BoxRec

Horse wrote:

crusader wrote:

TheCobra wrote:Scorecards a bit harsh but you get nothing out there, I mean look at the Mayweather-Ricky Hatton scorecards they give you nothing in US if you are the away fighter. I gave Matthew the 5th round, he outworked Alvarez clearly and also gave him a share of I think it was 7th and 8th rounds I can;t remember.

After that Alvarez beat him clearly but not as impressively as I expected. Matt Hatton emerges from this with great credit, he used his tidy boxing skills and decent defence to always be in the fight and never really looked like getting stopped.

Your scorecard is nuts. Hatton clearly lost every round. He did better in some rounds than others, but it is impossible for me to even score a level round (aside from the deduction). Yes, Hatton threw 13 more punches in the 5th, but Alvarez landed 15 more punches. Canelo landed harder punches and more punches in every round.

Tons of heart and a great chin from Hatton, but just outgunned.

I don't think it is nuts to give Hatton a round and score another couple even. Alvarez had a poor workrate in a lot of rounds and Hatton will have done enough to win or get an even round in a lot of people's opinions.

Still don't see that. Hatton got outlanded every round and Alvarez had much more power in his shots. Hatton was busier in the third, fifth, and eighth, but that was by margins of just 2 punches, 13 punches, and 9 punches respectively. I don't see how you could give him those rounds or score it even when he wasn't landing anything meaningful. Fighters shouldn't be given a round because they did better than in the previous one.

TheCobra wrote:

Horse wrote:

crusader wrote: Your scorecard is nuts. Hatton clearly lost every round. He did better in some rounds than others, but it is impossible for me to even score a level round (aside from the deduction). Yes, Hatton threw 13 more punches in the 5th, but Alvarez landed 15 more punches. Canelo landed harder punches and more punches in every round.

Tons of heart and a great chin from Hatton, but just outgunned.

I don't think it is nuts to give Hatton a round and score another couple even. Alvarez had a poor workrate in a lot of rounds and Hatton will have done enough to win or get an even round in a lot of people's opinions.

Thanks, my thoughts exactly. My scorecard is NUTS??! Strong words there crusader. A keyboard crusader?

Maybe I shouldn't have called it nuts, but I strongly disagree that the cards were harsh---imo they were bang on, Matthew just never had anything on his punches. It seems you are insinuating the scoring was biased but do you really think Hatton won a round beyond question? For the scoring to be biased there would have to be rounds in which no good case can be made for Alvarez winning.

Yes Hatton won the fith. He did the better work and more of it.

Final round wrote:Yes Hatton won the fith. He did the better work and more of it.

He was outlanded signifcantly though and Canelo's connects were much harder. Ok, Hatton threw 13 more punches than Alvarez, so it was one of hiis better rounds, but no way he won it beyond doubt. Therefore I still can't see this alleged bias.

crusader wrote:

Final round wrote:Yes Hatton won the fith. He did the better work and more of it.

He was outlanded signifcantly though and Canelo's connects were much harder. Ok, Hatton threw 13 more punches than Alvarez, so it was one of hiis better rounds, but no way he won it beyond doubt. Therefore I still can't see this alleged bias.

I don't believe there was any bias just felt that was a round that he should have got personally. Alvarez didn't tee off or anything of serious note on Hatton who did the sharper work. Hatton still lost overallclearly through lack of power. Fair enough.

Matthew deserves credit, for sure. But I didn't get the impression that Alvarez ever went full on. He seemed a bit pissed off by it all at times, as though he was irritated by having this guy in front of him who couldn't hurt him, was never going to win, but wouldn't go away. I thought it was telling that one of the first things he did after the fight was speak in terms of how Matthew had been criticised as a choice of opponent but that he had done OK, as though that was a point he had to make in order to legitimise what was a pretty dodgy piece of matchmaking, when all is said and done. I'm not saying he carried Matthew, but I'm not far off saying that either. It may just be that Alvarez isn't all he's cracked up to be, but he's still very young and because he's as good as he is for his age I'm not willing to write him off yet. Jury's out, for me.

Could be right Glyn, he definately wasn't pressing for the knockout. That could be hoping for Hatton to tire to open into him late; seems unlikely when you consider he had no power to be wary of. Or it could be taking his supposed overmatched opponent 12 to legitimise it, or get rounds under his belt. I don't think he expected his opponent to keep coming or take so much so it was a bit of a miscalculation and he was being careful to not run out of gas. He had a decent points lead so didn't think he needed to press for the knockout. Golden Boy will be upset he didn't though, that's for sure.

You could sense the irritation in Alvarez at times definitely, especially after fouling. Hatton hit him after the break and the Mexican went crazy and that was the one point where he really looked like he wanted to finish it.

He's not a lad to make angry, is he Scott! Definitely came to life in the situations you mention. But I've got a bit of sympathy for Alvarez here, it was a bit of a no-win fight that he was always going to win. That must be quite odd for a fighter to get his head around, particularly one of Canelo's age. You could see by his body language at the end that he wasn't happy — he virtually ignored Hatton when Matty went up for the now customary hug and handshake at the final bell. It was like 'yeah, yeah, just gimme the belt and let me get on with my career'. I know he's had a lot of fights for a 20 year old, but he's still got a lot of maturing to do, as a fighter and a person. I like his style, I find him good to watch, but I don't think we'll see the best of him until he's put in far deeper than Matthew.

I can't see any attempt at him to learn to work on his defence, or any negative reaction to being hit. He almost seems to like it at times. So despite his age I can't see much improvement there, it's not like he's trying new ways to block or move his head and they are fairly. I can see him developing into a relentless pressure fighter, but not sure he'll ever have the knockout power to be the top level. But he can go quite far on that, conditioning and a strong chin alone. He seems to me to favour the left hook, which hurt Hatton, but against a smaller guy I'd expect those to stay with him, which I didn't really see. He's exciting though for sure.

He could be a bit of a do or die merchant, for sure, but that can be fun to watch, Vargas was like that. I see Alvarez as being a fighter who will trade on his own toughness, but then maybe with age he will wise up on that front — most of us feel invincible when we're kids, after all. How far he goes might depend on if he gets blasted out before he realises he can be blasted out?

Glyn Leach wrote:He's not a lad to make angry, is he Scott! Definitely came to life in the situations you mention. But I've got a bit of sympathy for Alvarez here, it was a bit of a no-win fight that he was always going to win. That must be quite odd for a fighter to get his head around, particularly one of Canelo's age. You could see by his body language at the end that he wasn't happy — he virtually ignored Hatton when Matty went up for the now customary hug and handshake at the final bell. It was like 'yeah, yeah, just gimme the belt and let me get on with my career'. I know he's had a lot of fights for a 20 year old, but he's still got a lot of maturing to do, as a fighter and a person. I like his style, I find him good to watch, but I don't think we'll see the best of him until he's put in far deeper than Matthew.

Lol Glyn I sense there is too much hugging and handshaking in the sport at the moment for you.

Alvarez wasn't happy 'cos Hatton wan't easy fodder for him. I don't believe he carried him in anyway Hatton's defence was very good and he used his box of tricks to tee.
They don't call him Magic Matt for nuthin!
Oscar looked pissed off considering Archie Alvarez had won the title, speaks volumes...

Yeah I noticed Alvarez was a bit dismissive of a clearly elated Hatton at the final bell. Obviously frustrated at not being able to knock out his pesky opponent, as most were expecting ( me included ) Before the first bell, looking at the size difference, I thought Matt was in danger of getting blasted out QUICK.

But credit to a very brave and gusty display by Matthew there - he's suddenly turned into a cagey veteran type, at least that's how it looked in there.

No need to write Alvarez off as a big player just yet - he's very young, and with the right trainer and match ups, could yet turn into a big, big star. Trouble is, golden boy don't seem too great at the matchmaking game, on previous form.

Final round wrote:Lol Glyn I sense there is too much hugging and handshaking in the sport at the moment for you.

Hee hee. No, I'm alright with it mate, but it does seem to have become very vogue in boxing over recent months, maybe it's a result of the respect UFC fighters seem to give each other after contests.

Glyn Leach wrote:

Final round wrote:Lol Glyn I sense there is too much hugging and handshaking in the sport at the moment for you.

Hee hee. No, I'm alright with it mate, but it does seem to have become very vogue in boxing over recent months, maybe it's a result of the respect UFC fighters seem to give each other after contests.

I didn't realise the UfC chaps were that repsectful, I've not watched much and have visions of Henderson smacking an unconcious Bisping everytime I think of it lol

Final round wrote:

crusader wrote:

Final round wrote:Yes Hatton won the fith. He did the better work and more of it.

He was outlanded signifcantly though and Canelo's connects were much harder. Ok, Hatton threw 13 more punches than Alvarez, so it was one of hiis better rounds, but no way he won it beyond doubt. Therefore I still can't see this alleged bias.

I don't believe there was any bias just felt that was a round that he should have got personally. Alvarez didn't tee off or anything of serious note on Hatton who did the sharper work. Hatton still lost overallclearly through lack of power. Fair enough.

I scored two rounds even. The one where the point was deducted and the round after if i remember correctly. 7 and 8 i think.
EDIT** no tell a lie i think it was 7 and 9 i scored even. Because i remember the look on alvarezs face when hatton just came back at him, he was disheartened - you could tell he wanted to show his class but hatton was ruining it for him.

I think hatton took a pasting in round 8.

If Hattons second name was Hart,their would be absolutely nothing said about him,the only reason people rave about him is because of his surname,he got wolloped sat night and at best is an average boxer!!

Final round wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote:

Final round wrote:Lol Glyn I sense there is too much hugging and handshaking in the sport at the moment for you.

Hee hee. No, I'm alright with it mate, but it does seem to have become very vogue in boxing over recent months, maybe it's a result of the respect UFC fighters seem to give each other after contests.

I didn't realise the UfC chaps were that repsectful, I've not watched much and have visions of Henderson smacking an unconcious Bisping everytime I think of it lol

You get the odd wrongun like Hendo, Bisping and Paul Daley, but these days they seem to get very loved up as soon as the final hooter sounds, it's all smiles and cuddles and "hey, that elbow you smashed me in the mouth with was sooooo awesome dude!"

alvarez is no great shakes.

very upright for a mexican.

he's a middleweight who boils down to light middle and fights welters and light welters - and still can't quite be sensational.

clearly he's being posited as the next golden boy, a truly desperate search. his face fits and he'll make money, but you can't really choose who will be great when they're barely out of the womb.

decent left hand, though.

Very upright for a Mexican, isn't he Autobarn. Unusual. Seemed to be an almost total disregard for defence. At times I was wondering: 'Is he fighting like this because he knows Hatton can't hurt him?' But people who have seen a lot more of him than I have have told me no, that's the way he fights all the time. It's attractive to watch and will make for some exciting fights once he starts meeting opponents who can test him, but on the evidence to date it seems we're not dealing with a great in the making here.

i prefer my mexicans compact hook throwing infighters.

does seem very stiff. he was caught and hurt by a light welter a few fights back (his HBO debut, forgot the oher guy's name) though seems to be doing alright after that scare.

last mexicans who were chosen to do well from early on, guided "expertly" - vic zaleta, urbano antillon - didn't quite make it as top fighters. obviously with everybody on his side - WBC, HBO - he will get every opportunity even if it goes wrong. that was one seriously contrived world title fight, vs matthew hatton.

alvarez will probably sell more PPVs, but sergio martinez (looking forward to his first PPV fight later this year, cotto) is the real champ around these weights.

Just as worrying (or not if you want entertainment) he was momentarily shook against Cotto and just fired back without any attempt of breaking the action, covering up etc. Who is his trainer?

Glyn Leach wrote:

Final round wrote:

Glyn Leach wrote: Hee hee. No, I'm alright with it mate, but it does seem to have become very vogue in boxing over recent months, maybe it's a result of the respect UFC fighters seem to give each other after contests.

I didn't realise the UfC chaps were that repsectful, I've not watched much and have visions of Henderson smacking an unconcious Bisping everytime I think of it lol

You get the odd wrongun like Hendo, Bisping and Paul Daley, but these days they seem to get very loved up as soon as the final hooter sounds, it's all smiles and cuddles and "hey, that elbow you smashed me in the mouth with was sooooo awesome dude!"

Elbow smash ouch, I couldn't be firendly with anyone who gave me a good one of those lol

Really good effort from Hatton. That will do his chances of getting a world title shot at Welterweight the power of good, because the Americans will appreciate the bottle he showed. He was domintated from start to finish IMO, but always tried to fight back when he could.

Some people have suggested that Alvarez's problems with his former manager, who tried to get this fight pulled, may have adversely affected him. Strangely, I find myself struggling to find reasons why he is what he is, it seems. Don't know why. He'd be far from the first hyped fighter not to deliver. I did wonder after the Cotto fight, I will admit.

for the next 3-4 years we're going to be hearing about how good this guy can be.

at least i prefer him to victor ortiz. another guy with seemingly the whole system on his side (ring mag website were sneaking victor ortiz angles into articles on many different top fighters AFTER he was smashed by maidana) that it made you amused when it all imploded.