BoxRec

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I guess Joe Louis should be ranked the fourth or fifth best HW ever. That's all his level of opposition merits, since that's purely our basis for assessment now.

Hmmm, let's see. Louis beat Schmeling, Sharkey, Baer (both of them), Carnera, Uzcudun, Braddock, Pastor, Conn, Godoy, Walcott... Forget it, this is going to take too long.

I know those guys aren't exactly Luis Pires and Miguel Paez, but they were all pretty good.

People say Prime Tyson was overrated....

Just because he was one of the most popular boxers of all time, and most of his wins came from destroying his opponent, that does not make him overrated.

He was still undisputed champion, unified the titles, and dominated the late 80s, lot of other HW champions never had the dominance of Tyson but many people still rank them over Tyson.

I thought he was overrated after Prison for winning a title against Bruce Seldon to just lose twice to Holyfield right after it.

I do agree that no other HW champion in history has lost to more underdogs than Tyson (Douglass, Holyfieldx2, Danny Williams, Kevin McBride)

The Great John L wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I guess Joe Louis should be ranked the fourth or fifth best HW ever. That's all his level of opposition merits, since that's purely our basis for assessment now.

Hmmm, let's see. Louis beat Schmeling, Sharkey, Baer (both of them), Carnera, Uzcudun, Braddock, Pastor, Conn, Godoy, Walcott... Forget it, this is going to take too long.

I know those guys aren't exactly Luis Pires and Miguel Paez, but they were all pretty good.

Irene destroyed yet again.

Classic!

stop the humiliation! Don't force me to "moderate" and bring civility back to this discussion. Using knowledge and a firm grasp of factual information in order to belittle others, is inherently unkind. And will only be somewhat tolerated.

I do have a lot of sympathy with John L’s take on Foreman.

He was a formidable fighter but he had glaring weaknesses.

I will say this though… In terms of the second career. Yes, he was carefully matched (but who wanted to see him get smashed up by younger guys?). But if all his second career adds up to is that one punch against the champion of the world then it was still a remarkable career for someone of that age.

..getting back to the topic......gene tunney was underrated for so long that eventually people took another look at his record....and then perhaps he was overrated for a while....i'm not sure where he stands just now....maybe he's just rated.

nice to see collins again .....he makes every other poster here seem underrated.

Seamus wrote:Jersey Joe Walcott. Didn't seem to get much credit when I first started following boxing, but today he's been downright overrated.

I disagree. I think Walcott does not get the credit he deserves. He was an exceptional boxer, and I've been pleased in the past to hear his name emntioned in the same breathas Gene Tunney and Floyd Patterson, each were quick adn clever boxers.

These days I'm not surprised to see him in people's all-time top 15.

As for your statement regarding him being overrated? I don't think that is true, it's not like anyone is putting him in their top 10.

The most overrated Heavyweight of all time in my opinion is Lennox Lewis. I certainly wouldn't put him in my top 10.

Crease wrote:The most overrated Heavyweight of all time in my opinion is Lennox Lewis. I certainly wouldn't put him in my top 10.

Why?

jaclem2 wrote: nice to see collins again .....he makes every other poster here seem underrated.

Oooh, jack, you did me over again.

Wit like yours deserves its own show on the wireless.

jaclem2 wrote:..getting back to the topic......gene tunney was underrated for so long that eventually people took another look at his record....and then perhaps he was overrated for a while....i'm not sure where he stands just now....maybe he's just rated.

nice to see collins again .....he makes every other poster here seem underrated.

" " as they say.

I would not put Lennox Lewis in the top 10.

Some people at the Current Scene are already ranking Wlad as a top five all-time heavyweight. I wonder where they rank Lewis. I think Lewis belongs at the bottom of the top ten. Wlad on the other hand does not belong anywhere close to the top ten heavyweights.

Idisagree wrote:Some people at the Current Scene are already ranking Wlad as a top five all-time heavyweight. I wonder where they rank Lewis. I think Lewis belongs at the bottom of the top ten. Wlad on the other hand does not belong anywhere close to the top ten heavyweights.

I would not put Wlad or Lennox Lewis in the top 10.

Shpati wrote:

Idisagree wrote:Some people at the Current Scene are already ranking Wlad as a top five all-time heavyweight. I wonder where they rank Lewis. I think Lewis belongs at the bottom of the top ten. Wlad on the other hand does not belong anywhere close to the top ten heavyweights.

I would not put Wlad or Lennox Lewis in the top 10.

Why don't you post your top 10? At what place you rate Lewis?

Idisagree wrote:Some people at the Current Scene are already ranking Wlad as a top five all-time heavyweight. I wonder where they rank Lewis. I think Lewis belongs at the bottom of the top ten. Wlad on the other hand does not belong anywhere close to the top ten heavyweights.

Some in Current Scene rate Sam Langford second to Steve Molitor as Canada's greatest fighter ever. It's a wasteland of ignorance.

I recall that TML's rationale for his retarded ranking was something along the lines of "Langford fought like a million years ago."

A lot of the n00bs at Current Scene are wet behind the ears in Boxing knowledge. It's like teaching a child about the progression up until today, it takes a while before they get it, but those who stick around tend to absorb it provided they at least take the "effort" in their interest in boxing to watch some youtube clips and read a bit.

Idisagree wrote:

Shpati wrote:

Idisagree wrote:Some people at the Current Scene are already ranking Wlad as a top five all-time heavyweight. I wonder where they rank Lewis. I think Lewis belongs at the bottom of the top ten. Wlad on the other hand does not belong anywhere close to the top ten heavyweights.

I would not put Wlad or Lennox Lewis in the top 10.

Why don't you post your top 10? At what place you rate Lewis?

I am still working on my top 10. Right now I only got Ali, Joe Louis, and Larry Holmes for sure.

BTW how do you guys rate your top 10? Stats/Title Defenses/Records? Skill? Opponents?

Gerry Cooney fits the bill here. He was known as the Great White Hype/Hope and then got a lot of credit for just taking a beating from Holmes. These days I read a lot of how he is an underrated and skilled fighter. He wasn't, a big guy with a big punch and not much more.

Shpati wrote:

Idisagree wrote:

Shpati wrote: I would not put Wlad or Lennox Lewis in the top 10.

Why don't you post your top 10? At what place you rate Lewis?

I am still working on my top 10. Right now I only got Ali, Joe Louis, and Larry Holmes for sure.

BTW how do you guys rate your top 10? Stats/Title Defenses/Records? Skill? Opponents?

I rate them mostly based on skill couple with whom and how did they beat. I don’t put too much stock on title defenses. Take for example, Wlad. How many title defenses does he have? But again against who? Another example is Samuel Serrano. Meaningless titles fights should not be counted toward ranking a fighter.
Ali, Louis, Holmes, Johnson, Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Dempsey, Tyson, Holyfield, Marciano, and Lewis all have a claim at top 10 depending on who you speak to.

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Shpati wrote:
What about popularity and excitement?

I always thought Ali would not be ranked so high if he was not as popular or exciting in the ring and outside the ring.

Popularity and excitement? You must be kidding!!

I'm out of words for this statement "I always thought Ali would not be ranked so high if he was not as popular or exciting in the ring and outside the ring" Don't know what to tell you. Just a small advice, please educate yourself first and read more about Ali. His resume is arguably the best of any heavyweight in the history of boxing.

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Ali has beaten 3 Heavyweights arguably in the top 10, as well as pretty much every contender in the strongest Heavyweight era. It's nothing to do with popularity, his CV and talent put him number one, or at very least 2 behind Louis.