BoxRec

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

No doubt, Mugabi is on a roll.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nothing factual about him being over trained. That's what some of us call an excuse. Just like the leg rubdown in the Hagler fight. Manny is an excuse machine.

I do think that Steward's excuses for Tommy's defeats must embarrass Tommy himself.

Why can he not just admit that Tommy lost to the better man?

Syntax Error wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nothing factual about him being over trained. That's what some of us call an excuse. Just like the leg rubdown in the Hagler fight. Manny is an excuse machine.

I do think that Steward's excuses for Tommy's defeats must embarrass Tommy himself.

Why can he not just admit that Tommy lost to the better man?

He weighed his lightest for 12 fights. There must be a reason for that.

Syntax Error wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nothing factual about him being over trained. That's what some of us call an excuse. Just like the leg rubdown in the Hagler fight. Manny is an excuse machine.

I do think that Steward's excuses for Tommy's defeats must embarrass Tommy himself.

Why can he not just admit that Tommy lost to the better man?

He could never admit he was wrong about anything. It's embarrassing watching him change his mind during commentary.

I wouldn't go so far as to call leonard the better man, but he damn sure went through hell and won that fight fair and square. It was the greatest moment of Ray's career and one of the gutsier comebacks you will ever see.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nothing factual about him being over trained. That's what some of us call an excuse. Just like the leg rubdown in the Hagler fight. Manny is an excuse machine.

I do think that Steward's excuses for Tommy's defeats must embarrass Tommy himself.

Why can he not just admit that Tommy lost to the better man?

He could never admit he was wrong about anything. It's embarrassing watching him change his mind during commentary.

I wouldn't go so far as to call leonard the better man, but he damn sure went through hell and won that fight fair and square. It was the greatest moment of Ray's career and one of the gutsier comebacks you will ever see.

So why was he 2 pounds lighter?

Tyson vs Douglas for me!

A few days after Douglas shocked the world, both guys appeared on HBO in the Studio with Larry Merchant, to talk about the fight in Tokyo, etc.

Tyson was still wearing Glasses to cover his very swollen eye. When asked about a rematch, Tyson left no doubt he was eager for a second fight, you can see him get sort of Anxious, saying "I want a rematch ASAP".

However, Douglas was not so enthusiastic about it. It would have been interesting to see how Tyson went about business if the rematch had taken place?

Tyson probably would have whipped Douglas in a rematch. Tyons would performed a little better. Douglas was not a guy who could fight at that high of level very often.

As for Hearns weight of 145, well he did weigh just 146 for a few of his fights not that long before the Leonard fight and only weighed 145 1/2 against Espada. Leonard himself only weighed 145 in the first Duran fight; have never heard that as a excuse for Leonard.
Besides, the scales are not exact. They certainly can differ by at least a pound.

When great fighters square off the victories can rest on small moments.

All of these fighters were so close in ability that the rematches would have had unpredictable outcomes.

Syntax Error wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nothing factual about him being over trained. That's what some of us call an excuse. Just like the leg rubdown in the Hagler fight. Manny is an excuse machine.

I do think that Steward's excuses for Tommy's defeats must embarrass Tommy himself.

Why can he not just admit that Tommy lost to the better man?

telling, is it not, that Manny goes to the well for these excuses where I've never once seen or heard Hearns do so.

Counter-puncher wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nothing factual about him being over trained. That's what some of us call an excuse. Just like the leg rubdown in the Hagler fight. Manny is an excuse machine.

I do think that Steward's excuses for Tommy's defeats must embarrass Tommy himself.

Why can he not just admit that Tommy lost to the better man?

telling, is it not, that Manny goes to the well for these excuses where I've never once seen or heard Hearns do so.

I read the overtraining story written by a third party.

You read a third party story and turned it into a fact?

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

Syntax Error wrote: I do think that Steward's excuses for Tommy's defeats must embarrass Tommy himself.

Why can he not just admit that Tommy lost to the better man?

telling, is it not, that Manny goes to the well for these excuses where I've never once seen or heard Hearns do so.

I read the overtraining story written by a third party.

a third party who got it from.... manny steward?

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You read a third party story and turned it into a fact?

Who's opinion is right?

1. Thomas Hearns (the fighter in question)
2. Manny Stewart (his trainer)
3. Ferdie Pacheco (a legendary fight figure & the third party I was reffering to)
4. Saadoffthedeck (internet poster)

Hmmm. Tough choice.

yeah, Ferdie Pacheco is an absolutely unquestionable source. Ferdie Pacheco quoting Steward can only, then, be better still. right?

Counter-puncher wrote:yeah, Ferdie Pacheco is an absolutely unquestionable source. Ferdie Pacheco quoting Steward can only, then, be better still. right?

Pacheco visited Hearns in training for the fight. And you are a more reliable source than the people that were at the fight?

you're talking about Ferdie 'Ali's deteriorating health was nothing to do with me- I was just his doctor' Pacheco. integrity isn't exactly his by-word.

Hmmmmmm…

What’s the difference between something being a “factor” in the outcome or an “excuse” for losing? If people don’t want to discuss the factors of a fight then why not just load up the fighters’ records and browse through them, safe in the knowledge that what happened on that night was simply a “W” or “L”?

Countless factors make up any event or outcome. Calling them all excuses tries to put a lid on debate – but debate is the whole point of a site like this!

A fighter’s weight, size, condition, game-plan, injuries, outside the ring problems, training camp, etc… are all a part of what makes a fight what it is. They are circumstances and not excuses.

Ezzard wrote:Hmmmmmm…

What’s the difference between something being a “factor” in the outcome or an “excuse” for losing? If people don’t want to discuss the factors of a fight then why not just load up the fighters’ records and browse through them, safe in the knowledge that what happened on that night was simply a “W” or “L”?

Countless factors make up any event or outcome. Calling them all excuses tries to put a lid on debate – but debate is the whole point of a site like this!

A fighter’s weight, size, condition, game-plan, injuries, outside the ring problems, training camp, etc… are all a part of what makes a fight what it is. They are circumstances and not excuses.

Ezzard

It's nice to know that there's someone with half a brain on here. :)

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Hmmmmmm…

What’s the difference between something being a “factor” in the outcome or an “excuse” for losing? If people don’t want to discuss the factors of a fight then why not just load up the fighters’ records and browse through them, safe in the knowledge that what happened on that night was simply a “W” or “L”?

Countless factors make up any event or outcome. Calling them all excuses tries to put a lid on debate – but debate is the whole point of a site like this!

A fighter’s weight, size, condition, game-plan, injuries, outside the ring problems, training camp, etc… are all a part of what makes a fight what it is. They are circumstances and not excuses.

Ezzard

It's nice to know that there's someone with half a brain on here. :)

Let me know when you've worked out who he is

keithmoonhangover wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:You read a third party story and turned it into a fact?

Who's opinion is right?

1. Thomas Hearns (the fighter in question)
2. Manny Stewart (his trainer)
3. Ferdie Pacheco (a legendary fight figure & the third party I was reffering to)
4. Saadoffthedeck (internet poster)

Hmmm. Tough choice.

Thomas Hearns was a third party source to his training? Do you even think for a second before you type? I've never heard hearns say he over trained. I bet you think Erik Morales beat Pacquiao because of manny socks too.

Fighters say a lot of things to rationalize defeat. Though I've never known Hearns to be one of them. he didn't even complain when he got hosed in the rematch. It's part of their make up, you have to feel invincible to a certain degree to reach to the top.

But you certainly have no interest in learning anything. It's just unfortunate for me that I catch drivel like this before I log on and you're ignored.

Ezzard wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Hmmmmmm…

What’s the difference between something being a “factor” in the outcome or an “excuse” for losing? If people don’t want to discuss the factors of a fight then why not just load up the fighters’ records and browse through them, safe in the knowledge that what happened on that night was simply a “W” or “L”?

Countless factors make up any event or outcome. Calling them all excuses tries to put a lid on debate – but debate is the whole point of a site like this!

A fighter’s weight, size, condition, game-plan, injuries, outside the ring problems, training camp, etc… are all a part of what makes a fight what it is. They are circumstances and not excuses.

Ezzard

It's nice to know that there's someone with half a brain on here. :)

Let me know when you've worked out who he is

Saad. You didn't pick from my list.

Who's opinion is right?

1. Thomas Hearns (the fighter in question)
2. Manny Stewart (his trainer)
3. Ferdie Pacheco (a legendary fight figure & the third party I was reffering to)
4. Saadoffthedeck (internet poster)

Hmmm. Tough choice.

I voted 'None'. My reason is I would like to see Lewis vs Vitali

I recently read the biog of Hearns and the press hammered Stweard after the fight. They all believed that Dundee's experience and Stweard's lack of it was a major factor in the result.

I've read since about Steward feeling Hearns overtrained, but right after the fight the finger was pointed at Emmanuel who many felt was overawed by the occassion and actually was responsible for overtraining Hearns.

Who knows? Whatever your belief it just adds to the story of the fight.

carlbcfc wrote:I voted 'None'. My reason is I would like to see Lewis vs Vitali

I love the story of Lennox and Vitali sitting around the table in Lennox's mum's kitchen negotiating a rematch.

Lennox was on his way out and 6-12 months later would have found the going with Vitali even harder.