastic scrap just like with Oakey, Great for the fans but it won't be great for his career. I just hope he stays unbeaten..

But don't you feel that had Cleverly boxed off the backfoot, he'd have been allowing Murat to fight his regular fight where he's used to having to deal with the jab and range of his opposition? You could literally see that Murat was somewhat shocked at how aggressive Cleverly was. Mentally aswell as physically Cleverly really bossed the fight. Think that was important against a guy like Murat who likes and expects to be the stalker.

Think he'd be better of using a different tact should he fight you, but we'll have to wait a bit longer for that one to happen. Too risky for Cleverly at this point and can't see Warren wanting to see that fight at this point. But if things go according to plan in a years time a fight between you and Clev could be a British blockbuster.

lurkyshaka wrote:
But don't you feel that had Cleverly boxed off the backfoot,

why the eff would Clev fight on the backfoot?

why change, in the biggest fight of his life, the tactics that got him there?

has he ever managed to jab double figures in a single round?

has he ever shown any inclination to take a single backward step?

have you seen him fight before saturday night?

who cares how he fought on the night, he won and for me he won easily. He stole the show, best fight on the night by a mile. He's proved he's ready to move onto the world stage

Counter-puncher wrote:lurkyshaka- genuine question- you know you're saying this swarming attack from Clev was some kind of gameplan, as opposed to him jabbing an so on?

i have to ask you when was the last time Clev did anything other than, umm, a swarming attack?

seems to me you are making out he had some kind of masterpiece of gameplanning when all he didd was... fight EXACTLY how he always fights, and I am at a bit of a loss here as to why you're making his usual tactics part of some sort of strategy.

I do think Cleverly is capable of using a more measured approach where he'd make better use of his jab and length. But there is definitely a danger if he gets too fond of the aggressive approach, and forgets he can box a bit aswell. But for the other nights fight, i personally think an aggressive, crowding aproach was ideal.

But he'll need a more versatile approach in future fights, and we'll see if he's able to remember his boxing when its needed. Probably won't get the truthful answer to that till he steps up in class again though.

lurkyshaka wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:lurkyshaka- genuine question- you know you're saying this swarming attack from Clev was some kind of gameplan, as opposed to him jabbing an so on?

i have to ask you when was the last time Clev did anything other than, umm, a swarming attack?

seems to me you are making out he had some kind of masterpiece of gameplanning when all he didd was... fight EXACTLY how he always fights, and I am at a bit of a loss here as to why you're making his usual tactics part of some sort of strategy.

I do think Cleverly is capable of using a more measured approach where he'd make better use of his jab and length.
.

as i thought, its the 'leap of faith' argument.

Brilliant performance from a young, intelligent British fighter - who for 99% of his career has combined training with a degree/education - and people are still trying to belittle his achievements and make excuses for the opposition.

He was superb on Saturday against an unbeaten, tough fighter. End of.....

PS He wouldn't stand a chance against Cloud and Pascal?

Give me a break, they're not that great. They're a step up from Murat but people talk about them like they're superhuman ffs.

Pascal would give Cleverly all he could handle and for me he is too much at this stage, but in another 12 months, when he is boxing and training full time as a professional, with no academic responsibilities, we'll see Clev step through the gears.

He was terrific......some of you need to give him his props.

Counter-puncher wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:
But don't you feel that had Cleverly boxed off the backfoot,

why the eff would Clev fight on the backfoot?

Well thats what has been suggested he should have done.

why change, in the biggest fight of his life, the tactics that got him there?

I never said he should, but Cleverly has more facets to his game than simply aggression.

has he ever managed to jab double figures in a single round?

I've never sat counting his jabs previously, so couldn't answer that question as fact.

has he ever shown any inclination to take a single backward step?

He's used a more measured approach in previous fights, but sheer aggression worked very well the other night.

have you seen him fight before saturday night?

Yes several times, as funnily enough i'm quite keen boxing

Do you not like Cleverly?

Captain Hook wrote:Brilliant performance from a young, intelligent British fighter - who for 99% of his career has combined training with a degree/education - and people are still trying to belittle his achievements and make excuses for the opposition.

He was superb on Saturday against an unbeaten, tough fighter. End of.....

PS He wouldn't stand a chance against Cloud and Pascal?

Give me a break, they're not that great. They're a step up from Murat but people talk about them like they're superhuman ffs.

Pascal would give Cleverly all he could handle and for me he is too much at this stage, but in another 12 months, when he is boxing and training full time as a professional, with no academic responsibilities, we'll see Clev step through the gears.

He was terrific......some of you need to give him his props.

This should end the thread, great comments

lurky i do like cleverley

i just think he's good enough on his own without you or anyone else turning him into the kind of slickster he's never shown the inclination towards being.

RE jabs. next time you watch him, count them. it will be enlightening for you i think.

Counter-puncher wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:lurkyshaka- genuine question- you know you're saying this swarming attack from Clev was some kind of gameplan, as opposed to him jabbing an so on?

i have to ask you when was the last time Clev did anything other than, umm, a swarming attack?

seems to me you are making out he had some kind of masterpiece of gameplanning when all he didd was... fight EXACTLY how he always fights, and I am at a bit of a loss here as to why you're making his usual tactics part of some sort of strategy.

I do think Cleverly is capable of using a more measured approach where he'd make better use of his jab and length.
.

as i thought, its the 'leap of faith' argument.

No, but we've yet to see how Cleverly's 'boxing' or 'aggression' works against truly top class opposition.

It may or may not hold up under that kind of scrutiny.....We'll all have to wait and see.

lurkyshaka wrote:
It may or may not hold up under that kind of scrutiny.....We'll all have to wait and see.

indeed.

CP - Is it me, or did he look slower than when we saw him last? There wasn't a huge gulf in speed that I expected to see.

Counter-puncher wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:
It may or may not hold up under that kind of scrutiny.....We'll all have to wait and see.

indeed.

Just so i've got this clear....

You don't think Cleverly has shown the ability to 'box' in the past, nor do you really think he's capable of using a more measured boxing approach in the future?

I'm a huge fan of Nathan's - but honest, I think Team Clev should put the champagne back on ice.

Murat was always a couple of pounds under the Super middleweight limit, so was surprised to see him campaigning at Light heavy as he lacks power and is also rather slow - and I'm afraid to say, but I thought Clev made hard work of it.

Next time out, he needs to give himself a bit more space to operate, use that rangy jab and the lovely straight right hand.

Quality not quantity.

Against another full sized 6'1+ genuinely world class Light heavy, that approach would have likely to have back fired as he slowed down later in the fight.

aye matt, he's sitting down more on shots maybe but i agree he didn't look as quick as he did vs McIntosh.

lurky:

You don't think Cleverly has shown the ability to 'box' in the past, nor do you really think he's capable of using a more measured boxing approach in the future?

mostly the former, he hasn't shown much or any inclination to box on the backfoot so far. mostly though i though you were a bit barking continually going on about various boxing options Clev could have gameplanned differently, when he's never done them before

trying to make an analogy here, its like saying my team Wolves away at Spurs last saturday

we are not a team reknowned for sikly football

basically we kick people and crowd them

for me the equivalent to what you were saying would be 'wolves had a brilliant gameplan the other day, they crowded and kicked and got stuck into Spurs, when they could have used the silky skills of their multi-international midfield and played the attacking football they are known up and down the country for.'

if i was saying that, i wouldn't be able to complain when they carted me off to the loonybin.

Counter-puncher wrote:aye matt, he's sitting down more on shots maybe but i agree he didn't look as quick as he did vs McIntosh.

lurky:

You don't think Cleverly has shown the ability to 'box' in the past, nor do you really think he's capable of using a more measured boxing approach in the future?

mostly the former, he hasn't shown much or any inclination to box on the backfoot so far. mostly though i though you were a bit barking continually going on about various boxing options Clev could have gameplanned differently, when he's never done them before

trying to make an analogy here, its like saying my team Wolves away at Spurs last saturday

we are not a team reknowned for sikly football

basically we kick people and crowd them

for me the equivalent to what you were saying would be 'wolves had a brilliant gameplan the other day, they crowded and kicked and got stuck into Spurs, when they could have used the silky skills of their multi-international midfield and played the attacking football they are known up and down the country for.'

if i was saying that, i wouldn't be able to complain when they carted me off to the loonybin.

I understand your point, but i don't think you're giving Cleverly enough credit for the boxing ability he has shown in the past. He's been happy to trade in recent fights but he's shown actual boxing ability previously.

And if Cleverly is only capable of being the rough and rugged fighter we saw on Saturday night....then does beg the question why were the SKY team calling for him to box more? I think because they like me also recognise that Cleverly can 'box' a bit, but i just disagreed with them about him needing to use that ability against Murat.

And to be honest....some might say you should definitely be carted off to the loonybin for being a Wolves fan in the first place

lurkyshaka wrote:


I understand your point, but i don't think you're giving Cleverly enough credit for the boxing ability he has shown in the past.

And if Cleverly is only capable of being the rough and rugged fighter we saw on Saturday night....then does beg the question why were the SKY team calling for him to box more? I think because they like me also recognise that Cleverly can 'box' a bit, but i just disagreed with them about him needing to use that ability against Murat.

(1) As we've discussed, not at top level he hasn't, he's been a swarmer for 7-8 fights now at least

(2) cos they are paid to say something and are always trying to find fault? they HAVE to say something.

I'd imagine because he's tall, quick, rangy and has huge reach but isn't using those tools - You'd expect him to "box" rather than fight a squat super middle like he's the same size.

Counter-puncher wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:


I understand your point, but i don't think you're giving Cleverly enough credit for the boxing ability he has shown in the past.

And if Cleverly is only capable of being the rough and rugged fighter we saw on Saturday night....then does beg the question why were the SKY team calling for him to box more? I think because they like me also recognise that Cleverly can 'box' a bit, but i just disagreed with them about him needing to use that ability against Murat.

(1) As we've discussed, not at top level he hasn't, he's been a swarmer for 7-8 fights now at least

(2) cos they are paid to say something and are always trying to find fault? they HAVE to say something.

I agree at top level he hasn't....But in fairness to the likes of Watt and the rest of the SKY team. I don't think we'd ever hear them calling for Margarito to box more, so i reckon they genuinely think there is scope for Cleverly to use boxing ability.

I'm not saying Cleverly is a slickster by any means, but i certainly think he's a bit more skilled boxing wise than you're giving him credit for.

if Clev was boxing on the backfoot i guarantee at least one of the Sky team would be saying he needed more urgency/ should be pushing Murat back, etc etc etc.

Its the way to Beat the Murats of the world, if you have the Tools to do it. Change there Proprioception, thats what He did. The Murats of the world get there distance and balance of the other guys jab.

Counter-puncher wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:


I understand your point, but i don't think you're giving Cleverly enough credit for the boxing ability he has shown in the past.

And if Cleverly is only capable of being the rough and rugged fighter we saw on Saturday night....then does beg the question why were the SKY team calling for him to box more? I think because they like me also recognise that Cleverly can 'box' a bit, but i just disagreed with them about him needing to use that ability against Murat.

(1) As we've discussed, not at top level he hasn't, he's been a swarmer for 7-8 fights now at least

(2) cos they are paid to say something and are always trying to find fault? they HAVE to say something.

And out of these last 8 fights how many stoppages has he had - 7
Surely this in itself tells you your argument is flawed? He has grown into a big LH now and with that has come power, he believes he can now stop people. I do agree that he should use his advantages christ knows he has been told but at the end of the day when the bell goes there is only 1 person that can choose what he wants to do and that is Nath.

7 ko's out of 8 is good. but i don't think it contradicts my argument in the slightest.

i have said i haven't seen much evidence of Clev showing the boxing skills lurky is talking about. he has been a swarmer for the past several fights.

how is that contradicted by 7 stoppages out of 8?

do you mean, it seems it is working for him so why change it?

exactly my point, really.

Bomber 1 wrote:he done good but all I have to say is this, If your 6ft 2inch tall why would you fight a guy 5ft 10inch tall in a phone box?? Boxing is about hitting without getting hit unless you have a punch like David Haye,Mike Tyson and so on, Clev could have made the fight so much easier but he didn't he went on the front foot and had a fantastic scrap just like with Oakey, Great for the fans but it won't be great for his career. I just hope he stays unbeaten..

surely clev is going to vacate ATLEAST the british now bomber, he's tekin the piss a bit. i doubt he will ever fight for it again, but he is just holding onto it for no reason, must be fustrating for you