BoxRec

Carnera was a good fighter........ words you seldom see together....like


Hand me that piano....

dempseyfire wrote:Carnera, who despite boxbuzz's unbacked assertions that his whole career was fixed (while the facts say differently) was a very good fighter, was far better than Valuev.

Never said his whole career was fixed....but enough of it was fixed in order to "solve problems" along the way.

He sucked, eyes can tell that tale. A Rahman would have beat carnera to a pulp.

Are you going to believe your lyin' eyes?

If someone tells you that Primo is good, it's best to just "go along".

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He sucked, eyes can tell that tale. A Rahman would have beat carnera to a pulp.

No way, IMO. Rahman was absolutely awful. He & Carnera are a match for one another.

Rock was far from brilliant, but he had an excellent jab. More than enough to handle Carnera with.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rock was far from brilliant, but he had an excellent jab. More than enough to handle Carnera with.

Absolutely. He also had a good right hand to follow that jab and more skills than Carnera. Carnera was good at nothing but being big. He was absolutley horrible. I have heard some people say that he is now underrated, but that is bs. The video is there and the guy flatted out sucked---much more so than Rahman, imo.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He sucked, eyes can tell that tale. A Rahman would have beat carnera to a pulp.

Agreed!
Carnera was a lumbering clown. I don't know how any one could think otherwise.
It's quite rare that you are correct, and on that score you are.

Carnera could at least keep himself in some semblance of God damn shape. Rahman's fat ass couldn't even manage that.

No way does someone like Rahman coast past Carnera.

You're right the film is there:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYp_OqrK ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z7ery3AH6Y (fight starts at 9:15)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzeY4udtFQg


Carnera had a fairly quick jab, fast feet for a 265-270 lb man, could put combinations together on the inside, including a nice uppercut, and also had excellent stamina. Rahman was an average plodder with nothing but a decent jab (never saw his fairly slow left to be the 'great Liston jab' people seemed to proclaim it was) and a right hand anyone could see from a mile away. Carnera, who fought in a career of much quicker and more skilled heavyweights, would be able to easily evade Rahman's punches, and then he'd just wear Rahman out over the course of a fight.

Anyone who (legitimately) beats Jim Maloney, Art Lasky, Jack Gross, Paulino Uzcudun, Jack Sharkey, Tommy Loughran and Ernie Shaeff does not 'suck' by any means.

I think demps is a little closer to reality here. If Carnera were fighting today everybody would be saying that he "was quick and athletic, unlike the bigger old time HWs". He tended to be an arm puncher, but the same thing could be said for most HWs fighting today as well. His jab was pretty good, and he had much better foot movement than Rahman, who fought like his feet were in concrete.

Rahman would pitch a virtual shutout against Carnera. Comical to put those two together and say Rock is the one with the footwork issues. Primo would make Hasim look like a ballerina. Easy nights work.

If Primo was fighting today, he would be another Ray Austin.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rahman would pitch a virtual shutout against Carnera. Comical to put those two together and say Rock is the one with the footwork issues. Primo would make Hasim look like a ballerina. Easy nights work.

If Primo was fighting today, he would be another Ray Austin.

Interesting. I don't recall The Rock showing foot movement of any kind besides plodding. Could you point me to a good example? (Serious question, BTW)

I thought Carnera showed pretty good movement against Louis. In fact, it was his foot movement that kept him upright for as he long as he lasted. Have you seen that fight?

Well I'll grant that it was Carnera's feet that kept him in the game vs Baer as well. Though his face was where his feet should have been for much of the fight.

BoxBuzz wrote:Well I'll grant that it was Carnera's feet that kept him in the game vs Baer as well. Though his face was where his feet should have been for much of the fight.

Well, his defense and did chin let him down in that one. Of course, when he was upright he actually performed OK in that fight. At least until he got hit again.

BoxBuzz wrote:Well I'll grant that it was Carnera's feet that kept him in the game vs Baer as well. Though his face was where his feet should have been for much of the fight.

People always remember the first two rds of the Baer fight with Carnera stumbling and falling all over the place. What they fail to mention is that Carnera badly sprained his ankle after the first KD and that affected his balance the rest of the fight. And Carnera even came back and won most of the middle rounds of that fight. To suggest Rahman could beat Carnera is laughable . . Rahman couldn't keep up with the rough inside game of blown-up cruiser John Ruiz, with the freakishly strong Carnera laying on him and landing hooks an uppercuts Hasim won't see the 12th round.

The Great John L wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rahman would pitch a virtual shutout against Carnera. Comical to put those two together and say Rock is the one with the footwork issues. Primo would make Hasim look like a ballerina. Easy nights work.

If Primo was fighting today, he would be another Ray Austin.

Interesting. I don't recall The Rock showing foot movement of any kind besides plodding. Could you point me to a good example? (Serious question, BTW)

I thought Carnera showed pretty good movement against Louis. In fact, it was his foot movement that kept him upright for as he long as he lasted. Have you seen that fight?

Rahman moved well in the first Tua fight before the sucker punch. I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with your statement on Rock being plodding, just not compared to Primo. Rahman was a good athlete. I've also met him several times and he is very cool, so I do have some bias. But beating Lewis, Sanders & in reality Tua twice & toney isn't the worst results in the world.

Yes, I've seen Primo against Joe. He looked like a clumsy oaf to me. I wouldn't argue if somebody called him the worst of them all.

dempseyfire wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Well I'll grant that it was Carnera's feet that kept him in the game vs Baer as well. Though his face was where his feet should have been for much of the fight.

People always remember the first two rds of the Baer fight with Carnera stumbling and falling all over the place. What they fail to mention is that Carnera badly sprained his ankle after the first KD and that affected his balance the rest of the fight. And Carnera even came back and won most of the middle rounds of that fight. To suggest Rahman could beat Carnera is laughable . . Rahman couldn't keep up with the rough inside game of blown-up cruiser John Ruiz, with the freakishly strong Carnera laying on him and landing hooks an uppercuts Hasim won't see the 12th round.

I'm not suggesting anything, I'm stating that Rahman would beat Carnera and he would do it easily. Ruiz would beat him too, so that's an irrelevant point to me.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rahman moved well in the first Tua fight before the sucker punch. I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with your statement on Rock being plodding, just not compared to Primo. Rahman was a good athlete. I've also met him several times and he is very cool, so I do have some bias. But beating Lewis, Sanders & in reality Tua twice & toney isn't the worst results in the world.

Yes, I've seen Primo against Joe. He looked like a clumsy oaf to me. I wouldn't argue if somebody called him the worst of them all.

Hmm.

IMHO the movement that Rahman showed in the first Tua fight wouldn't have allowed him to survive the first round against Louis.

I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree on this one, because I think Tua and Rahman are painfully slow relative to the movement and handspeed shown in Louis-Carnera.

The Great John L wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Rahman moved well in the first Tua fight before the sucker punch. I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with your statement on Rock being plodding, just not compared to Primo. Rahman was a good athlete. I've also met him several times and he is very cool, so I do have some bias. But beating Lewis, Sanders & in reality Tua twice & toney isn't the worst results in the world.

Yes, I've seen Primo against Joe. He looked like a clumsy oaf to me. I wouldn't argue if somebody called him the worst of them all.

Hmm.

IMHO the movement that Rahman showed in the first Tua fight wouldn't have allowed him to survive the first round against Louis.

I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree on this one, because I think Tua and Rahman are painfully slow relative to the movement and handspeed shown in Louis-Carnera.

I wouldn't expect Rahman to last more than a round or two against Louis. That's a much taller building, pun intended, to scale than Primo Carnera.

Agree to disagree is fine with me. However you look at it we are talking about two of the worst champions ever.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Agree to disagree is fine with me. However you look at it we are talking about two of the worst champions ever.

I certainly agree with that statement.

Scottrf wrote:Carnera was better than Marvin Hart. I think he gets put down too harsly because of his mob ties, but he won the title on merit.

Marvin Hart did beat Jack Johnson though, so he couldn't of been that bad

Old bones Ian wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Carnera was better than Marvin Hart. I think he gets put down too harsly because of his mob ties, but he won the title on merit.

Marvin Hart did beat Jack Johnson though, so he couldn't of been that bad

Carnera had notable wins himself. The referee for Johnson vs Hart clearly disapproved of Johnson's tactics as a boxer, and from the sounds of it Hart would have had to be knocked out for Jack to get the win. The reports I've read have Johnson administering a boxing lesson for the majority of the fight, with Marvin coming into his own later in the fight. A lot of the papers called it a robbery, and he seems to have got the decision almost wholly on aggression. But yes, to even hold his own would suggest at least a determination and moderate level of skill.

I brought this conversation p in the pub last night and a lot of lads brought up Pinklon Thomas and Mike Weaver.