BoxRec

Glyn Leach wrote: A lot of his current strength depends on Frochy not going down the self-promoted route.

While in the super six though, he kind of is self promoted in all but name isn't he? It is pretty clear to me that the only leverage Hennesey has with Froch is the (exclusive?) Mcracken relationship. All Hennesey seems to do for Froch is book venues (even then he is more often than not fighting on non Hennesey bills) and cock about with rubbish TV deals.

Even during the Fight Camp 360 episodes all he seems to do in the promoter meetings is fiddle nervously with his phone and eat sandwiches! He looks way out of his depth.

Having said that I've been to a lot of Hennesey bills over the years and more often than not they are deep and "traditional" shows. He also seems like a nice bloke, but for whatever reason, his current business model just isn't working.

Glyn Leach wrote:I think Mick is responsible for an improvement of British boxing over recent years — he was the promoter who said no to the crappy titles of the day and concentrated on the traditional British, Commonwealth and European belts .

did he or was it not that he went with them because he went the mandatory route ? ie he couldnt negociate another belt?

simerlar with the WBC.. fighters waiting & waiting for the mandatory

also, with Super SIx.... where he didnt 'match' Froch

thats the way i always saw it !

IMO better to be a longstanding mandatory than claim to be a world champion in a vacant interim world title, because the promoter cannot deliver the champion.

chinny wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote: A lot of his current strength depends on Frochy not going down the self-promoted route.

While in the super six though, he kind of is self promoted in all but name isn't he? It is pretty clear to me that the only leverage Hennesey has with Froch is the (exclusive?) Mcracken relationship. All Hennesey seems to do for Froch is book venues (even then he is more often than not fighting on non Hennesey bills) and cock about with rubbish TV deals.

Even during the Fight Camp 360 episodes all he seems to do in the promoter meetings is fiddle nervously with his phone and eat sandwiches! He looks way out of his depth.

Having said that I've been to a lot of Hennesey bills over the years and more often than not they are deep and "traditional" shows. He also seems like a nice bloke, but for whatever reason, his current business model just isn't working.

Remember, the wiseman isn't always the loudest. Hennessy, despite lack of telly has got neutral ground for Froch and got him legit fight after legit fight....its a slow process when you stick to one route....other promoters and fighters can seem to be making more progress....but truth is, respct and longevity are earned by legit, historic titles like British, European and genuine world (for all I hate WBC). Many of his fighters could have had spurious international, WBU fights and arguably got SKY more interested - at various points - but he stuck to principle and I admire anyone who does that.

I suppose when a fighter gets involved in a TV tournament, as Froch has done, then a lot of his promoter's traditional duties will be put on the backburner as the tournament takes its course. If anything, Showtime is the promoter of Super 6 and the various promoters are, as Chinny suggests, not much more than facilitators for the live shows. They aren't making matches, they aren't negotiating purses, because all that's taken out of their hands.

SS, the crappy titles I was referring to are, as David implies, the likes of the WBU and the Pentacons, which were rotting the scene a few years ago. Mick never went down that route and eventually the other British promoters, by and large, followed suit, even if it was at the behest of Sky. But Hennessy did it of his own volition and I give him credit for that.

Mick Hennessy is/was a fans promoter, he always looks to give the fans value for money by putting even matches on his bills and not excessively padding records, he's definitely been my fave promoter over the past decade. He's sometimes struggled to land the BIG fights for his fighters (other than Froch) which has been his main flaw, due to this he put in alot of effort with the boards (esp WBC) by lobbying to get his fighters into mandatory positions (Froch,Eastman, Witter....) which eventually gave his fighters the title shots.

IMO he was very harshly treated by ITV when they dumped him despite good viewing figures and I believe him and Froch were treated harshly by Sky (although I'm not privy to the negotiations). ITV dropping him was the beginning of the end for Mick, he's been hanging on for grim life since then (putting his fighters on other shows, joint promotions etc.). I really hope Mick can turn this round, but a fairly-BIG time promoter without a TV contract doesn't stand much chance of long term survival in the game.

Hope Mick does well in the future in whatever he does

What other business interests does hennessey have if any? What is his background before promoting?

I think Hennessey will survive if he can hold onto Froch and Fury and still has some decent talent he can rebuild maybe through his deal in Canada hold out until the world ams this year and the olympic and splash a bit of cash getting some top ams. Sky contracts are getting reviewed end of this year Mick could be in with a shout if froch is good viewing on Sky. After all Sky gave hayemaker 4 saturday dates essentially just for Groves to headline Mick is far more deserving of those slots, don't count him out just yet.

wrimc wrote:What other business interests does hennessey have if any? What is his background before promoting?

Does it matter - he is a dam good promoter.

Spud wrote:

wrimc wrote:What other business interests does hennessey have if any? What is his background before promoting?

Does it matter - he is a dam good promoter.

Im more interested now than before Spud's reply.I remember an article a few years ago where they said Mick was "vague" about how he made his cash,which he must have a fair bit of to get into promoting in the way he did.

He was very unlucky with the ITV deal. They pulled out at exactly the wrong moment. If that deal had of run its natural course, Froch would be a household name now, so would have Barker (aside from personal troubles and injuries), and it would have looked like a very shrewd move indeed.

I'm hoping Froch makes it back to England after winning his next two - and I'm hoping Mick Hennessey gets to put a couple of massive bills together at Wembley. Stadium, this time.

Spud wrote:

wrimc wrote:What other business interests does hennessey have if any? What is his background before promoting?

Does it matter - he is a dam good promoter.

He is a cracking promoter completely agree was just wondering out of curiosity really we know a fair bit about Maloney Warren Hearn but very little abut Mick I personally find promoters some of the most interesting characters in boxing.

It makes no difference whatever he made his money in because as you say he is a very good promoter but it would be interesting to hear about where Mick came from and how he got into the game thats all. I heard he was connected to Panos Eliades earlier in the decade but apart from that have heard very little about him or his background would be interested thats all

Spud wrote:

wrimc wrote:What other business interests does hennessey have if any? What is his background before promoting?

Does it matter - he is a dam good promoter.

I don't think he's that good Spud - he's terrible at marketing his fighters, which is one of the key roles of any promoter. Those praising the handling of Froch are also ignoring the risks involving fights in the States, Finland and Denmark - all matches to be applauded from a fan's perspective, but an incredibly high-risk strategy from a business perspective.

People are a little wrong about this ITV deal though..... ITV didn't pull out BEFORE the Super 6. They were still showing other Hennessy bills when the Super 6 started. Their last boxing was in December 2009.

Froch fought Taylor and Dirrell between winning the title and the end of the ITV deal. The issue is was that Taylor was in the states (not promoted by Hennessy) and since he became champion they wanted to renogotiate. Some people might think its a sensible thing to do, others might think it was greedy to try and renogotiate as Froch was a champion.

Sometimes it pays to stick to the same terms cause it could bite you in the foot. I remember Hennessy had a nice little deal going with Sky before he went to ITV

I aint convinced in all of the terrestial TV coverage Froch has had he would ever become a mega star. He's had more coverage than any British boxing in recent years, arguably even more than Eubank and Benn in relation to precentage of fights shown live on terrestial TV. If Froch couldn't become a star before the Super 6, then I aint sure what a 1-1 record of non Terrestial televised fights (remember Dirrell and Taylor were shown on delayed on ITV) does to change that.

People have also implied that Hennessy has been left high and dry after ITV went tits up. Well, he was co-promoter on a few Matchroom shows that were shown on Sky (including Harrison vs Sprott) so its not like he is on particularly bad terms with anyone.

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leforge wrote:How long will Froch stay with him?

is it that much of an issue for froch though?

he has what, 2 more guaranteed premium american TV dates. and if he's out of the super 6, he'll surely get an offer to face bute, another showtime date. froch will probably have had more major TV dates than any british fighter has had in a long time.

Deserter wrote:

Spud wrote:

wrimc wrote:What other business interests does hennessey have if any? What is his background before promoting?

Does it matter - he is a dam good promoter.

I don't think he's that good Spud - he's terrible at marketing his fighters, which is one of the key roles of any promoter. Those praising the handling of Froch are also ignoring the risks involving fights in the States, Finland and Denmark - all matches to be applauded from a fan's perspective, but an incredibly high-risk strategy from a business perspective.

I odnt think he is a bad "promoter" in the literal promoting a prospect sense of the word look what he did with Tyson Fury kept him busy put him in testing and exciting matches. Within the space of 8 fights he was probably one of the msot talked about boxers in Britain. In regards to carl froch yes he was on ITV but it takes more than that to become a name and i feel he never got any favours form ITV in that respect in terms of build up of the end product

wrimc wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Spud wrote: Does it matter - he is a dam good promoter.

I don't think he's that good Spud - he's terrible at marketing his fighters, which is one of the key roles of any promoter. Those praising the handling of Froch are also ignoring the risks involving fights in the States, Finland and Denmark - all matches to be applauded from a fan's perspective, but an incredibly high-risk strategy from a business perspective.

I odnt think he is a bad "promoter" in the literal promoting a prospect sense of the word look what he did with Tyson Fury kept him busy put him in testing and exciting matches. Within the space of 8 fights he was probably one of the msot talked about boxers in Britain. In regards to carl froch yes he was on ITV but it takes more than that to become a name and i feel he never got any favours form ITV in that respect in terms of build up of the end product

I'm not saying he's a bad promoter per se, but marketing is a crucial part of promoting and he is a bad marketeer (or whoever he employs in that capacity is). The problem is that a lot of promoters (and businesses full stop) are primarily focused on short-term returns and view marketing purely as a cost centre rather than recognising the potential benefits.

There is no way he made money on the Wembley show..Good bill,but not a great turn out...He must have lost ££££ on that defo...
He just needs a bit of luck with tv&hopefully sign some top amateurs who wont make it to 2012....Froch wont be about forever&if Fury decides to go elsewhere he has had it!! hes got a few young uns,but Ryder,Goodjohn&the Evangelou brothers are never going to make british title level...

All this nonsense about hennessy being a fans promoter and so forth is exactly that,Nonsense!The same goes for him being this protector of boxing for the paying public and going out of his way to put on competitive fights!The truth is that because in reality he's kinda small time in comparison to warren,maloney,hearn,hatton,etc in regards to tv deals,etc he's been forced into making more competitive fights to stay in the mix!Its been something he's had to do rather than him being a nice guy and caring so much about the fans!I guarantee that if Hennessy had done a better job of promoting froch and made him a bigger name and what have you he would of never of entered him into the super 6!Frcoh has basically been forced into the super 6 because his profile was still small before he entered and thus they had to try everything they possibly could which included putting him in the toughest matches to try and make him a bigger draw and a household name in the uk.

lefty wrote:All this nonsense about hennessy being a fans promoter and so forth is exactly that,Nonsense!The same goes for him being this protector of boxing for the paying public and going out of his way to put on competitive fights!The truth is that because in reality he's kinda small time in comparison to warren,maloney,hearn,hatton,etc in regards to tv deals,etc he's been forced into making more competitive fights to stay in the mix!Its been something he's had to do rather than him being a nice guy and caring so much about the fans!I guarantee that if Hennessy had done a better job of promoting froch and made him a bigger name and what have you he would of never of entered him into the super 6!Frcoh has basically been forced into the super 6 because his profile was still small before he entered and thus they had to try everything they possibly could which included putting him in the toughest matches to try and make him a bigger draw and a household name in the uk.

This is spot on. A promoters job is not to be popular with fans. The most successful UK promoter of the last 30 years is also the most widely reviled by the paying public. But his success is based on building his fighters and making money. Had Froch been on Box Office (as the quality of his last few fights would have dictated under Warren) he'd have made a pile of money and had a higher profile but would have been regarded less by fight fans as he'd have been seen as a sell out. If Hennessey is in trouble it's because he is not doing what his job as a Promoter is, ie, making money.

To be honest, I'm not really sure how Hatton, Matchroom and Maloney make much money. None of them have any "marquee" names (of the Boxrec top 15, 2 are self promoted, 6 with Warren, 1 (Barker) with Matchroom, 1 (Hatton) with Hatton and 4 I'm not sure about (Rhodes, Afolabi, McCloskey and McIntosh)). In fact Hennessey is the only one with a marquee name in Froch.

earsjohn wrote:

lefty wrote:All this nonsense about hennessy being a fans promoter and so forth is exactly that,Nonsense!The same goes for him being this protector of boxing for the paying public and going out of his way to put on competitive fights!The truth is that because in reality he's kinda small time in comparison to warren,maloney,hearn,hatton,etc in regards to tv deals,etc he's been forced into making more competitive fights to stay in the mix!Its been something he's had to do rather than him being a nice guy and caring so much about the fans!I guarantee that if Hennessy had done a better job of promoting froch and made him a bigger name and what have you he would of never of entered him into the super 6!Frcoh has basically been forced into the super 6 because his profile was still small before he entered and thus they had to try everything they possibly could which included putting him in the toughest matches to try and make him a bigger draw and a household name in the uk.

This is spot on. A promoters job is not to be popular with fans. The most successful UK promoter of the last 30 years is also the most widely reviled by the paying public. But his success is based on building his fighters and making money. Had Froch been on Box Office (as the quality of his last few fights would have dictated under Warren) he'd have made a pile of money and had a higher profile but would have been regarded less by fight fans as he'd have been seen as a sell out. If Hennessey is in trouble it's because he is not doing what his job as a Promoter is, ie, making money.

To be honest, I'm not really sure how Hatton, Matchroom and Maloney make much money. None of them have any "marquee" names (of the Boxrec top 15, 2 are self promoted, 6 with Warren, 1 (Barker) with Matchroom, 1 (Hatton) with Hatton and 4 I'm not sure about (Rhodes, Afolabi, McCloskey and McIntosh)). In fact Hennessey is the only one with a marquee name in Froch.

Well i think warren is pretty far in front on all honesty and the others are all competing against each other.

MachoMan09 wrote:Give me some ideas as to how he should market his stable better in a way that wouldn't bankrupt him or result in his shows making a loss. I don't think you're wrong, I just think it is a bit of a Catch-22. Coca-Cola spend roughly 3 billion dollars per year on marketing and it keeps them the market leader - so advertising works. Who's got 4 billion to try and knock them off their perch, though?

Macho, I think I've done so in the past when debating this point with the likes of Dave Payne - digital is an obvious one given it's such a low-cost mechanism with great reach. There are plenty of brands in the broader business space that have achieved great results without needing to throw money at it a la Coca Cola... Seth Godin's fantastic books illustrate some great case studies in this respect. On a micro level look at the way Dana White leverages Twitter to build fan loyalty, for example.
I've also never seen effective PR angles worked for his fighters, particuarly in terms of trying to position them to get mainstream press coverage.
And as for advertising/creative, jesus, all boxing promoters appear to be stuck in the 70s and produce dreadful collateral without exception.
Oh, and as someone who knows business, you'll know only too well that your Coca Cola assumption is a flawed one i.e. you don't necessarily need to outspend a company to outperform it.

lefty wrote:All this nonsense about hennessy being a fans promoter and so forth is exactly that,Nonsense!The same goes for him being this protector of boxing for the paying public and going out of his way to put on competitive fights!The truth is that because in reality he's kinda small time in comparison to warren,maloney,hearn,hatton,etc in regards to tv deals,etc he's been forced into making more competitive fights to stay in the mix!Its been something he's had to do rather than him being a nice guy and caring so much about the fans!I guarantee that if Hennessy had done a better job of promoting froch and made him a bigger name and what have you he would of never of entered him into the super 6!Frcoh has basically been forced into the super 6 because his profile was still small before he entered and thus they had to try everything they possibly could which included putting him in the toughest matches to try and make him a bigger draw and a household name in the uk.

B*llocks!!!!!!!!!!!

Froch has made a lot of money fighting for Hennessy Sports prior to the Super 6 - in addition by entering into the Super 6 he has also made a bucket load of money - to suggest if Froch was a bigger name he would not have entered into the Super 6 is a complete load of b*llocks!!!

I know Mick Hennessy and Carl Froch enough to know they would have signed for the Super 6 for a lot less money than they did solely because Froch has always wanted to prove his worth as a viable world class and pound for pound operator and as such The Super 6 was perfect scenario for this to happen.

Who has he got to top a bill? Froch is busy in super6..Daws&O donnell aint go top a tv bill now there lost there belts..That leaves Fury&i dont think he will stay(tv wise) so where does Hennessy go from here??

Tommy Gunn13 wrote:Who has he got to top a bill? Froch is busy in super6..Daws&O donnell aint go top a tv bill now there lost there belts..That leaves Fury&i dont think he will stay(tv wise) so where does Hennessy go from here??

Mick will have to think "outside the box" or clearly have a "Plan B" - your points are valid but he has had it harder than this before.

Spud wrote:

Tommy Gunn13 wrote:Who has he got to top a bill? Froch is busy in super6..Daws&O donnell aint go top a tv bill now there lost there belts..That leaves Fury&i dont think he will stay(tv wise) so where does Hennessy go from here??

Mick will have to think "outside the box" or clearly have a "Plan B" - your points are valid but he has had it harder than this before.

Id love nothing more for him to come back&prove the doubters(me included) wrong...I just think if Fury goes elsewhere then hes got no option than small shows&the fresh good talent from the Amateurs will bypass him&go to the bigger boys...