British Top 30 P4P March 2011

[Horse]

well if its for in-activity what the hell is kevin mitchell doing in there???

Smith was low in the rankings so he fell out when other fighters entered. He wasn't taken out because he was inactive.

[Londonirish]

You got Martin Lindsay who got beat by John Simpson who Stephen Smith beat but Smith out and Lindsay still in

Lindsay has a much better overall record than Smith.

Ok he has YES fought better opposition and Yes a better record as he has had more fights BUT he got beat by John who Smith Beat He's got an overall better record then Smith except one part he got beat by the Man who Beat the Man But Smith out and Lindsey in.. Still

[mickey1975]

yeah fair enough - i thought i saw smith in there.

You saw Smith's name as he has been kicked out! I presume its for inactivity even though Horse sometimes leaves Boxers in for a lot longer than the six months its been since Smith boxed.Smith is undefeated and holds a win over John Simpson in his last bout,enough said.

The boxers that stay in a lot longer than 6 months are those that have achieved a fair bit, so they have high rankings. Smith never had a very high ranking, so he fell out of the rankings after only 5 months of inactivity.

Who has Kevin Mitchell beat that is better than your number 15 John Simpson? Admit it,Horse,you have a problem with the Smith family.

[Horse]

Horse's vendetta against the Smith family is laughable

I don't have a vendetta against the Smith family.

[Horse]

Why would beating a 29th place Lee be worthy of inclusion but not a 15th place Simpson?

Smith entered the rankings after he beat Simpson and at the time Simpson wasn't ranked in the top 30.

[NazNaci1]

Fantastic list, again mate

Can't really have any issues, maybe I would have Rhodes ahead of Murray and Macklin but that is a minor point.

Bang on, as usual.

[wrimc]

Why would beating a 29th place Lee be worthy of inclusion but not a 15th place Simpson?

Smith entered the rankings after he beat Simpson and at the time Simpson wasn't ranked in the top 30.

That doesnt mean that fighters can't move up or down when a particular result or fight becomes more impressive

[mickey1975]

Why would beating a 29th place Lee be worthy of inclusion but not a 15th place Simpson?

Smith entered the rankings after he beat Simpson and at the time Simpson wasn't ranked in the top 30.

That doesnt mean that fighters can't move up or down when a particular result or fight becomes more impressive

Exactly,after Simpson's showing against Lindsay,Smith's win just looks better.I will agree it was close,but Lindsay got clearly beaten and is still in the list!I suspect there is no point in arguing the point with Horse on this one,mate.

[Horse]

No Frankie Gavin? Jesus wept...

Gavin's best win is against Lomax which is not enough to enter the rankings.

[wrimc]

No Frankie Gavin? Jesus wept...

Gavin's best win is against Lomax which is not enough to enter the rankings.

But a win against the unranked Paul Smith is enough to rocket Degale into 21st?

[Horse]

I aint quite sure what a split decision win over Jamie Arthur, who wasn't in your 30 (and I'm assuming not that close to being in your 30) - warrants an 8 place jump for Booth.

His 8 place move up the rankings was not all due to his win over the then Commonwealth champion Jamie Arthur. Booth's good run of solid domestic wins and his fairly close majority decision loss to Molitor in his World title shot was taken into account as well.


Here is some of my reasoning behind my decision to have Booth move ahead of the eight fighters that he overtook:

Barker hasn't fought in over 10 months and he was only one place above Booth, so he had to be overtaken. Witter lost and fell out of the rankings. Mitchell has been out over 9 months and is coming off of a devastating loss. Simpson has a recent loss to Smith. MCloskey's wins over the last two years has been against: Harrison, Rasilla, Lauri & Morrison; I consider Booth's recent wins to be better than that.

Magee has only had two fights in the last two years and it is difficult to tell just how much those wins are worth. Brook's recent opposition has not been as good as Booth's. Hatton's recent wins are probably better than Booth's, but Hatton hasn't fought since November and he hasn't been taking on any of the top British Welterweights, so that counts against him.

[Horse]

Ok he has YES fought better opposition and Yes a better record as he has had more fights BUT he got beat by John who Smith Beat He's got an overall better record then Smith except one part he got beat by the Man who Beat the Man But Smith out and Lindsey in.. Still

If Smith had fought again since then then he would probably still be in the rankings, but he hasn't because he is injured. When he fights again I can re-enter him.

[Scottrf]

P4P lists are opinion. I can't understand why people would get so personal about a list, especially one he's willing to justify.

[Horse]

Who has Kevin Mitchell beat that is better than your number 15 John Simpson? Admit it,Horse,you have a problem with the Smith family.

I think Mitchell's win against Johanneson is better than Smith's win over Simpson, considering Mitchell won by knockout and Smith won by split decision. Also, Johanneson was ranked at 23rd when Mitchell beat him whereas Simpson was unranked when Smith beat him.

If I really had a problem with the Smith family then I could have left Stephen out of the rankings all together, considering that his only good win is against Simpson and that the fight was a very close split decision.

[Horse]

Fantastic list, again mate

Can't really have any issues, maybe I would have Rhodes ahead of Murray and Macklin but that is a minor point.

Bang on, as usual.

Thank you, bengulnaci1.

There isn't much in it between Macklin, Murray and Rhodes. I just think Macklin and Murray have done slightly more recently.

[Horse]

That doesnt mean that fighters can't move up or down when a particular result or fight becomes more impressive

I only move fighters up or down after they have had a fight and Smith hasn't fought since he beat Simpson.

[stujones]

I aint quite sure what a split decision win over Jamie Arthur, who wasn't in your 30 (and I'm assuming not that close to being in your 30) - warrants an 8 place jump for Booth.

His 8 place move up the rankings was not all due to his win over the then Commonwealth champion Jamie Arthur. Booth's good run of solid domestic wins and his fairly close majority decision loss to Molitor in his World title shot was taken into account as well.


Here is some of my reasoning behind my decision to have Booth move ahead of the eight fighters that he overtook:

Barker hasn't fought in over 10 months and he was only one place above Booth, so he had to be overtaken. Witter lost and fell out of the rankings. Mitchell has been out over 9 months and is coming off of a devastating loss. Simpson has a recent loss to Smith. MCloskey's wins over the last two years has been against: Harrison, Rasilla, Lauri & Morrison; I consider Booth's recent wins to be better than that.

Magee has only had two fights in the last two years and it is difficult to tell just how much those wins are worth. Brook's recent opposition has not been as good as Booth's. Hatton's recent wins are probably better than Booth's, but Hatton hasn't fought since November and he hasn't been taking on any of the top British Welterweights, so that counts against him.

I'm just noting a few inconsistencies here and there nothing personal or anything. Just when Audley won his European title against a fighter not worthy of fighting for the title - not mandatory for the EBU title, you used his EBU title as a reason for his ranking.

With Magee and McCloskey, who won the same EBU title - against (certainly in Magee's case) a better opponent than Sprott it has always been "we don't know much about his opponents" - Mads Larsen should have been a world champion and was looking very impressive on his return until he faced Magee in Denmark.

For me McCloskey has fought a geniune EBU level fighter in Lauri who has given many EBU level opponents good fights. Morrison is a former British champion also...... Why it stacks up so poorly compared to the likes of Arthur (VACANT Commonwealth title win, shut out defeat for the British title before), Marsh on a cut and a defeat - you've always said a fighter cannot go up on a defeat no matter how controvesial. So that should be a negative, but now its a postive?

So if Enzo Maccarinelli fights Nathan Cleverley in April - and gives Nathan a good fight. Losing a razor tight, close and controvesial Split decision. Does he enter the rankings?

[Chris W 1982]

I appreciate you try ya best to compile this list Horse but not having Stephen Smith in the list is a joke.

Boxing Monthly have him number one, as do Boxing News. He's the man who beat the man. He should be in the list.

[Londonirish]

Ok he has YES fought better opposition and Yes a better record as he has had more fights BUT he got beat by John who Smith Beat He's got an overall better record then Smith except one part he got beat by the Man who Beat the Man But Smith out and Lindsey in.. Still

If Smith had fought again since then then he would probably still be in the rankings, but he hasn't because he is injured. When he fights again I can re-enter him.

What even if he gets beat

Any have any news when he is out again?

[$wifty]

Thanks for all the support on here everyone!

Im back out next month against Simpson again for the British and Commonwealth Titles, this will give me the chance to prove a point, win well with both hands and maybe re-enter the p4p list

Thanks again for all the support, the hand is back 100% and im feeling great and looking forward to being back in the ring

[DougieC30]

Where is the fight stephen?

[Horse]

No Frankie Gavin? Jesus wept...

Gavin's best win is against Lomax which is not enough to enter the rankings.

But a win against the unranked Paul Smith is enough to rocket Degale into 21st?

A win against Smith is a lot better than a win against Lomax.

[wrimc]

Gavin's best win is against Lomax which is not enough to enter the rankings.

But a win against the unranked Paul Smith is enough to rocket Degale into 21st?

A win against Smith is a lot better than a win against Lomax.

Agreed im not arguing for Gavin's inclusion but its obvious that you have have rated Degale higher not because of the individual win on its own but by his talent where you have not taken into this account with other fighters

[Horse]

I'm just noting a few inconsistencies here and there nothing personal or anything. Just when Audley won his European title against a fighter not worthy of fighting for the title - not mandatory for the EBU title, you used his EBU title as a reason for his ranking.

It was the reason for his ranking.

With Magee and McCloskey, who won the same EBU title - against (certainly in Magee's case) a better opponent than Sprott it has always been "we don't know much about his opponents" - Mads Larsen should have been a world champion and was looking very impressive on his return until he faced Magee in Denmark.

Magee re-entered the rankings at No. 15 because of his win against Larsen. I think I gave him a decent amount of credit for that win considering they had both been out of the ring for over a year.

For me McCloskey has fought a geniune EBU level fighter in Lauri who has given many EBU level opponents good fights. Morrison is a former British champion also...... Why it stacks up so poorly compared to the likes of Arthur (VACANT Commonwealth title win, shut out defeat for the British title before), Marsh on a cut and a defeat

I think Marsh and Arthur would have beaten all of McCloskey's recent opposition in P4P fights (although I wouldn't be sure). Barry Morrison is no better than Michael Sprott and Dean Harrison is below both.

Anyway, I don't think McCloskey's recent results stacks up very poorly compared to Booth's recent results, I just considered Booth to have done more recently. Losing a close decision to a World champion, in addition to beating decent domestic opponents, is better than beating weak domestic/European fighters.

- you've always said a fighter cannot go up on a defeat no matter how controvesial. So that should be a negative, but now its a postive?

I have changed my policy and I can now move fighters up after a loss or draw. However, I always used to take the nature of previous losses into consideration when deciding where to rank a fighter after they won a fight.

So if Enzo Maccarinelli fights Nathan Cleverley in April - and gives Nathan a good fight. Losing a razor tight, close and controvesial Split decision. Does he enter the rankings?

Possibly.

[Horse]

I appreciate you try ya best to compile this list Horse but not having Stephen Smith in the list is a joke.

Boxing Monthly have him number one, as do Boxing News. He's the man who beat the man. He should be in the list.

Boxing Monthly used to have Gary Lockett as their No. 1 British Middleweight, even though he had never beaten a top 10 British fighter. I often disagree with Boxing Monthly's rankings.

Simpson should be considered the No. 1 British Featherweight, in my opinion.