BoxRec

Personally, I feel that combining the British and Irish forum has never worked and maybe it's time for the Irish contingent to demand their own forum. Thay way, all three of them can eventually agree that Lee is black, a southpaw and good.

bennie wrote:Personally, I feel that combining the British and Irish forum has never worked and maybe it's time for the Irish contingent to demand their own forum. Thay way, all three of them can eventually agree that Lee is black, a southpaw and good.

Diddums! Actually why not just chat puerile nonsence and I am show we can all get along. If that doesnt work then I have another suggestion!

bennie wrote:Personally, I feel that combining the British and Irish forum has never worked and maybe it's time for the Irish contingent to demand their own forum. Thay way, all three of them can eventually agree that Lee is black, a southpaw and good.

Asterix wrote:A fight with Duddy has lost a lot of its appeal now, with Duddy losing so convincingly to Chavez Jr. A rematch with Vera will be nice for Lee to move forwards, knowing he has beaten everyone put in front of him. But really he should be facing a higher calibre of opponent now.

Most Irish fight fans would love to see Duddy and Lee fight. A good Limerick v Derry clash I will head over to the US to see that fight (hopefully work permitting). I realise for non-irish boxing fans, the fight does not hold the same appeal for the reasons you have pointed out

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Deserter wrote:

slapbangwhallop wrote: "What I find far more bizarre than my position is your utter refusal to look at Lee's stagnation through anything other than shamrock-tinted glasses"

Can you justify any of that sentance? Its about as justifiable as if I said British posters "Lee-hating" is based on their anti-Irish prejudice! Actually less justifiable.

Yes, it's perfectly easy to justify all of it. You have a self-acknowledged bias towards Irish fighters and that on occasion skews your perspective, hence the 'tinted' reference. What exactly is contentious about that statement? I'm certainly biased towards certain fighters at times, whether that's on the basis of nationality, style or personality, as we all are, so why the dramatic reaction from your side?

Unfortunately you illustrate your irrational bias yet again in attempting to justify Lee spending two vital years of his career in the boxing 'wilderness', both metaphorically and physically. The difference between us is most of us knocking the way Lee's career is being handled attempt to offer informed critiques (Asterix's post is right on the money by the way), while you make ludicrous claims that fighting body-bags in tank-towns in the mid-West is the right way to manage Lee's career.Oh, I feel obliged to mention that the great irony in all of this is that my father was from Athlone and I grew up idolising the likes of McGuigan and Dave 'Boy' McAauley, and have gone on to root for the likes of Steve Collins. Have I on occasion been guilty of looking at them more favourably because of their nationality? Possibly. But where we differ, is that while I'm proud of those roots, I don't allow them to blind me...

Enough talking out of your arse and back the three of those bollocks statements up with links to posts.

We can all back bullshít up if we want.

What about the time you said that you said that Calzaghe was one of the top ten fighters ever - was that not biased??

Asterix wrote:

slapbangwhallop wrote:Would you rather him sit around scratching his gash doing nothing until a world title fight falls on his lap?

Of course not, and you're missing the point that some of us are trying to make. Lee shouldn't be fighting guys rated between 30-100 in the World. He should be fighting top 25 boxers at this stage, in between easier fights if he wants to stay busy.

If he continues to fight boxers at a lower level, when he finally does step up (at World class level) it will be much harder for him to win.

so you dont think that Vera is a step up from the last few guys he has been fighting? or Duddy a further step up?

FeargalóCuinneagáin wrote:

Asterix wrote:A fight with Duddy has lost a lot of its appeal now, with Duddy losing so convincingly to Chavez Jr. A rematch with Vera will be nice for Lee to move forwards, knowing he has beaten everyone put in front of him. But really he should be facing a higher calibre of opponent now.

Most Irish fight fans would love to see Duddy and Lee fight. A good Limerick v Derry clash I will head over to the US to see that fight (hopefully work permitting). I realise for non-irish boxing fans, the fight does not hold the same appeal for the reasons you have pointed out

That's it.

slapbangwhallop wrote:

Asterix wrote:

slapbangwhallop wrote:Would you rather him sit around scratching his gash doing nothing until a world title fight falls on his lap?

Of course not, and you're missing the point that some of us are trying to make. Lee shouldn't be fighting guys rated between 30-100 in the World. He should be fighting top 25 boxers at this stage, in between easier fights if he wants to stay busy.

If he continues to fight boxers at a lower level, when he finally does step up (at World class level) it will be much harder for him to win.

so you dont think that Vera is a step up from the last few guys he has been fighting? or Duddy a further step up?

Well of course Vera's a step up over the last few guys. Lee has been fighting nobodies for the last 4 fights. Why he went from Belghecham to them I'll never know.

Asterix wrote:

FeargalóCuinneagáin wrote:

Asterix wrote:A fight with Duddy has lost a lot of its appeal now, with Duddy losing so convincingly to Chavez Jr. A rematch with Vera will be nice for Lee to move forwards, knowing he has beaten everyone put in front of him. But really he should be facing a higher calibre of opponent now.

Most Irish fight fans would love to see Duddy and Lee fight. A good Limerick v Derry clash I will head over to the US to see that fight (hopefully work permitting). I realise for non-irish boxing fans, the fight does not hold the same appeal for the reasons you have pointed out

That's it.

slapbangwhallop wrote:

Asterix wrote: Of course not, and you're missing the point that some of us are trying to make. Lee shouldn't be fighting guys rated between 30-100 in the World. He should be fighting top 25 boxers at this stage, in between easier fights if he wants to stay busy.

If he continues to fight boxers at a lower level, when he finally does step up (at World class level) it will be much harder for him to win.

so you dont think that Vera is a step up from the last few guys he has been fighting? or Duddy a further step up?

Well of course Vera's a step up over the last few guys. Lee has been fighting nobodies for the last 4 fights. Why he went from Belghecham to them I'll never know.

So you acknowledge that he is stepping up.

Maybe he took those fights to stay busy and because the likes of Barker ducked him. Yes, Barker ducked him, I know a lot of guys on here like to polish his walloper but I find it very interesting the level of abuse that Lee gets and the praise that Barker gets. Lee hammered Belgacham, Lee offered to fight Barker for the EBU title, Barker fought Belgacham.

There is a difference in skulking away from a challenge and keeping busy.

slapbangwhallop wrote: Enough talking out of your arse and back the three of those bollocks statements up with links to posts.

We can all back bullshít up if we want.

What about the time you said that you said that Calzaghe was one of the top ten fighters ever - was that not biased??

I genuinely find this utterly remarkable Are you really trying to say you aren't biased towards Irish fighters? Just your comments regarding Lee are sufficient proof of that, but even if I leave that aside I struggle to think of a single member of this forum that will find that claim remotely plausible.
And the only backing up of bullshit going on at the moment is you trying to justify Andy Lee's 'career' path over the past 18 months and the forthcoming six months.
As for the Calzaghe comment, I genuinely don't recollect it and if you were asking me that question directly I certainly don't regard him as one of the top 10 fighters of all time (indeed I'd put modern-day greats like Pacquaio and Mayweather above him before even getting into the likes of Robinson, Armstrong, Duran and Leonard).
However, I'm certainly biased towards Calzaghe as I've been a fan for a long time. However, that didn't stop me from believing that Hopkins outpointed him narrowly or going on the record regarding my dismay at some of his match-making.
But, returning to the original scenario, are you really taking issue with my belief that you're biased towards Irish fighters? Honestly...?!

Deserter wrote:

slapbangwhallop wrote: Enough talking out of your arse and back the three of those bollocks statements up with links to posts.

We can all back bullshít up if we want.

What about the time you said that you said that Calzaghe was one of the top ten fighters ever - was that not biased??

I genuinely find this utterly remarkable Are you really trying to say you aren't biased towards Irish fighters? Just your comments regarding Lee are sufficient proof of that, but even if I leave that aside I struggle to think of a single member of this forum that will find that claim remotely plausible.
And the only backing up of bullshit going on at the moment is you trying to justify Andy Lee's 'career' path over the past 18 months and the forthcoming six months.
As for the Calzaghe comment, I genuinely don't recollect it and if you were asking me that question directly I certainly don't regard him as one of the top 10 fighters of all time (indeed I'd put modern-day greats like Pacquaio and Mayweather above him before even getting into the likes of Robinson, Armstrong, Duran and Leonard).
However, I'm certainly biased towards Calzaghe as I've been a fan for a long time. However, that didn't stop me from believing that Hopkins outpointed him narrowly or going on the record regarding my dismay at some of his match-making.
But, returning to the original scenario, are you really taking issue with my belief that you're biased towards Irish fighters? Honestly...?!

Right, so No quotes, No links, No posts!!! I am tempted to just tell you to fornicate off and believe what you want to believe.

Am I biased in supporting Irish fighters over other nationalities, yes, that is no different to any other person interested in boxing. You dont see the York Hall full of Jocks for a Kevin Mitchell fight, you wont find the O2 arena full of Cockneys for a Bernard Dunne fight and you wont find Paddies packing out the Kelvin Hall for a Ricky Burn fight.

Whilst I am biased in my support of Irish fighters, I am not biased in my analysis of their ability and their careers. There is a MASSIVE difference.

No matter how many "shocked faced" smilies you put on your posts, its still all bollocks! Evidenced by your lack of...er, evidence!

slapbangwhallop wrote:Right, so No quotes, No links, No posts!!! I am tempted to just tell you to fornicate off and believe what you want to believe.

Am I biased in supporting Irish fighters over other nationalities, yes, that is no different to any other person interested in boxing. You dont see the York Hall full of Jocks for a Kevin Mitchell fight, you wont find the O2 arena full of Cockneys for a Bernard Dunne fight and you wont find Paddies packing out the Kelvin Hall for a Ricky Burn fight.

Whilst I am biased in my support of Irish fighters, I am not biased in my analysis of their ability and their careers. There is a MASSIVE difference.

No matter how many "shocked faced" smilies you put on your posts, its still all bollocks! Evidenced by your lack of...er, evidence!

Utterly, utterly bizarre... I point out your bias regarding Irish fighters and you respond asking me for evidence, yet then go on the record to say you are!
The only thing we're therefore actually arguing about is your line regarding your analysis of their ability and their careers, as I think the evidence proves that in Lee's case you are biased and yet you say you're not.
I can only ask you how spending two years in the boxing 'wilderness' in his mid-20s represents good handling of Lee's career? I'm yet to see a coherent argument from you in this regard. Previously you deflected critics by claiming their was some sort of masterplan and all would be revealed, yet that has now been proven to be a fallacy, yet you still refuse to budge an inch - that's either down to bias or down to just sheer bloody-mindedness, whatever it is, it's certainly not logical or rational.

Deserter wrote:

slapbangwhallop wrote:Right, so No quotes, No links, No posts!!! I am tempted to just tell you to fornicate off and believe what you want to believe.

Am I biased in supporting Irish fighters over other nationalities, yes, that is no different to any other person interested in boxing. You dont see the York Hall full of Jocks for a Kevin Mitchell fight, you wont find the O2 arena full of Cockneys for a Bernard Dunne fight and you wont find Paddies packing out the Kelvin Hall for a Ricky Burn fight.

Whilst I am biased in my support of Irish fighters, I am not biased in my analysis of their ability and their careers. There is a MASSIVE difference.

No matter how many "shocked faced" smilies you put on your posts, its still all bollocks! Evidenced by your lack of...er, evidence!

Utterly, utterly bizarre... I point out your bias regarding Irish fighters and you respond asking me for evidence, yet then go on the record to say you are!
The only thing we're therefore actually arguing about is your line regarding your analysis of their ability and their careers, as I think the evidence proves that in Lee's case you are biased and yet you say you're not.

I can only ask you how spending two years in the boxing 'wilderness' in his mid-20s represents good handling of Lee's career? I'm yet to see a coherent argument from you in this regard. Previously you deflected critics by claiming their was some sort of masterplan and all would be revealed, yet that has now been proven to be a fallacy, yet you still refuse to budge an inch - that's either down to bias or down to just sheer bloody-mindedness, whatever it is, it's certainly not logical or rational.

"How utterly, utterly bizarre!" - Whats bizarre is that you cant read a post. Now gather up your coloured wig, makeup, outlandish costume, unusually large footwear, red-nose and do one!

"Previously you deflected critics by claiming their was some sort of masterplan and all would be revealed, yet that has now been proven to be a fallacy" - how has it proven to be a fallacy? Lee has a fight in Germany on a Klitchko undercard, a revenge fight with Vera and a blockbuster with Duddy ALL coming up in the next months. Is this the wilderness you speak of?

You obviously have an issue - here is another thread where you throw abuse at pretty much every Irish poster that posts on this forum. I will let others figure out who talks with bias and who talks with balance! http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127589

slapbangwhallop wrote: You obviously have an issue - here is another thread where you throw abuse at pretty much every Irish poster that posts on this forum. I will let others figure out who talks with bias and who talks with balance! http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127589

I do have an issue - it's with so-called knowledgeable boxing fans who seek to justify 'prospects' fighting victims (because they are nothing more than that) for months on end. These so called fights treat punters with contempt and, almost as importantly, as Asterix touched on earlier, don't do anything for the development of the boxer being matched against these victims.
What's undoubtedly true is that I've been consistent in this approach regardness of the race or nationality of the boxer concerned, whether it's Andy Lee, Zsolt Erdei or a fiasco like the Enzo vs Bobby Gunn match. Consequently, I'll ignore your attempted slur and treat it with the contempt it deserves.
Now get back to your bizarre parallel universe where a world-class prospect being matched with a 40-year-old who has lost his last five fights, four by stoppage, constitutes acceptable match-making. The rest of us will focus on proper boxing

Deserter wrote:

slapbangwhallop wrote: You obviously have an issue - here is another thread where you throw abuse at pretty much every Irish poster that posts on this forum. I will let others figure out who talks with bias and who talks with balance! http://boxrec.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=127589

I do have an issue - it's with so-called knowledgeable boxing fans who seek to justify 'prospects' fighting victims (because they are nothing more than that) for months on end. These so called fights treat punters with contempt and, almost as importantly, as Asterix touched on earlier, don't do anything for the development of the boxer being matched against these victims.
What's undoubtedly true is that I've been consistent in this approach regardness of the race or nationality of the boxer concerned, whether it's Andy Lee, Zsolt Erdei or a fiasco like the Enzo vs Bobby Gunn match. Consequently, I'll ignore your attempted slur and treat it with the contempt it deserves.

Now get back to your bizarre parallel universe where a world-class prospect being matched with a 40-year-old who has lost his last five fights, four by stoppage, constitutes acceptable match-making. The rest of us will focus on proper boxing

You see in all your rage and bile you seem to have forgotten that I have never claimed that these were tough fights. All along I have said that these fight (the ones in 2010 this far) have been little more than glorified sparring sessions. You see I can back this up with proof, by way of links to my posts. Whereas you just rant and rave and behave like a child that has had is bottom smacked!

Have they helped him develop, actually he reckons they have. So I guess, in the end, what you think means fornicate all!

Anyway back to your fantasyland where Lee is somehow out in the wilderness despite having the biggest six months of his career ahead of him!

bennie wrote:Personally, I feel that combining the British and Irish forum has never worked and maybe it's time for the Irish contingent to demand their own forum.

I agree.

sg1985 wrote:Can only British and Irish posters post in here? Or is it available to everyone like how I can post in the Aussie part?

It's open to all mate.

Deserter wrote:I do have an issue - it's with so-called knowledgeable boxing fans who seek to justify 'prospects' fighting victims (because they are nothing more than that) for months on end. These so called fights treat punters with contempt and, almost as importantly, as Asterix touched on earlier, don't do anything for the development of the boxer being matched against these victims.

From the thread on Lee's last fight. Is this by rabid biased defence of Lee based purely on nationality that you speak of??

slapbangwhallop wrote: No actually I think you are missing the point.

He fought two weeks ago, if this was his only fight of the year (or even six months) then fair enough but it aint.

No one is going to defend this fight as a credible contest, that is why I refer to it as a glorified bout of sparring. The only difference is that he pays for his gym sparring but is getting paid for this one.

The only way Troy can win is by knockout, he isnt going to outbox Lee, and poor ould Troy aint had a KO win in 10 years.

His management team have offered Brian Vera a rematch on three separate occasions now - each time for more money than he got fir their first match and more money than he got for taking other subsequent fights in which he was beaten. Lee is also sitting on the subs bench for a world title fight so that hard screams of a lack of confidence.

Of course this isnt going to teach him much new in comparison to a Proska, Pirog or Duddy fight, but every bout is a learning experience and he will be able to take something from it and he is keeping in the gym, keeping fighting and ready for a shot if/when it does drop.

Between March 2008 and March 2009 he only had one fight. I would be more worried about a lack of activity rather than this activity.

slapbangwhallop wrote:

Deserter wrote:I do have an issue - it's with so-called knowledgeable boxing fans who seek to justify 'prospects' fighting victims (because they are nothing more than that) for months on end. These so called fights treat punters with contempt and, almost as importantly, as Asterix touched on earlier, don't do anything for the development of the boxer being matched against these victims.

From the thread on Lee's last fight. Is this by rabid biased defence of Lee based purely on nationality that you speak of??

slapbangwhallop wrote: No actually I think you are missing the point.

He fought two weeks ago, if this was his only fight of the year (or even six months) then fair enough but it aint.

No one is going to defend this fight as a credible contest, that is why I refer to it as a glorified bout of sparring. The only difference is that he pays for his gym sparring but is getting paid for this one.

The only way Troy can win is by knockout, he isnt going to outbox Lee, and poor ould Troy aint had a KO win in 10 years.

His management team have offered Brian Vera a rematch on three separate occasions now - each time for more money than he got fir their first match and more money than he got for taking other subsequent fights in which he was beaten. Lee is also sitting on the subs bench for a world title fight so that hard screams of a lack of confidence.

Of course this isnt going to teach him much new in comparison to a Proska, Pirog or Duddy fight, but every bout is a learning experience and he will be able to take something from it and he is keeping in the gym, keeping fighting and ready for a shot if/when it does drop.

Between March 2008 and March 2009 he only had one fight. I would be more worried about a lack of activity rather than this activity.

And therein lies the heart of our disagreement. Troy wasn't a one-off, he's fought a succession of Troy's - in fact by the time he gets back in the ring with Vera it'll be two years' worth of mismatches.
Unlike you I don't believe every bout is a learning experience - in fact, I think two years of facing bodies can get you into bad habits so you're unprepared both mentally and phyiscally when you step up in levels again.
Critically, you have kept on going down the line that it's better to fight these bodies than fight no-one, as if those are the only choices, but this is simply disenginuous as everyone knows it's perfectly possible to match him tougher than this - there's a huge 'ground' between the 'stiffs' he's been fed and the level he aspires to, and it's 'ground ' that is filled with opponents who would provide proper learning fights. Why won't you acknowledge this?

Deserter wrote:

slapbangwhallop wrote:

Deserter wrote:I do have an issue - it's with so-called knowledgeable boxing fans who seek to justify 'prospects' fighting victims (because they are nothing more than that) for months on end. These so called fights treat punters with contempt and, almost as importantly, as Asterix touched on earlier, don't do anything for the development of the boxer being matched against these victims.

From the thread on Lee's last fight. Is this by rabid biased defence of Lee based purely on nationality that you speak of??

slapbangwhallop wrote: No actually I think you are missing the point.

He fought two weeks ago, if this was his only fight of the year (or even six months) then fair enough but it aint.

No one is going to defend this fight as a credible contest, that is why I refer to it as a glorified bout of sparring. The only difference is that he pays for his gym sparring but is getting paid for this one.

The only way Troy can win is by knockout, he isnt going to outbox Lee, and poor ould Troy aint had a KO win in 10 years.

His management team have offered Brian Vera a rematch on three separate occasions now - each time for more money than he got fir their first match and more money than he got for taking other subsequent fights in which he was beaten. Lee is also sitting on the subs bench for a world title fight so that hard screams of a lack of confidence.

Of course this isnt going to teach him much new in comparison to a Proska, Pirog or Duddy fight, but every bout is a learning experience and he will be able to take something from it and he is keeping in the gym, keeping fighting and ready for a shot if/when it does drop.

Between March 2008 and March 2009 he only had one fight. I would be more worried about a lack of activity rather than this activity.

And therein lies the heart of our disagreement. Troy wasn't a one-off, he's fought a succession of Troy's - in fact by the time he gets back in the ring with Vera it'll be two years' worth of mismatches.
Unlike you I don't believe every bout is a learning experience - in fact, I think two years of facing bodies can get you into bad habits so you're unprepared both mentally and phyiscally when you step up in levels again.
Critically, you have kept on going down the line that it's better to fight these bodies than fight no-one, as if those are the only choices, but this is simply disenginuous as everyone knows it's perfectly possible to match him tougher than this - there's a huge 'ground' between the 'stiffs' he's been fed and the level he aspires to, and it's 'ground ' that is filled with opponents who would provide proper learning fights. Why won't you acknowledge this?

I don't think your comments are fair at all. After the disappointment of the loss to Vera, Andy had a very good win against Willie Gibbs. After a St.Patrick's weekend card fell through one week before the event Andy flew back to Dublin to fight Alexander Sipos at short notice. Sipos prove to be quite durable as he again prove by going the distance against Luis Garcia. Next up was a fight on the undercard of a Klitchko World Title against a reasonable boxer who went the six rounds. Back to America to face Anthony Shuler and home to limerick to face Affif Belghechen, Belghechen is a handful for anyone as was evidenced for the Barker fight. Mamadou Thiam was expected to be an aging but very dangerous opponant but turned out to be a farce. The irish boxing union treatened to withhold his purse. Everyone in Limerick was let down that night but it may have been a case of a boxers career coming to a sad end. The last threee have been a succession of tomato cans, granted, but it was three fights in four months. And lined up for the next four months we have an undercard on a high profile World title, a ESPN televised redemption fight against Vera and a massive Irish showdown with John Duddy most likely in MSG New York. Now thats not bad at all. Andys building his profile and fanbase and if all goes to plan by next April he will be right in the mix for a world title

misticmonk wrote:I don't think your comments are fair at all. After the disappointment of the loss to Vera, Andy had a very good win against Willie Gibbs. After a St.Patrick's weekend card fell through one week before the event Andy flew back to Dublin to fight Alexander Sipos at short notice. Sipos prove to be quite durable as he again prove by going the distance against Luis Garcia. Next up was a fight on the undercard of a Klitchko World Title against a reasonable boxer who went the six rounds. Back to America to face Anthony Shuler and home to limerick to face Affif Belghechen, Belghechen is a handful for anyone as was evidenced for the Barker fight. Mamadou Thiam was expected to be an aging but very dangerous opponant but turned out to be a farce. The irish boxing union treatened to withhold his purse. Everyone in Limerick was let down that night but it may have been a case of a boxers career coming to a sad end. The last threee have been a succession of tomato cans, granted, but it was three fights in four months. And lined up for the next four months we have an undercard on a high profile World title, a ESPN televised redemption fight against Vera and a massive Irish showdown with John Duddy most likely in MSG New York. Now thats not bad at all. Andys building his profile and fanbase and if all goes to plan by next April he will be right in the mix for a world title

Firstly, thank you for at least putting forward a coherent argument.
I think it all depends on your view of Lee's potential - if he's got world-class potential, then two years on that conveyor belt you've illustrated above is not good career movement in my opinion - the likes of Gibbs, Sipos and Schuler were all coming in against him having a run of losses against their name.
Moving forwards, I think he'll be 'lost' on the undercard on that world title show rather than benefiting from the exposure, so ultimately we're talking about him facing Vera again two years on from the original fight without having moved in career terms in the interim - he's effectively been treading water.
I also fail to see how the type of matches you've illustrated above have really helped build his profile and fanbase? Lee is immensely marketable, and should be far more prominent as a result. Again, I'm not singling out Lee in this regard, for example, I think Froch's management team have been woeful in building his fanbase and profile.

I couldn't be bothered to check the record but I'm pretty sure Gibbs wasn't coming off a run of losses, and could even have been unbeaten...

On this:

Now get back to your bizarre parallel universe where a world-class prospect being matched with a 40-year-old who has lost his last five fights, four by stoppage, constitutes acceptable match-making. The rest of us will focus on proper boxing

I agree!
One or two total bums is acceptable (sadly) but to fight four or five in succession stinks.

ApolloCreed wrote:I couldn't be bothered to check the record but I'm pretty sure Gibbs wasn't coming off a run of losses, and could even have been unbeaten...

On this:

Now get back to your bizarre parallel universe where a world-class prospect being matched with a 40-year-old who has lost his last five fights, four by stoppage, constitutes acceptable match-making. The rest of us will focus on proper boxing

I agree!
One or two total bums is acceptable (sadly) but to fight four or five in succession stinks.

Gibbs was coming off a run of 2 losses. Nothing wrong with the Gibbs fight or the Belghecham one. The ones in between are a shame though.

If LEE V VERA takes off it should give LEE some credit from those that says he is washed up,to beat the only boxer that beat you deserves praise,and then onward and upward with full backing!!!!!!,as a matter of intrest where would this fight be staged?

dutchie wrote:If LEE V VERA takes off it should give LEE some credit from those that says he is washed up

I wasn't aware anyone had actually said he was 'washed up'. Who are the people you are talking about?

Deserter wrote:

dutchie wrote:If LEE V VERA takes off it should give LEE some credit from those that says he is washed up

I wasn't aware anyone had actually said he was 'washed up'. Who are the people you are talking about?

The English