Khan PPV Does 50,000 buys. Success or not?

[Camcas]

How many buys did Khan Maidana get?

[tear up]

think the time change if so that many buys only swapped within the week i think its a success i reckon its a shame he going to america once again as it was excitin to c a big crowd there like hatton use to get got me going shoutin at the tv

[Kit]

If these figures are correct does it include Irish buys? That's the only way I can see these type of numbers.

[mickey1975]

Even FW says 60,000 buys in his column today. Three times Froch's best numbers,apparentley. Sky must have helped with their promotion of the fight before and after pulling it. They spent a fortune sending Ed to the Phillipines,Belfast and Bolton!

[Carbo]

Let me tell you how it works, Primetime is a limited company and probably has share holders and a stock market value, if in any way they release information or fail to correct any information that would increase their stock market value they would be liable for a big fine or even possible fraud charges.

It doesn't work like that at all. A limited company isn't quoted on the stock exchange. It doesn't have a stock market value, and the only ones privy to the actual figures would be the directors/accountants. They have to post profit and loss, but the directors are under no obligation to reveal actual PPV figures to anyone other than their accountants and shareholders (which are limited to fifty, if it is a limited company).

Yeah your right and most companies will start out as Limited companies with limited liability, started like that myself but i'm presuming a company like primetime which has been going for a few years may have gone public and floated shares in order to expand.

Exittored, not all companies go to the stock market to expand. Some of the biggest companies in the world are not PLC (or, more accurately, Open Joint Stock Companies). If you want to expand, and need capital to do so, there are all kinds of other ways to generate that -- like loans from banks, syndicated loans, bringing in new strategic or private equity investors, or simply tapping the bond market. Most PLC/OJSCs also tap those other sources during the year -- General Electric have bond holders as well as share holders -- but many just sell bonds without ever selling equity. In fact, until very recently, and I think perhaps even still, the bond market was far, far bigger than the stock market.

Most big companies -- and PrimeTime, if it's a standalone company and not a subsidiary of a larger media holding, is most certainly not a 'big company' -- are probably not publicly listed companies.

Meantime, I see no reason why anyone's going to outright lie about the number of sales they've done. And if they've done anywhere in the 50,000-60,000 range, I reckon that's a tremendous effort. It might not mean loads of money for Khan (but you have to factor in the gate receipts to his take, and it looked fairly full), but it surely must be a success for PrimeTime, who only had days to promote the fight.

It would be nice to see them do well, I think. From a fan's perspective, they've made a huge effort, showing fights that Sky don't bother with and offering them, in my view, at a fair price for a boxing fan who wants to see as much quality action as he can. I wish them every success, as Sky having a total monopoly can't be a good thing -- on several levels.

[stujones]

Maybe just maybe, Khan is not so despised as people think - or people want to pay to see him lose.

People here were anticipating at most 10,000 buys. Now he's done over five times that, people still are not convinced and making up excuses - even questioning the accuracy of the PR.

I'm sure the Irish contingent and the Sky thing enhanced the sales - but 60K represents good sales and maybe Sky did underestimate the selling power of McCloskey or Khan (for whatever reason).

Why can't we just hold our hands up and say "it surprised me" and sales indicate it was worthy of being on PPV (whether we think it was a PPV worthy fight or not). It might also indicate why TV companies haven't been banging the door down in Nottingham.

[Chambers2]

Maybe just maybe, Khan is not so despised as people think - or people want to pay to see him lose.

People here were anticipating at most 10,000 buys. Now he's done over five times that, people still are not convinced and making up excuses - even questioning the accuracy of the PR.

I'm sure the Irish contingent and the Sky thing enhanced the sales - but 60K represents good sales and maybe Sky did underestimate the selling power of McCloskey or Khan (for whatever reason).

Why can't we just hold our hands up and say "it surprised me" and sales indicate it was worthy of being on PPV (whether we think it was a PPV worthy fight or not). It might also indicate why TV companies haven't been banging the door down in Nottingham.

Good post

[h smithy]

looks like it was a good move, FW is claming in his column today in the sun that it did 60k plus buys with only 1 week notice and that froch's fights on primetime done no more than 20k. if thats the case it was a bold move that paid off, hopefully now primetime will become a major player in boxing and heap pressure on sky, it can only benefit us fans.

[SAPFO]

Well Khan is maybe 2.5 times more well know that Froch in the UK. Wait until he gets his/her wish for 'more attention'. fornicate me1 we will know what colour his big roll is soon enough!

[Final round]

That's far more PPV's than i thought they would get on Primetime. Good for the sport really.

[earsjohn]

So 60,000 is being claimed as a big success, but surely if it had been 60,000 on Sky it would have been dismissed as a failure?

And it's not as if the fight had only a week of promotion - there was only a week for people who were planning on paying £15 to watch the fight on Sky to work out how to order it through Primetime (surely not the most difficult of challenges??), so Primetime in effect got 2 months of free build up, courtesy of Sky, a big preview 2 days before on Ringside and a whole load of publicity in the week before as a result of the contract wrangling. I'd say they lost no more than 10,000 buys (based on nothing but my gut feeling) through people planning to buy it on Sky but not buying it on Primetime. So with that in mind a pertinent question should be - Would 70k buys be viewed as a success for a Sky PPV?

[SAPFO]

If it was ITV Primetime 8pm it would draw maybe 15 million viewers, but would it make as much money?

Don't forget that 60k 'buys' x maybe 3 per household, accounting for pubs/clubs etc..

[Finn]

Maybe just maybe, Khan is not so despised as people think - or people want to pay to see him lose.

People here were anticipating at most 10,000 buys. Now he's done over five times that, people still are not convinced and making up excuses - even questioning the accuracy of the PR.

I'm sure the Irish contingent and the Sky thing enhanced the sales - but 60K represents good sales and maybe Sky did underestimate the selling power of McCloskey or Khan (for whatever reason).

Why can't we just hold our hands up and say "it surprised me" and sales indicate it was worthy of being on PPV (whether we think it was a PPV worthy fight or not). It might also indicate why TV companies haven't been banging the door down in Nottingham.

Good post

Im not convinced 50k buys proves it ppy worthy. Thats pretty poor viewing figures for any program aired on tv. And i like khan - some fights are worth going to ppv some arent. If a fight is going to get 500k buys then thats a ppv fight anything else is pointless and looses the sport fans.

[SAPFO]

Maybe just maybe, Khan is not so despised as people think - or people want to pay to see him lose.

People here were anticipating at most 10,000 buys. Now he's done over five times that, people still are not convinced and making up excuses - even questioning the accuracy of the PR.

I'm sure the Irish contingent and the Sky thing enhanced the sales - but 60K represents good sales and maybe Sky did underestimate the selling power of McCloskey or Khan (for whatever reason).

Why can't we just hold our hands up and say "it surprised me" and sales indicate it was worthy of being on PPV (whether we think it was a PPV worthy fight or not). It might also indicate why TV companies haven't been banging the door down in Nottingham.

Good post

Im not convinced 50k buys proves it ppy worthy. Thats pretty poor viewing figures for any program aired on tv. And i like khan - some fights are worth going to ppv some arent. If a fight is going to get 500k buys then thats a ppv fight anything else is pointless and looses the sport fans.

Mate, your missing the point. 60k BUYS (each purchase of £15 + pubs/clubs where there could be upto 500 watching 1 'buy'! Each buy was watched by X amount of people. Not a man sitting in a room on his own. The 'viewing figures' were not 60k. They were much more.

[girv]

It doesn't work like that at all. A limited company isn't quoted on the stock exchange. It doesn't have a stock market value, and the only ones privy to the actual figures would be the directors/accountants. They have to post profit and loss, but the directors are under no obligation to reveal actual PPV figures to anyone other than their accountants and shareholders (which are limited to fifty, if it is a limited company).

Yeah your right and most companies will start out as Limited companies with limited liability, started like that myself but i'm presuming a company like primetime which has been going for a few years may have gone public and floated shares in order to expand.

Exittored, not all companies go to the stock market to expand. Some of the biggest companies in the world are not PLC (or, more accurately, Open Joint Stock Companies). If you want to expand, and need capital to do so, there are all kinds of other ways to generate that -- like loans from banks, syndicated loans, bringing in new strategic or private equity investors, or simply tapping the bond market. Most PLC/OJSCs also tap those other sources during the year -- General Electric have bond holders as well as share holders -- but many just sell bonds without ever selling equity. In fact, until very recently, and I think perhaps even still, the bond market was far, far bigger than the stock market.

Most big companies -- and PrimeTime, if it's a standalone company and not a subsidiary of a larger media holding, is most certainly not a 'big company' -- are probably not publicly listed companies.

Meantime, I see no reason why anyone's going to outright lie about the number of sales they've done. And if they've done anywhere in the 50,000-60,000 range, I reckon that's a tremendous effort. It might not mean loads of money for Khan (but you have to factor in the gate receipts to his take, and it looked fairly full), but it surely must be a success for PrimeTime, who only had days to promote the fight.

It would be nice to see them do well, I think. From a fan's perspective, they've made a huge effort, showing fights that Sky don't bother with and offering them, in my view, at a fair price for a boxing fan who wants to see as much quality action as he can. I wish them every success, as Sky having a total monopoly can't be a good thing -- on several levels.

Agree completely

[Glyn Leach]

I'm hearing that the 50,000 figure being bandied around was before the Virgin Media sales were added in and that it could end up over 70,000 when all figures are counted.

Would 50,000-70,000 have been a success on Sky? Of course not, it would have come nowhere near to covering the huge guarantees Sky had made to the Khans - and had Sky gone ahead with the show as a PPV they would have been held to that guarantee, that's why they came up with the non-PPV, reduced purse offer.

Would the fight have sold more than 50,000-70,000 as a Sky PPV? We'll never know. But I think we can guess it was never going to deliver the big numbers that Sky originally thought it would when it offered the Khans a seven-figure PPV purse — Sky certainly seem to have guessed as much and I trust their judgement on this.

At the end of the day, the real winners from this were Primetime - they're the only ones who ended up with more money than when all this started. And the Khans made the best of a bad situation - earning less than the original Sky PPV offer, but more than the revised non-PPV Sky offer. But Sky got no payday at all and after having spent money on publicising the fight before the Khan's took it to Primetime they're the only party to have ended up with less than when they started as far as I can see.

[Coco]

I would imagine this is their biggest success as Khan is a big name, whereas Froch under Hennessy hasn't had the exposure

[Finn]

Good post

Im not convinced 50k buys proves it ppy worthy. Thats pretty poor viewing figures for any program aired on tv. And i like khan - some fights are worth going to ppv some arent. If a fight is going to get 500k buys then thats a ppv fight anything else is pointless and looses the sport fans.

Mate, your missing the point. 60k BUYS (each purchase of £15 + pubs/clubs where there could be upto 500 watching 1 'buy'! Each buy was watched by X amount of people. Not a man sitting in a room on his own. The 'viewing figures' were not 60k. They were much more.

no they're not mate entertainment buys eg pub buys, do not equal 1 buy - thats well known. I believe it is counted as 20 buys for a small pub then based on size or value so could equal up to anything like 100 buys even more.

[stujones]

I'm not 100 percent sure Primetime is available in pubs, although I think Carl was also refering to families etc. People bring friends over to watch on the tele at home - now that will equate to one buy, but more than one viewer.

[SAPFO]

no they're not mate entertainment buys eg pub buys, do not equal 1 buy - thats well known. I believe it is counted as 20 buys for a small pub then based on size or value so could equal up to anything like 100 buys even more.

Consider me educated on that point kingfinn

stujones

yes, that one still stands though.

[Bricks]

Not a chance that it did 50000 buys, if it was half that id be surprised

Primetime have already confirmed that it's their highest selling PPV beating any Froch fight they've shown and various boxing websites have reported Primetime telling them it did at least 50,000 PPV buys.

Let me tell you how it works, Primetime is a limited company and probably has share holders and a stock market value, if in any way they release information or fail to correct any information that would increase their stock market value they would be liable for a big fine or even possible fraud charges.

all limited companies have a shareholder or shareholders. Only public limited companies have en masse shareholders, and are responsible for being accurate........but i take your point, and its a very well made one

[Finn]

Bottom line is - if sky had done 50k buys they would have seen it as a failure and a big one at that.

[leforge]

I'm not 100 percent sure Primetime is available in pubs, although I think Carl was also refering to families etc. People bring friends over to watch on the tele at home - now that will equate to one buy, but more than one viewer.

Primetime was not available in pubs .