BoxRec

taffytoon wrote:So what split would you have Clev V Braehmer Stu?

Split???? Sorry not sure what you mean.... is this betting terminology?

stujones wrote:

taffytoon wrote:So what split would you have Clev V Braehmer Stu?

Split???? Sorry not sure what you mean.... is this betting terminology?

No, he meant the percentage you would favour either dude -- i.e. you said that a certain promoter puts on mega-bills with loads of 70-30 fights sold as 50-50.

BTW, I agree totally with what you said in that post (the 13:57 one). Totally.

stujones wrote:At the moment outside of the geniune big fights at Light Heavy (Hopkins, Pascal and Dawson) the European/Domestic level competition is much more well known at Welter. I feel Brook vs M Hatton would be dupped a main event over say Clev against Bellew or McIntosh 2.

You could be right. I didn't get the impression Brook was as popular as Cleverly though, so I thought the idea of Cleverly being main support for Brook on a regular basis to be unlikely.

stujones wrote:Lets hope they both continue to win against the very best, but if Clev lost to Hopkins and/or Brook lost to Pacquiao - how could FW promote their rehabiliation as PPV's. Khan's PPV's did terrible figures and he was a well known fighter.

Couldn't he rehabilitate them by putting them on the undercard of his other top fighters' bills? As long as only one of his main fighters loses a fight, he will still have his other fighters to keep interest in his bills while the losers regain credibility.

stujones wrote:To keep these so called Mega events, 70:30 fights being dubbed 50:50, alive the British boys have got to keep winning, and too guarenteed to keep winning... they've got to face not the elite.

My god I hope I am wrong, but history doesn't support it. Look what has happened to the career of Nicky Cook when he got upset.

I don't have high expectations for Cleverly's title run if he beats Braehmer, but if Cleverly wants the big fights then Warren will have to try to keep him happy, so hopefully it won't be as bad as one might imagine.

Braehmer 'the 100 year talent' as he was first known is very beatable nowadays. That does not make him a joke, far from it. He is 6-1 at Light Heavyweight with about 5 coming by knockout.

They have a recent common opponent. In 2009 Braehmer flattened Brancalion injust over a minute. Clev stopped him in 5 rounds.

He struggles with busy fighters, as evident when Hugo Garay kept him at bay with flurries. That said, Garay had to absorb some heavy left hands around the guard that shook him a few times. Garay is a stocky type with a thick neck and this stood him well against his clubbing left hooks.

He tends to fight on the outside, but isn't afraid to mix it up in the middle either. Both of his defeats have occured when his head's gone. Against Veit he is was completely flat and 1 dimensional, but savaged him in the rematch. Against Garay he plodded about and was out gamed and out worked - basically he was short of ideas and had court cases flying around.

He's under 6 foot tall and so Clev will have the height and reach advantage. I cant see Clev knocking him out because Juergen has a solid chin.

Clev without doubt needs home advantage, to box and not brawl and a big sprinkle of luck to win.

It's a legit fight definitely. One Clev can win, but can also lose.

Datsue wrote:

stujones wrote:

taffytoon wrote:So what split would you have Clev V Braehmer Stu?

Split???? Sorry not sure what you mean.... is this betting terminology?

No, he meant the percentage you would favour either dude -- i.e. you said that a certain promoter puts on mega-bills with loads of 70-30 fights sold as 50-50.

BTW, I agree totally with what you said in that post (the 13:57 one). Totally.

Oh okay,

Well its a tough one to call - cause of the experience factor. If the fight was in Germany I think it would be hellish risk. I would actually say it would be 60:40 (possibly a tad more in favour of Brahmer, who has a good chin).

In the UK, I think it would be a calculated 50:50 fight..... similar to Smith vs Degale, which many couldn't really split. Clev doesn't have the world experience of Brahmer, but for me has the style, speed and talent to beat him.

There are still some big "what if's" with Clev, Brahmer is proven at a certain level. He is a solid world champion, never going to be remotely near the P4P rankings and can be a tad inconsistent, but is solid.

Clev really should have the size, strength, speed, engine and desire to win in the UK - but like with Degale vs Smith - until they actually do it, we cannot say for sure.

My prediction is, sadly, that it will Brahmer vs Mr Long name for the WBA title alone. It must have been good money for him to go travelling, and the UK is as bad as anywhere now for home town officiating.

Its a good fight, and I'm begging that it happens.

I very much agree with Gomez - although would go a step further and say in the UK - Clev SHOULD win, but I don't know enough about Clev at world level to say for sure.

Murat was a very solid fighter, and a very good win.... Clev deserves his #1 ranking - please don't get me wrong, Taffytoon. I hope it can be delivered.

As you can probably tell, I'm getting slowly cheesed off at these UK PPV's.

Horse some good points, I do politely disagree on the last one though.

The reason why they have been a million title fights on these two recent UK PPV's is because of the lack of "stars" in the stable.

Degale is promising, Gavin is promising - but both someway off world honours. Probably a least a year of EBU title fights (Both capable, but I think it will be wise just to consolidate them).

Do you really think Sky will want a PPV headlined by a British title fight with rehabiliation fight/s on the undercard?

I think the lack of "stars" has resulted in an influx in these "power by numbers" approach to the PPV's and have a million title fights, dubbed as 50:50, on the bill.

If you had a Ricky Hatton, or a David Haye then you wouldn't need a cracking undercard or an undercard full of titles - but FW has no-one remotely close to their level (yet) or popularity, so can get PPV's by bulk.

orbtastic wrote:

Final round wrote:I dunno Taffy never seen Braehmer fight... what are his strengths compared to Cleverley's?

His strength and power are his main assets. He has a decent chin but can be a bit of a plodder. He's pretty relentless. Think of a much bigger and more aggressive Sebastian Sylvester.

Thanks for the description Orb, I like the sound of a fight between him and Cleverley

its a fight that allegedly has to show his faith in cleverly by making sure and paying the german well to bring him over here

Thanks Stu so we can look forward to a 50:50 legit title fight with the best man winning (hope to god it'd clev)

taffytoon wrote:Thanks Stu so we can look forward to a 50:50 legit title fight with the best man winning (hope to god it'd clev)

Absolutely - its a good fight that is no doubt. For me, for an "at the time" fight its more worthy than Froch vs Pascal was - Brahmer is far more proven than Pascal was AT THE TIME.

Leigt title fight all right - lets pray it happens, and lets hope if successful, we get some nice defences.

Clev vs Froch a couple years down the line has got me salivating!.

I hope Cleverly wins this but Braemer has all the experience and Clev hasn't really and he's not fought this kind of calibre imho. Experience should win this one imo, let's hope Jurgen has one of his 'odd' nights out as that's Nathan's best chance.

This is great news, if it comes off.

A genuine World title fight against a live opponent for one of the so-called next generation of Brits. Cleverley impresses me a lot and I don't read too much into the Mohammedi performance (late change of opponent, completely different in style to Lakatos). Braehmer is beatable, but dangerous and Cleverley will have to put in the best performance of his career to date to ensure a win.

Not sure why there is so much negativity around Clevs future defences of a title he is yet to win from a match up that is yet to be signed! I guess Froch's crazy run of top level opposition has raised the stakes and unless Clev fights Braehmer followed, at 3 month intervals by Pascal, Dawson, Shumenov, Cloud, Hopkins and Froch he'll be summarily dismissed as fighting nothing but tomato cans.

earsjohn wrote:This is great news, if it comes off.

A genuine World title fight against a live opponent for one of the so-called next generation of Brits. Cleverley impresses me a lot and I don't read too much into the Mohammedi performance (late change of opponent, completely different in style to Lakatos). Braehmer is beatable, but dangerous and Cleverley will have to put in the best performance of his career to date to ensure a win.

Not sure why there is so much negativity around Clevs future defences of a title he is yet to win from a match up that is yet to be signed! I guess Froch's crazy run of top level opposition has raised the stakes and unless Clev fights Braehmer followed, at 3 month intervals by Pascal, Dawson, Shumenov, Cloud, Hopkins and Froch he'll be summarily dismissed as fighting nothing but tomato cans.

Just growing sceptical, and its not to do with Clev personally who I think is an excellent fighter - not many 23 year olds fight like he did against Murat.....showed bottle and fantastic man strength for someone so young. Just look at 2 of the 4 champions we have currently. Their title reign is boring me. Look at how Alex Arthur defended his WBO title, Look at Joe Calzaghe..... I think its not just old age, there is a vald reason for the scepticism.... but I do hold my hands up and say "I should wait and see first".

Most on here seemed to think the Mag 7 bill was the best thing that has happened in British boxing for a while. I disagree, and I fear it could be a growing trend. It was sound match making and good promotion.

stujones wrote:

earsjohn wrote:This is great news, if it comes off.

A genuine World title fight against a live opponent for one of the so-called next generation of Brits. Cleverley impresses me a lot and I don't read too much into the Mohammedi performance (late change of opponent, completely different in style to Lakatos). Braehmer is beatable, but dangerous and Cleverley will have to put in the best performance of his career to date to ensure a win.

Not sure why there is so much negativity around Clevs future defences of a title he is yet to win from a match up that is yet to be signed! I guess Froch's crazy run of top level opposition has raised the stakes and unless Clev fights Braehmer followed, at 3 month intervals by Pascal, Dawson, Shumenov, Cloud, Hopkins and Froch he'll be summarily dismissed as fighting nothing but tomato cans.

Just growing sceptical, and its not to do with Clev personally who I think is an excellent fighter - not many 23 year olds fight like he did against Murat.....showed bottle and fantastic man strength for someone so young. Just look at 2 of the 4 champions we have currently. Their title reign is boring me. Look at how Alex Arthur defended his WBO title, Look at Joe Calzaghe..... I think its not just old age, there is a vald reason for the scepticism.... but I do hold my hands up and say "I should wait and see first".

Most on here seemed to think the Mag 7 bill was the best thing that has happened in British boxing for a while. I disagree, and I fear it could be a growing trend. It was sound match making and good promotion.

I think the general cynicism has riled me. We could be on the cusp of a truly immense era in British boxing, yet most people just seem to want to moan. Boxing isn't perfect, never has been. Fight fans seem to remember a Utopia of the best fighting the best week in, week out. But our minds are clearly being made hazy with the passage of time. I agree, no-one wants to see a title reign similar to Calzaghes early years, but was that maybe the exception rather than the rule?

Is a Haye run of Mormeck, Maccarinelli, Barrett, Valuev, Ruiz, Harrison, Chagaev, Klitschko (i'm an optimist) really that disgraceful? What about Khan (since defeat - Fagan, Barrera, Kotelnik, Salita, Malignaggi, Maidana, McCloskey, Bradley)? Are these notably worse than the run of opponents Lennox Lewis had when reaching World level (Ruddock, Tucker, Bruno, Jackson, McCall (L), Butler, Fortune)? (Note the difference between reaching World Level as Khan and Haye have in recent years rather than the run that Lewis went on when he'd established at the top of his division for a number of years)

Haye does Chag and either Klitchsko then I would be chuffed... Chag is good fight.

Khan and Froch were the two fighters who I am impressed with. Burns and Haye need to step up very shortly.

My growing synasicm has been growing for a number of years - I don't see it improving to be honest. And believe me at the time I was critical of Lewis - although please bare in mind the politics etc, plus there was a defeat in there. So fighting WBC #1 contender and dangerman Butler as a rehabiliation is alot better than Fagin.

We've had some fantastic fights over the years - Haye has done the business (needs to up it now though), Froch has done the business, Hatton's opponents were fantastic - again having Lazcano as a rehab fight was pretty impressive, and Khan is now doing the business..... what connects all these fighters though? And who is doing these massive multi event PPV's "extraveganzers". Dubbed as 50:50 but thus far I think the vast majority have got 100% of in fight picks... I have for sure.

What about the world title reign of Alex Arthur? Look how long it took for Joe to face a fighter who looked on paper to possibly dethroning him. Again a common theme for them, that isn't for the fighters mentioned above.

I don't understand much German, but Braemer reminds me a little of Graciano Rocci - At least personality wise.

orbtastic wrote:I don't understand much German, but Braemer reminds me a little of Graciano Rocci - At least personality wise.

Graciano Rocchigiani! There's a name to conjure with! Didn't he go away for white slave trading or something equally exotic?

EDIT: No, apparently he did not. Did I hallucinate that, then? I'm sure a German boxer had previous in that ball-park, if not actually for something that interesting.

orbtastic wrote:I don't understand much German, but Braemer reminds me a little of Graciano Rocci - At least personality wise.

He looks like matt dawson the ex england rugby union international!Find a pic of dawson then compare it to braehmer,i swear they're related!lol

Datsue wrote:

orbtastic wrote:I don't understand much German, but Braemer reminds me a little of Graciano Rocci - At least personality wise.

Graciano Rocchigiani! There's a name to conjure with! Didn't he go away for white slave trading or something equally exotic?

EDIT: No, apparently he did not. Did I hallucinate that, then? I'm sure a German boxer had previous in that ball-park, if not actually for something that interesting.

He saw some slammer time due to some sort of taxi driver fist altercation type thing, if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah Braehmer looks like Dawson, or at least he did before Dawson finally admitted he was bald and got his head shaved.

Good fight. Sort of reminds me of a sort of European title fight standard back in the 70's.

taffytoon wrote:

Autobarn wrote:let's say cleverly wins the title. i don't expect loads of great matchups in defense of the WBO title. i hope nobody's salivating. his title fights will probably be like the last one, on the bumper "world title" bill PPV.

i know stujones will be pleaed if cleverly challenges a champion, rather than getting vacant title fights. cleverly deserves his shot after that riveting eliminator fight with murat. i just think it'll be as frustrating as it was in the calzaghe era; reckon there'll be lots of messy fights vs guys we've not heard of before.

I can guarantee you Nathan WILL try to unify the LH titles, Whether his camp can make them is another thing.

Mr Bellew I agree with you 100% (for a change ) Also traveling up to see your fight, am I still allowed to say hello or not

i would take that as a no if i was you

jessi wrote:

taffytoon wrote:

Autobarn wrote:let's say cleverly wins the title. i don't expect loads of great matchups in defense of the WBO title. i hope nobody's salivating. his title fights will probably be like the last one, on the bumper "world title" bill PPV.

i know stujones will be pleaed if cleverly challenges a champion, rather than getting vacant title fights. cleverly deserves his shot after that riveting eliminator fight with murat. i just think it'll be as frustrating as it was in the calzaghe era; reckon there'll be lots of messy fights vs guys we've not heard of before.

I can guarantee you Nathan WILL try to unify the LH titles, Whether his camp can make them is another thing.

Mr Bellew I agree with you 100% (for a change ) Also traveling up to see your fight, am I still allowed to say hello or not

i would take that as a no if i was you

Lucky you're not me

As long as this one aint in Birmingham I doubt Frankie would be in a hurry to bring his golden boy back to the second city in a hurry