BoxRec

Mitchell may start off boxing, but fancies himself as a banger. He punches ok but not a massive hitter. That will be his downfall.

He will start to trade, Murray does't have KO power either but, on the inside, he is better.

Mitchell gets ground down and stopped late.

Just the way I see it, could be worng, of course

Definately not PPV. If it is, there are Streams aplenty

Forget the Katsidis fight - a fit Kevin Mitchell boxes the ears off Murray all night long

TheSilentOne wrote:Forget the Katsidis fight - a fit Kevin Mitchell boxes the ears off Murray all night long

I strongly agree and if Kevin can't be arsed to get in great shape for this then rickshere should kick his arse. It is a massive fight; I hope both get into great shape and prove who is the very best in Europe at the weight.

boxbet wrote: I agree also. Murray is fit , hard and strong but lacks boxing ability.

Have a word with yourself

its a fair call chambers, Murray's no Willie Pep.

Counter-puncher wrote:its a fair call chambers, Murray's no Willie Pep.

Does it not take boxing ability to be a come forward aggressive fighter?

You don't win British and Euro titles without boxing ability IMO

Chambers2 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:its a fair call chambers, Murray's no Willie Pep.

Does it not take boxing ability to be a come forward aggressive fighter?

You don't win British and Euro titles without boxing ability IMO

He didn't say Murray has no boxing ability. He said he lacks it. That's relative.

point taken but you do realise you've opened the gates for Autobarn to come in and give a gruff critique of flashy combinations and footwork as against solid punching technique etc... ?

anyways yes of course it takes boxing ability to be a pressure fighter. but that seems to be pretty much Murray's only game so his boxing ability is a bit limited.

IE just one example if he ever gets hurt properly we'll see if he's got the boxing ability to get on his bike and ride out tough rounds with movement defence etc instead of just steamrollering people one-dimensionally

12 - 18 months ago I thought one of them (at least) would win a world title, now I'm not so sure. Mitchell (for me) is a little fragile at 135, can be prone to binning his boxing to have a tear up and seems to be prone to outside the ring distractions. However he boxed very well vs Prescott and basically stood him on his head which was very impressive

Murray can be flat footed, struggle to change gears at times and isn't the hardest to hit. I also feel that I over-rated his power when he was coming through. He's more a Hatton style knock out artist, wear you down with body shots and his physical strength.

I edge to Mitchell as I believe that if he trains properly and listens to Tibbs' game plan then he can out box Murray in the first 7-8 rounds and stay clear enough of any damage during that time to see it through to the end in the last four. If he trys to stand and trade with Murray he'll get ground down and stopped in the last four. Mitchell's fight to loose, his game plan and tactics will show whether he has World title potential at 135 in the future.

For interest I still think he could have outboxed Katsidis. He just went in all over the place, head in the clouds and he isn't strong enough to do that in the first 8 rounds with guys like Katsidis and Murray

Counter-puncher wrote:point taken but you do realise you've opened the gates for Autobarn to come in and give a gruff critique of flashy combinations and footwork as against solid punching technique etc... ?

anyways yes of course it takes boxing ability to be a pressure fighter. but that seems to be pretty much Murray's only game so his boxing ability is a bit limited.

IE just one example if he ever gets hurt properly we'll see if he's got the boxing ability to get on his bike and ride out tough rounds with movement defence etc instead of just steamrollering people one-dimensionally

Points taken also, just thought it was a disrespectful to say our Euro Champ lacks boxing ability. As that's not how I view him, basically I'm saying that pressure fighters boxing abilities are under-rated IMO

no doubt

actually one thing you will see with the 'Gallagher style', Crolla does this very well, yes he comes into range with his hands round his face, but he has a way of leaning in and drawing a shot, taking ti on his gloves or rolling with it, and coming back with hard counters.

it doesn't look like a classical boxer's counterpunching a la Floyd but it is certainly the art of drawing a punch and countering off it.

actually re boxing skills i would say Crolla has a bit more 'rounding' to him than Murray in the way i was suggesting above- when hurt against Sykes (to the body i think it was) he got on his bike, and did some excellent rolling on the ropes to get away from punches. i think Crolla's feet are considreably lighter than Murray's so he's got a little head-start in terms of the versatility of his boxing.

Counter-puncher wrote:no doubt

actually one thing you will see with the 'Gallagher style', Crolla does this very well, yes he comes into range with his hands round his face, but he has a way of leaning in and drawing a shot, taking ti on his gloves or rolling with it, and coming back with hard counters.

it doesn't look like a classical boxer's counterpunching a la Floyd but it is certainly the art of drawing a punch and countering off it.

actually re boxing skills i would say Crolla has a bit more 'rounding' to him than Murray in the way i was suggesting above- when hurt against Sykes (to the body i think it was) he got on his bike, and did some excellent rolling on the ropes to get away from punches. i think Crolla's feet are considreably lighter than Murray's so he's got a little head-start in terms of the versatility of his boxing.

I was drooling over Crollas title winning performance against John Watson, it was a textbook outing. Becoming a fan of his

Surprised to see his next outing on the 18th June is for the WBA inter-Continental title (fcuk off), rather than a defence of his newly won British title. Seems strange!!

aye I've got a fairsize mancrush on Crolla myself.

he gets his hands back to the guard position by his chin as quickly as anyone I've ever seen, great fundamentals.

King Geedorah wrote:

ShadrachSimmo wrote:

Autobarn wrote: i thought lee mac won 2 rds at most, though it was tense and competitive. the scottish fighter had to pay for any success he had, because he was fighting at an uncomfortable pace and getting worn down - which is exactly what i expect murray to do to mitchell, to slowly break him down. i enjoyed that fight, as murray proved he could beat a mobile boxer.

Macallister looked as if he the tools to beat Murray. Lots of movement lots of angles Murray looked baffled at times but in the end Macallister stood in front of him and paid the price.

Yeah, I was there that night. I can clearly remember Lee building up a lead using movement and then going back to the corner and saying, “You know what, this is working so well that I’m going to ditch my movement for some inexplicable reason and just stand in one spot.”

Then I got home and watched the tape and started to suspect that Murray’s body punching, pressure and ability to cut off the ring, rather than just follow his man around, may have had a little bit to do with Lee’s decision to stand there and get battered in the biggest fight of his career.

David Coldwell later added fuel to my fire of suspicion by claiming that Murray’s ability to cut the ring down and work opponents onto shots had taken him and McAllister completely by surprise.

It was becoming very confusing, I dipped into my Henry Cooper’s Book Of Boxing and discovered that there is more to movement than just movement. James DeGale, considered a flash, technical boxer failed to cut the ring down the other night and paid the price. So maybe Murray’s ability to motor across the canvas is underrated, along with his ability, due to the fact that he doesn’t do a jig, shake his tassels and shout “I’m about to move” prior to every movement.

heh. good stuff.

this is a thing about fighters moving/stopping movement. people often assume they start trading more, often in the middle rounds, by way of some sort of choice, rather than through what fighter B did to precipitate the said change in fighter A's tactics.

also re the last bit this factors into something datsue and myself have talked about, that great movement doesn't always advertise itself as such by way of a fighter circumnavigating the ring non-stop at 60mph (call it the Khan-as-runaway-locomotive syndrome), but is often expressed my much subtler shifts which are carefully attuned to the opponet's movements (call it the JMM-is-god syndrome), and in which a 15 inch movement can often be more effective than all the Khan-style galloping in the world.

i'll still say, though, that as and when Murray is called to backtrack and leg it when hurt or whatever, I am not sure he has the basic footspeed to do it all that effectively at top level

'backtracking' was really a euphemism for footwork not directly engaging with your man, but yeah point taken.

am thinking, say, periods of McCallum - Toney 1 when Toney's landed big shots and Mike just has a little walk around to ease off the tempo a bit.

for some reason i can see a hurt Murray just stading there all straight-backed where having a little walk would buy him 30 crcucial seconds or so

King Geedorah wrote:

ShadrachSimmo wrote:

Autobarn wrote: i thought lee mac won 2 rds at most, though it was tense and competitive. the scottish fighter had to pay for any success he had, because he was fighting at an uncomfortable pace and getting worn down - which is exactly what i expect murray to do to mitchell, to slowly break him down. i enjoyed that fight, as murray proved he could beat a mobile boxer.

Macallister looked as if he the tools to beat Murray. Lots of movement lots of angles Murray looked baffled at times but in the end Macallister stood in front of him and paid the price.

Yeah, I was there that night. I can clearly remember Lee building up a lead using movement and then going back to the corner and saying, “You know what, this is working so well that I’m going to ditch my movement for some inexplicable reason and just stand in one spot.”

Then I got home and watched the tape and started to suspect that Murray’s body punching, pressure and ability to cut off the ring, rather than just follow his man around, may have had a little bit to do with Lee’s decision to stand there and get battered in the biggest fight of his career.

David Coldwell later added fuel to my fire of suspicion by claiming that Murray’s ability to cut the ring down and work opponents onto shots had taken him and McAllister completely by surprise.

It was becoming very confusing, I dipped into my Henry Cooper’s Book Of Boxing and discovered that there is more to movement than just movement. James DeGale, considered a flash, technical boxer failed to cut the ring down the other night and paid the price. So maybe Murray’s ability to motor across the canvas is underrated, along with his ability, due to the fact that he doesn’t do a jig, shake his tassels and shout “I’m about to move” prior to every movement.

Agreed Murrays body punching was very effective in the mid rounds of that fight. Lee had the right gameplan but didnt stick to it. Even Youssef Al Hamidi gave Murray problems. But Murrays certainly improved he's never gonna be the next Sweetpea but a good boxer should get by him with ease.

^^^ all true on Mitchell's vs McAllister's footwork, i think mate

but there's an upside to Mitchell's- more predictable than McAllister's but wastes less energy, too.

It will be interesting to see Murray when he's on the backfoot. Kudriatsev had pockets of success coming forward but noones really been able to stand toe to toe with him.

A word of warning to anyone thinking about going to this and staying over...I'm doing the Bupa London 10k run the next morning (along with about 20,000 others), and every hotel I've looked at for that night is full.

King Geedorah wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:^^^ all true on Mitchell's vs McAllister's footwork, i think mate

but there's an upside to Mitchell's- more predictable than McAllister's but wastes less energy, too.

Meant Al as in Hamidi. McAl is McAllister. My name shortening needs to step up, step off or adopt a lateral approach.

ha. well McAllister's feet have a bit of the scalded feet on a hot tin roof to them anyway.....

greenyox3 wrote:A word of warning to anyone thinking about going to this and staying over...I'm doing the Bupa London 10k run the next morning (along with about 20,000 others), and every hotel I've looked at for that night is full.

Good luck with the run; that's a fair old trek.

Re-up Gang wrote:i like mitchell in this on points.
he outboxed prescott whenhe was focused and he will outbox murray who is slower less rangy and hits slight less hard than prescott.
murray however when on form works teh body well, but i am certain mitchell will be ready for him and i will bet large on mitchell.

well done, mitchell won some money for me. there r levels in boxing as there r in life and mitchell was slightly above murray and has been as of recent times.

well done to both guys, thrilling fight and i am sure everyone enjoyed it.

murray needs to make smll adjustment with his defense i guess but am sure he will be back also.

mitchell just needs to keep improving and he'll be able to crack world level again soon.

This result was a small victory for the sport imo. It saw skill and speed (mixed in with toughness and grit) overcome Murray's sheer brawn and brute strength.

liamlion wrote:This result was a small victory for the sport imo. It saw skill and speed (mixed in with toughness and grit) overcome Murray's sheer brawn and brute strength.

Totally agree. It's always nice to see someone who boxes with intelligence, skill, speed and inventiveness overcome someone who just ploughs forward in a straight line. I really, really enjoyed lots of Mitchells work and I'm not a big Mitchell fan.

fights like that make everything seem right in the world of boxing. completely made up for the two hours of zzzzzzzzzz's that preceded it