BoxRec

dempseyfire wrote:Frazier did not "just have the left hook".

He had an excellent jab, and while his right hand was not the money punch his left was, it could do damage and came fast and hard. He slashed up Quarry's face in their rematch with the right hand. Also solid body puncher with either hand, as well as the uppercut.

Owl wrote:

jaclem2 wrote:...owl..you say your exclusion was a "simple one in my mind."...and indeed, it would take a simple mind to leave him out.

Cute. One thing I noticed about some Boxrec posters is that most seem to struggle with the basic rules of discussing ones opinions. One can ridicule the opinion but to ridicule the one who states the opinion. Why because ridiculing the person behind the opinion is really just a lack of proper manners. If you want to show he is wrong or you disagree you don't need to post with "your a pudendum/idiot/stupid/you don't know shit/etc" you can just tell me your arguments. What you think about me is really irrelevant.

Its sad really. Because Boxing scene has many more trolls and poorly mannered individuals because they have such a greater following. It seems that though boxrec is considerably less populated it nonetheless has the same amount of people who simply post to pick on the posters rather than the argument or the basis of their argument.

It seems harder and harder to have a good back and forward conversation between knowledgeable people, even if of a different opinion.

theone wrote:Louis didnt have the chin to beat Frazier. Nor Foreman, Liston and even Tyson. To beat any of these guys you had to be elusive or have a granite chin. As great as Joe was, he had neither.

theone wrote:Louis didnt have the chin to beat Frazier. Nor Foreman, Liston and even Tyson. To beat any of these guys you had to be elusive or have a granite chin. As great as Joe was, he had neither.

jaclem2 wrote:..alp...if you back up a few posts, you'll see that i agreed that we can and should keep our discussions on the subject at hand without name calling or ad hom attacks. i just did the first one for the hell of it just to stir things up a little.

actually, while i don't agree with owl i think he made a good case for his opinion.
(Now that i'm here though, i don't see how holyfield made it onto the list.)

jaclem2 wrote:...man...i don't understand what you're getting at...and i have a hunch you don't either.. D 8)

theone wrote:Louis didnt have the chin to beat Frazier. Nor Foreman, Liston and even Tyson. To beat any of these guys you had to be elusive or have a granite chin. As great as Joe was, he had neither.

hhaehre wrote:

theone wrote:Louis didnt have the chin to beat Frazier. Nor Foreman, Liston and even Tyson. To beat any of these guys you had to be elusive or have a granite chin. As great as Joe was, he had neither.

Louis had a very good chin and he was pretty elusive as well. Obviously guys like Frazier, Foreman, Liston and Tysom could knock out anyone but I guarantee you they would all go if Joe Louis hit them right.

theone wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

theone wrote:Louis didnt have the chin to beat Frazier. Nor Foreman, Liston and even Tyson. To beat any of these guys you had to be elusive or have a granite chin. As great as Joe was, he had neither.

Louis had a very good chin and he was pretty elusive as well. Obviously guys like Frazier, Foreman, Liston and Tysom could knock out anyone but I guarantee you they would all go if Joe Louis hit them right.

Louis was dropped more times than any other great heavyweight great besides Patterson and was staggered badly by Billy Conn. He was far from elusive and his chin may not have been china but it was far from granite. Louis had an average heavyweight chin at best.

theone wrote: The fighters i mentioned wont have a hard time finding Louis. With their proven chins they'd be able to take more from Louis than he could from them. Liston may be the only exception.

Louis was an agressive come forward fighter and as such he was hit less than most. He had excellent head movement and great recuperative powers. He was only knocked out twice, once in his last fight and once against a still very useful ex champ who hit Louis with everything but the kitchen sink in order to get the job done. The man was champion longer than any hw in history and that is simply not done sporting a weak, or even an average, chin.

They were great fighters and I'm sure they could find Louis but he would sure as hell find them too. I would not bet much against a prime Louis vs. any fighter in history.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:The One, how much consideration do you give to the fact Louis had infinitely quicker, shorter & straighter punches than Foreman & Liston? The gulf is absolutely massive in terms of speed, technique, & punching efficiency. Louis hits them a lot more than they hit him, IMO.

Those are fights I wouldn't have a hard time seeing any outcome, but I couldn't honestly say I would favour either of the bruisers over Louis. They had a lot more mistakes in their game, & the Bomber was the right man to make them pay dearly.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Max baer was big and strong. The size difference isn't what you're making it out to be. Louis was taller than Liston and would be giving away about 10 pounds to him. Not sure what proof there is that Sonny was the stronger man or stronger than the bigger Baer brothers that Joe annihilated.

I'd give George the edge in strength, but again Joe was slightly shorter and would be giving away about 20 pounds. He would be significantly faster than either of them. While they would have a reach advantage, Joe is looking to get in mid range anyway. So I don't think it's that big of a disadvantage for him. He struggled more with guys who had great footwork than he did with someone trying to take his head off.

theone wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Max baer was big and strong. The size difference isn't what you're making it out to be. Louis was taller than Liston and would be giving away about 10 pounds to him. Not sure what proof there is that Sonny was the stronger man or stronger than the bigger Baer brothers that Joe annihilated.

I'd give George the edge in strength, but again Joe was slightly shorter and would be giving away about 20 pounds. He would be significantly faster than either of them. While they would have a reach advantage, Joe is looking to get in mid range anyway. So I don't think it's that big of a disadvantage for him. He struggled more with guys who had great footwork than he did with someone trying to take his head off.

Max Baer isnt near the caliber fighter Foreman and Liston were. Baer was scared shitless and didnt want to engage with Louis. The bigger Baer brother was a big slow stiff who still managed to land and drop Louis. Joe was fast...coming froward. Exactly like they would be expecting him to. These guy in their prime didn't move like they were stuck in the mud either.

King Carlos wrote:Of course Frazier. Noone ever had a better left hook, in any weight class.