BoxRec

G0mez wrote:

crusader wrote:

G0mez wrote:Bute looks great, simply because his opponents aren't.I've seen him decked a few times (the golovkin shot was a good one).

After the 8th round the wheels fall off and its then that Magee needs his reserves to do the business.

Magee is similar to Bute is some ways, but with a worse chin.

I hope he wins cos he's a nice guy and would brilliant for Irish boxing.

Aside from the Andrade fight, when has Bute noticably faded afterthe 8th?

There's been a couple i've noticed he's been blowing - Tatevosyan I think was one.

We have to also consider the standard he has fought, hardly C-level and Andrade is tough and strong, he cant box and defend at world level and Bute was stumbling around and falling on the floor like a drunk. He was so dog tired he couldn't even lift his arms up to cover his face, and the shot that put him down was a glancing, slow effort - and Bute dropped like spuds. He barely got up right on the count of 10 (despite help from ref Marlon B. Wright).

He looks like a lollipop. Big head and skinny body.

I don't think Bute is a special talent and imo Froch, Ward, and Kessler would beat him, but it seems to me like you going too hard on him. Bika, Andrade, Berrio were all ranked in the top ten when Bute beat them. To suggest he has hardly fought C-level is off the mark.

As for Andrade...he is strong and tough, and that is one of the reasons Bute gassed. The fact that he has limited boxing and defensive abilities was made obvious by Bute throughout the first 11 rounds, so I don't know what you are getting at. Of course the shot that dropped Bute wasn't exactly a highlight reel blow, as you mentioned, he was dead tired and could hardly hold his hands up. He also got to his feet on his own in less than 10 seconds. That has become the most overblown controversy in boxing. Ignore Wright and count on your own--Bute gets up in about 8 seconds and there was no time left in the fight (there was 5 seconds left when Bute went down). Bute also won the rematch convincingly by becoming the first fighter to stop the extremely durable Andrade.

Magee is a good EBU type of fighter and a legit top 15 guy on the world scene. If Bute completely dominates him, I will be reasonably impressed. No one, including Carl Froch, has done that to him.

bute is better than you lot are giving him credit for

lefty wrote:bute is better than you lot are giving him credit for

I think Bute has the potential to be the best in the super middleweight division. It depends on what fights he gets, though. We'll have to see who wins the Super Six. Styles make fights.

crusader wrote:
I don't think Bute is a special talent and imo Froch, Ward, and Kessler would beat him, but it seems to me like you going too hard on him. Bika, Andrade, Berrio were all ranked in the top ten when Bute beat them. To suggest he has hardly fought C-level is off the mark.

As for Andrade...he is strong and tough, and that is one of the reasons Bute gassed. The fact that he has limited boxing and defensive abilities was made obvious by Bute throughout the first 11 rounds, so I don't know what you are getting at. Of course the shot that dropped Bute wasn't exactly a highlight reel blow, as you mentioned, he was dead tired and could hardly hold his hands up. He also got to his feet on his own in less than 10 seconds. That has become the most overblown controversy in boxing. Ignore Wright and count on your own--Bute gets up in about 8 seconds and there was no time left in the fight (there was 5 seconds left when Bute went down). Bute also won the rematch convincingly by becoming the first fighter to stop the extremely durable Andrade.

Magee is a good EBU type of fighter and a legit top 15 guy on the world scene. If Bute completely dominates him, I will be reasonably impressed. No one, including Carl Froch, has done that to him.

Not being hard at all - when I watched that fight i thought it was a load of bollocks and Bute could be argued he got up BANG on 10 but I couldn't make a case for it being a millisecond less. That was compounded when someone posted a clip with it timed. The pundits and everyone wondered what the hell was going off at the time and it's the sole reason there was a rematch. Sure I give him credit for landing that body shot in rematch, it was a peach - but it dont erase how terrible he looked in round 12, he's lucky it wasn't a goldenboy show with Joe Cortez, cos he'd have been stopped no doubt because he could not defend himself in any way. I struggle to think of anyone looked as bad in any recent fight.

Most of Bute's early pro fights I actually uploaded for everyone years back. I was really excited as he progressed - but Miranda, Bika, Andrade are all nearly-men who have been dominated when stepping up to title level. Kess beat Andrade 120-108 across all three cards. Miranda was destroyed by Abraham in Miami and Pavlik. Bika is better, but is a dream opponent for a slick boxer to tee off on.

Jesse Brinkley was his last fight, then before that it was Joppy !

Now he's fighting Brian Magee. Who I'm fond of, but Froch knocked him out clean - and he broke his hand in the opening round. Tatevosyan took bute 12 rounds, we saw Carl flatten him in 2 rounds in his next fight.

Bute has a lot to prove in my book and hopefully all the answers will be revealed.

I'd love to see Bute vs Froch, Gomez. Not because of who I think will win, but because I think it would be a really good fight. Bute's the better boxer, imo, but Froch is tougher and more proven.

I think Bute will have to move up to light heavyweight sooner or later. He's massive at the weight and I think that is part of the reason why he flags towards the end of his fights.

Bute did make it up before the count of 10 however he was so badly all over the place you could argue had Wright not turned around and started complaining about Andrade being outside the neutral corner he could have stopped him when he rose to his feet. We see it all the time a fighter rises looks shakey and then gets waved off, Bute was there gloves by his side leaning back on the ropes for a lot of the time absolutely spent. You can turn around and say 'bah there was 5 seconds of the fight left' but had Wright not pinged Andrade it would have been more like 15 which was probably just enough time. I also hope and pray that Bute fights someone like Kessler or another top fighter, gets hammered over 11 rounds, then suddenly lands a honey punch only for the guy to rise to his feet unsteady and leaning on the ropes but for the ref to let it go shrug his shoulders and say 'ah well there was only 5 seconds to go' and see what the big Bute fans say then.

jameswilson wrote:Bute did make it up before the count of 10 however he was so badly all over the place you could argue had Wright not turned around and started complaining about Andrade being outside the neutral corner he could have stopped him when he rose to his feet. We see it all the time a fighter rises looks shakey and then gets waved off, Bute was there gloves by his side leaning back on the ropes for a lot of the time absolutely spent. You can turn around and say 'bah there was 5 seconds of the fight left' but had Wright not pinged Andrade it would have been more like 15 which was probably just enough time. I also hope and pray that Bute fights someone like Kessler or another top fighter, gets hammered over 11 rounds, then suddenly lands a honey punch only for the guy to rise to his feet unsteady and leaning on the ropes but for the ref to let it go shrug his shoulders and say 'ah well there was only 5 seconds to go' and see what the big Bute fans say then.

There was less than five seconds to go in the fight when Bute went down and there was also a mandatory eight count. Even if Wright did a perfect job Andrade would have had no time to follow up. Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that? Watch the round again and explain to me how Andrade could have possibly finished Bute had Wright kept counting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARs8axyaDz0

I think the whole Andrade thing is a red herring anyway to be honest. Let's just say that hypothetically he lost that fight - the fact is that should make no difference in how we rank him now.
What I don't understand is the same people who agree that too much emphasis are placed on the '0', are the same ones getting obsessive about the Andrade outcome.
The bottom line is that if the ref had stopped it, we'd still be in exactly the same place in terms of evaluating Bute i.e. question marks over durability, but accepting he had erased the Andrade 'question mark' in conclusive fashion.
I also think that not enough credit is given to fighters actually learning a lot from an experience. In this specific case, Andrade may have highlighted a durability issue and that's given Bute and his team the opportunity to address it, which is ultimately a positive - just because it happened once, doesn't automatically mean it's a permanent issue.

Deserter wrote:I think the whole Andrade thing is a red herring anyway to be honest. Let's just say that hypothetically he lost that fight - the fact is that should make no difference in how we rank him now.
What I don't understand is the same people who agree that too much emphasis are placed on the '0', are the same ones getting obsessive about the Andrade outcome.
The bottom line is that if the ref had stopped it, we'd still be in exactly the same place in terms of evaluating Bute i.e. question marks over durability, but accepting he had erased the Andrade 'question mark' in conclusive fashion.
I also think that not enough credit is given to fighters actually learning a lot from an experience. In this specific case, Andrade may have highlighted a durability issue and that's given Bute and his team the opportunity to address it, which is ultimately a positive - just because it happened once, doesn't automatically mean it's a permanent issue.

Good post Deserter, look at Khan so far (and Haye also I might add).

Although being pedantic I would say it was more a stamina issue as opposed to a durability issue - Andrade landed clean in the earlier rounds without flooring Bute - and that issue hasn't been tested.

It will be interesting to see how British views on Bute might change after Saturday. No-one so far has beaten Magee decisevely (I mean a shut out points lead on the way to a stoppage) - Magee has been seen as a good "gatekeeper" to world class so far... can hold his own but ultimately loses to world class fighters and in the view of most beat a fringe world contender in Tsypko. I'm just wondering if those that don't consider Bute to be #1 if he does a number on Magee - will opinion be changed? or will people just class Magee as not the same fighter who gave Froch a run for his money.

crusader wrote:

jameswilson wrote:Bute did make it up before the count of 10 however he was so badly all over the place you could argue had Wright not turned around and started complaining about Andrade being outside the neutral corner he could have stopped him when he rose to his feet. We see it all the time a fighter rises looks shakey and then gets waved off, Bute was there gloves by his side leaning back on the ropes for a lot of the time absolutely spent. You can turn around and say 'bah there was 5 seconds of the fight left' but had Wright not pinged Andrade it would have been more like 15 which was probably just enough time. I also hope and pray that Bute fights someone like Kessler or another top fighter, gets hammered over 11 rounds, then suddenly lands a honey punch only for the guy to rise to his feet unsteady and leaning on the ropes but for the ref to let it go shrug his shoulders and say 'ah well there was only 5 seconds to go' and see what the big Bute fans say then.

There was less than five seconds to go in the fight when Bute went down and there was also a mandatory eight count. Even if Wright did a perfect job Andrade would have had no time to follow up. Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that? Watch the round again and explain to me how Andrade could have possibly finished Bute had Wright kept counting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARs8axyaDz0

Have you read my post? I'm saying the ref could have waved it off when he got to his feet because he was so wobbly and spent and leaning on the ropes, and like I said in my post I'd love to see what the ref would do if Bute was facing someone like Andre Ward and the scenario was reversed, I'd say the ref would have waved Ward off and everyone would have said 'yeah fair game you cant take the time left into account, it was a fair stoppage.' If your favourite fighter was losing by a mile but came back and did that to a top class opponent, stuck him on his backside and the guy got to his feet with a few seconds left all over the place, what would you say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGM6WAfosj0

Look at the vid here, it stays on Bute during the count and the guy is leaning back on the ropes and not standing up by himself. My argument which I'm trying to ram home is Bute should have been stopped before the end of the round because he was in such a state. Even before the knockdown he is swaying all over the place doing nothing but holding on, yeah sure it could be seen as harsh given how far ahead he was but come on. The other thing you see in this vid is the ref doesn't say 'put your gloves up walk towards me' he just grabs his gloves and while Bute leans back on the ropes he wipes his gloves, hardly showing that he is steady and fit to continue. I'v definately seen guys stopped who were in better shape to continue than Bute was there.

jameswilson wrote:

crusader wrote:

jameswilson wrote:Bute did make it up before the count of 10 however he was so badly all over the place you could argue had Wright not turned around and started complaining about Andrade being outside the neutral corner he could have stopped him when he rose to his feet. We see it all the time a fighter rises looks shakey and then gets waved off, Bute was there gloves by his side leaning back on the ropes for a lot of the time absolutely spent. You can turn around and say 'bah there was 5 seconds of the fight left' but had Wright not pinged Andrade it would have been more like 15 which was probably just enough time. I also hope and pray that Bute fights someone like Kessler or another top fighter, gets hammered over 11 rounds, then suddenly lands a honey punch only for the guy to rise to his feet unsteady and leaning on the ropes but for the ref to let it go shrug his shoulders and say 'ah well there was only 5 seconds to go' and see what the big Bute fans say then.

There was less than five seconds to go in the fight when Bute went down and there was also a mandatory eight count. Even if Wright did a perfect job Andrade would have had no time to follow up. Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that? Watch the round again and explain to me how Andrade could have possibly finished Bute had Wright kept counting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARs8axyaDz0

Have you read my post? I'm saying the ref could have waved it off when he got to his feet because he was so wobbly and spent and leaning on the ropes, and like I said in my post I'd love to see what the ref would do if Bute was facing someone like Andre Ward and the scenario was reversed, I'd say the ref would have waved Ward off and everyone would have said 'yeah fair game you cant take the time left into account, it was a fair stoppage.' If your favourite fighter was losing by a mile but came back and did that to a top class opponent, stuck him on his backside and the guy got to his feet with a few seconds left all over the place, what would you say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGM6WAfosj0

Look at the vid here, it stays on Bute during the count and the guy is leaning back on the ropes and not standing up by himself. My argument which I'm trying to ram home is Bute should have been stopped before the end of the round because he was in such a state. Even before the knockdown he is swaying all over the place doing nothing but holding on, yeah sure it could be seen as harsh given how far ahead he was but come on. The other thing you see in this vid is the ref doesn't say 'put your gloves up walk towards me' he just grabs his gloves and while Bute leans back on the ropes he wipes his gloves, hardly showing that he is steady and fit to continue. I'v definately seen guys stopped who were in better shape to continue than Bute was there.

I read your post and you typed this ---"You can turn around and say 'bah there was 5 seconds of the fight left' but had Wright not pinged Andrade it would have been more like 15 which was probably just enough time. "

I was addressing this comment with my reply. Given that there was less than 5 seconds when Bute went down, your suggestion is off the mark and just not possible. I posted the video and if you watched I don't see how you could make such a claim.Tell me James, what does the clock say about a second or two before Bute goes down? Also, why on earth would the ref wave the fight off when there was 0 seconds left? Again, there is no way Andrade could have followed up, so to stop it because Bute was hurt and very tired would have been the wrong move, imo. Either way, the fight was not called off, and I don't think that was a huge problem considering it was basically over.

crusader wrote:

jameswilson wrote:

crusader wrote: There was less than five seconds to go in the fight when Bute went down and there was also a mandatory eight count. Even if Wright did a perfect job Andrade would have had no time to follow up. Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that? Watch the round again and explain to me how Andrade could have possibly finished Bute had Wright kept counting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARs8axyaDz0

Have you read my post? I'm saying the ref could have waved it off when he got to his feet because he was so wobbly and spent and leaning on the ropes, and like I said in my post I'd love to see what the ref would do if Bute was facing someone like Andre Ward and the scenario was reversed, I'd say the ref would have waved Ward off and everyone would have said 'yeah fair game you cant take the time left into account, it was a fair stoppage.' If your favourite fighter was losing by a mile but came back and did that to a top class opponent, stuck him on his backside and the guy got to his feet with a few seconds left all over the place, what would you say?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGM6WAfosj0

Look at the vid here, it stays on Bute during the count and the guy is leaning back on the ropes and not standing up by himself. My argument which I'm trying to ram home is Bute should have been stopped before the end of the round because he was in such a state. Even before the knockdown he is swaying all over the place doing nothing but holding on, yeah sure it could be seen as harsh given how far ahead he was but come on. The other thing you see in this vid is the ref doesn't say 'put your gloves up walk towards me' he just grabs his gloves and while Bute leans back on the ropes he wipes his gloves, hardly showing that he is steady and fit to continue. I'v definately seen guys stopped who were in better shape to continue than Bute was there.

I read your post and you typed this ---"You can turn around and say 'bah there was 5 seconds of the fight left' but had Wright not pinged Andrade it would have been more like 15 which was probably just enough time. "

I was addressing this comment with my reply. Given that there was less than 5 seconds when Bute went down, your suggestion is off the mark and just not possible. I posted the video and if you watched I don't see how you could make such a claim.Tell me James, what does the clock say about a second or two before Bute goes down? Also, why on earth would the ref wave the fight off when there was 0 seconds left? Again, there is no way Andrade could have followed up, so to stop it because Bute was hurt and very tired would have been the wrong move, imo. Either way, the fight was not called off, and I don't think that was a huge problem considering it was basically over.

Yeah fair enough at the time (obviously this was a hot topic back when it happened) I could have swore there was more time than that left on the clock but clearly not. None the less this doesn't change my opinion that the ref could have waved him off as even tho there wasn't time to continue he wasn't fit to continue.

Magee left for Canada today, looks in good shape.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/9421680.stm

Ted wrote:Magee left for Canada today, looks in good shape.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/9421680.stm

he'll end up getting sparked

lefty wrote:

Ted wrote:Magee left for Canada today, looks in good shape.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/9421680.stm

he'll end up getting sparked

I dont doubt hes the underdog, but in reality hes more 3-1 as opposed to 8-1, and so I'll have a cheeky fifty quid on him, considering I made a grand on his fight with larsen its a calculated bet.

Bute's going to look very big opposite Magee.

crusader wrote:

jameswilson wrote:Bute did make it up before the count of 10 however he was so badly all over the place you could argue had Wright not turned around and started complaining about Andrade being outside the neutral corner he could have stopped him when he rose to his feet. We see it all the time a fighter rises looks shakey and then gets waved off, Bute was there gloves by his side leaning back on the ropes for a lot of the time absolutely spent. You can turn around and say 'bah there was 5 seconds of the fight left' but had Wright not pinged Andrade it would have been more like 15 which was probably just enough time. I also hope and pray that Bute fights someone like Kessler or another top fighter, gets hammered over 11 rounds, then suddenly lands a honey punch only for the guy to rise to his feet unsteady and leaning on the ropes but for the ref to let it go shrug his shoulders and say 'ah well there was only 5 seconds to go' and see what the big Bute fans say then.

There was less than five seconds to go in the fight when Bute went down and there was also a mandatory eight count. Even if Wright did a perfect job Andrade would have had no time to follow up. Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that? Watch the round again and explain to me how Andrade could have possibly finished Bute had Wright kept counting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARs8axyaDz0

looked fair to me - he was put down with 5 seconds to go and then beat the count. I would have said if the fight had been waived off it would have been a very bad decision, since there was no posible way for him to get dropped again.