BoxRec

I know Grag Page was in VERY bad shape after suffering head injuries in his last fight, but I believe these were sustained by falling onto an unprotected area of the ring apron, rather then anything relating to dehydration...

Goz wrote: That was a great night, on the undercard of Lewis-Grant wasn't it?

Yeap. Clinton Woods getting off the floor to stop Klemetson wasn't a bad appetiser either.

Maxboxing's James McDonnell is spot on when he says that very few heavyweights have been involved in ring fatalities. There have been deaths of course. Two Ali opponents, Sonny Banks and Alejandro Lavorante, were both killed in later fights in the 60's. Another well-known American, Ed Sanders, who won a controversial Olympic final with Ingemar Johannson in 1952, also died as a pro.
In this country, Ulrich regis died against Joe Bugner.
But if you comapre that to the number of small men who've died, it's nothing.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:There is definite medical evidence to support the claims that being weight drained and dehydrated increases the risk of brain injury.

For one thing statistically heavyweights almost never sustain brain injuries whilst actually in the ring, it's very rare indeed, and I think I am right in saying there hasn't been a death in the ring of a heavyweight in the last 50 years.

Apparently, from what I've read on the matter, the fluids which surround the brain get reapsorbed to an extent when the body gets dehydrated, and even the tissues of the brain itself, which is extremely watery can contract. This means that not only does the brain have less fluid to cushion it, but because the brain has contracted, it doesn't fit quite as snugly into the cranium, making the liklihood of a small tear in the blood vessells surrounding the brain far more likely when the skull is jarred.

Suppose a fighter has weighed in at the 10 stone limit. It is often remarked how a fighter may, on fight night be closer to 11 stone.
For the sake of argument, suppose a fighter put on 7lbs in 24 hours before a fight, that is going to be all water isn't it?
My understanding is that the body re-hydrates quite quickly... does anyone know different? Doesn't that fluid make it to the brain?

If this is not the case, perhaps moving the weigh in another 24 hours forward would allow more hydration for the fight (but possibly less fairness in terms of actually fighting weights when the first bell rings).

Dynamite Dean Phillips wrote:Frank Maloney suggested having fans installed on the cameras so as to make the ring cooler.......excellent suggestion, so why the hell hasn't it been done yet?.....to the average fight fan sitting at ringside, these changes may not mean a whole lot, but can mean the difference between life and death for a fighter.

Light moves through air pretty well. If you are standing 20 feet away from a powerful light source such as camera lights), the light will heat you up no problem.
However, a fan has to move air, which is not so easy. If your standing 20 feet from a fan and can feel anything, chances are it's a pretty big fan.

It wouldn't work. You'ld need fans the size of James Toney's belly.

The suggestion of fans on the Camera's is a bit ludicrous to be honest.

The problem is not the temperature in the ring, by the time a fighter who has killed himself to make weight gets in the ring,

It's also notable that heavyweights who allow themselves to get badly out of shape and then muller themselves to make weight, tend to have shorter careers.

Look at the difference between Riddick Bowe and Evander Holyfield. Holy, though the older man by quite some way, stayed near his peak far longer than Bowe, who looked shot as early as his 3rd fight with Evander.

By the time he got to Golota, his balance and punch resistance were obviously diminished? Why?

One could argue that by balooning up to near 300 lbs near fights, and then boiling down to make weight, Bowe was putting himself throuh exactly

Another reason that lighter fighters are more likely to get badly affected, is the ratio of bodyweight they have to lose.

If you weigh only 115 lbs, and you're 10 lbs over the limit at fight time, that's a whopping 8.6% of your bodyweight. That's the equivalent of a 225 trim heavyweight, having to lose nearly 20 lbs overnight.

Bigger fighters also have more body fluids, basically the bigger you are the more blood and water your body has in store, to safeguard against dangerous levels of dehydration. Only heavyweights who really allow themselves to go to pot in the run up to a fight, are going to seriously dehydrate them.

I think that's why old heavyweights tend to be the ones who get done, they are more likely to be grossly out of shape between bouts.

Hasim Rahman is another one who looks to have fallen way past his physical peak despite not having turned 30 all that long ago. The damage caused by ballooning between fights looks irreversible now.

James why do so many of your posts end up with chunks missing?

It safe to say that the majority of the great fighters who have long careers do not tend to balloon in weight, apparently Bernard Hopkins walks around at Middleweight all of the time. Wayne McCullough (while he might not be considered a great) certainly had a long career again never ballooned in weight.

Look at Riddick Bowe, shot at 30.

The fact that Steve Pollard claimed that Ingle would often be as big as 12 stone when starting the early training for a fight speaks an awful lot. Its not as if Ingle was even a big feather (what was he 5 foot 5).

A very fit man usually when in the fight, but the fact that he wasn't all the proffesional for the intervining periods probably shortend his career drastically.

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A very fit man usually when in the fight, but the fact that he wasn't all the proffesional for the intervining periods probably shortend his career drastically.

You are right Stu,

That reinforces my point that a fighter should never let his weight go 5% above his total body weight at any time, whether in training or not.

As some of you here are aware, I had a five and a half year total break from boxing to concentrate on a degree. During that whole time, I never at any time weighed more than 10 stone 2 lbs, because it was always my plan to return to the ring. Besides that, I live a disciplined life when it comes to eating, drinking and all the other temptations life throws at you. I think this is an important point. So many fighters let themselves go when they aren't in serious training; because of the fact that they have been deprived when training for a fight, they think its okay to over indulge; its been the downfall of many a fighter.

With regards to Ingle, how a 5 ft 5 inch Featherweight can let themselves balloon to 12 stone is beyond me. It cannot be doing the body any good whatsoever, and the penalty would obviously be far more greater to a fighter of championship level. It's hard enough getting yourself ready for a championship contest in normal circumstances, without the hassle of getting a few stones in weight off to go with it.

When I returned to the gym after the long break, my weight was exactly 10 stones 1 lb. Toning down to Lightweight was a breeze because of the way I lived. However, I have been a victim of weight draining in the past.....I was weight drained in the Peter Judson fight; I came in at a career lightest 9st 1lb. If you consider that I was a natural Lightweight at the time, you can see how I collapsed with dehydration and exhaustion in the later part of the fight. I have learned the lesson the hard way, which is why I am now fighting at my natural weight; the weight I live at.

It wouldn't work. You'ld need fans the size of James Toney's belly.

Okay, so get fans the size of James Toney's belly....they may not do any good, but considering the fact that fighters are dying in the ring or being seriously injured, I think anything is worth a try. Any fighter will tell you that there is a hell of a difference in fighting on a televised show compared to fighting on a non-televised show. My last fight was a non-televised show where there were no powerful television lights to contend with, and I felt great in there. Fact is, you tire twice as quickly when you have that heat piercing down, and believe me, I am not exaggerating here....it is really warm in a boxing ring under those conditions.

Yes Dean you are correct, statistically it would be interesting to figure out the amount of ring tradegies/near tradegies the occured in an outdoor arean, compared to an indoor arena.

BTW, don't quote me on Ingle's height, I have checked it up - just I know he wasn't a big Feather and wasn't alot bigger than Hamed. I think he was 5 foot 5, but again I emphasise I haven't checked.

I would imagine that outdoor fights would have a lower percentage of the mentioned injuries, but again it would depend on where the bout took place. If you consider when McGuigan fought Steve Cruz in that blistering heat (Las Vegas desert if my memory serves me right)..didn't McGuigan tire dramatically in the later part of the fight?

I would certainly think that untelevised fights (with no television camera lights) would have a far lower percentage than televised. Having said that, most title fights are now televised, so it would be difficult to compare the two; I cannot remember the last time a high profile title fight took place on a non-televised show.

Dynamite Dean Phillips wrote:I would imagine that outdoor fights would have a lower percentage of the mentioned injuries, but again it would depend on where the bout took place. If you consider when McGuigan fought Steve Cruz in that blistering heat (Las Vegas desert if my memory serves me right)..didn't McGuigan tire dramatically in the later part of the fight?

I would certainly think that untelevised fights (with no television camera lights) would have a far lower percentage than televised. Having said that, most title fights are now televised, so it would be difficult to compare the two; I cannot remember the last time a high profile title fight took place on a non-televised show.

Going on memory (which as my blunders on other threads have shown - it might not be a good thing) I'm pretty sure less ringside injuries take place in an outdoor areana. I believe Reulas vs Garcia was outdoor, but that was an absolute pummeling. I can't think of any others in recent times, wheras it occurs more frequently in indoor rings.

McGuigan did tire very quickly in the heat of Vegas, but didn't suffer any brain injuries.