BoxRec

earsjohn wrote:

dutchie wrote:

earsjohn wrote: But what is wrong with him going straight for the Number 1 guy? Is losing to the number 1 guy (given how little hope he has of winning apparently) significantly worse than beating, say, Sylvester and Lee and then losing to Martinez? I just don't get the logic. If he's fit, hungry and wants the fight then bloody well go for it. Your argument that he should go for another belt holder helps support the ABC's who insist on divvying up their titles to the extent there are now at least 7 guys calling themselves Middleweight Champion of the World (you missed Hassan N'Jikams WBA Interim title and Martinez is the WBC Diamond Belt holder as well as the Ring Magazine Champ).

The difference is if he beats the likes of Lee and Sylvester then he is proven at a world level where at the moment he is proven at European level,and entitled to a crack then.

So a victory over, say, Andy Lee or Sebastien Sylvester would move Darren up one of these intangible levels? By that reckoning, Andy Lee is already closer to the Martinez level so surely he should be looking for a fight with Martinez rather than lowering himself to fight a no-hoper like Barker?

johnswan1 wrote:

earsjohn wrote:

dutchie wrote: The difference is if he beats the likes of Lee and Sylvester then he is proven at a world level where at the moment he is proven at European level,and entitled to a crack then.

So a victory over, say, Andy Lee or Sebastien Sylvester would move Darren up one of these intangible levels? By that reckoning, Andy Lee is already closer to the Martinez level so surely he should be looking for a fight with Martinez rather than lowering himself to fight a no-hoper like Barker?

So do you think every fighter should be looking for a world title shot on his pro debut given you have such little regard towards working up to a title shot by building up experience against increasingly difficult opponents?

stujones wrote:I'd love to see this in the UK, I would love Barker to pull it off but I would go to this one primarily to see Martinez in action.

chinny wrote:Can't criticise Barker if he takes it but it will most likely turn out like:

JCC v Holligan
Winky v Bingham
Cotto v Jennings
Pavlik v Lockett

joelouis1234 wrote:I like Darren he's a good boxer but where is the power to keep Martinez at bay we saw against Dzinziruk how a well schooled but not overly strong boxer does against him.

LeedsLad wrote:Great news if this can be made.

Realistically it's going to be very hard for him but it's a brilliant opportunity. If he loses he'll learn far more than staying at European level waiting for a weak champion.

earsjohn wrote:

johnswan1 wrote:

earsjohn wrote: Or ask Ricky Burns what going in with someone called Martinez who is a huge favourite when you have supposedly no chance can do for you.

I really don't get this criticism. Barker has been at Euro level for a while, and had he not had to take so much time out he could well be "ready" for a world level fight. If Macklin can fight Sturm and not get criticised then why shouldn't Barker go after the biggest man in the division. It wasn't long ago that going after "the man" at a weight class was considered the only way to get credit, now it seems that more kudos is placed on going after a weaker champion in order to get a belt rather than trying to prove oneself alongside the elite.

The only belt Martinez has is the Ring Magazine belt. He's also ranked no.2 P4P in the world by The Ring. Other beltholders he could go after are:

Felix Sturm - WBA Super
Gennady Golovkin - WBA Regular
Julio Cesar Chavez, Jr. - WBC
Daniel Geale - IBF
Dmitry Pirog - WBO

Would it really be so difficult getting a fight against one of these guys? We all want Barker to do well, but Martinez is not only the best in the division, but one of the best in boxing. Barker needs to take on a couple of top ten contenders (see below) before he should be going after somebody like Martinez. Of course he could give a good showing and it may raise his profile and lead to better things, but his chances of winning would be extremely slim. Outside of Martinez I wouldn't rule him out against any of the others.

Top 10 Middleweights

1 Sergio Gabriel Martinez
2 Felix Sturm
3 Daniel Geale
4 Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam
5 Dmitry Pirog
6 Andy Lee
7 Marco Antonio Rubio
8 Sebastian Sylvester
9 Julio Cesar Chavez Jr
10 Matthew Macklin

But what is wrong with him going straight for the Number 1 guy? Is losing to the number 1 guy (given how little hope he has of winning apparently) significantly worse than beating, say, Sylvester and Lee and then losing to Martinez? I just don't get the logic. If he's fit, hungry and wants the fight then bloody well go for it. Your argument that he should go for another belt holder helps support the ABC's who insist on divvying up their titles to the extent there are now at least 7 guys calling themselves Middleweight Champion of the World (you missed Hassan N'Jikams WBA Interim title and Martinez is the WBC Diamond Belt holder as well as the Ring Magazine Champ).

Tko1980 wrote:Would much rather see barker v Martinez than burns v cook!
Sick of fighters/ promoter looking for easy touches, weak champs and moody defences! Even if he did lose got to give him credit and respect for stepping up to the plate!
We have to get behind our boys, hasn't done any harm to mathew hatton

Final round wrote:

Tko1980 wrote:Would much rather see barker v Martinez than burns v cook!
Sick of fighters/ promoter looking for easy touches, weak champs and moody defences! Even if he did lose got to give him credit and respect for stepping up to the plate!
We have to get behind our boys, hasn't done any harm to mathew hatton

True, Hatton did very well in losing against Alvarez but Martinez is very experienced, at a higher level and jumping in with a obviously better fighter doesn't always benefit what good did it do Lockett, Jennings and Elcock?

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Final round wrote:

Tko1980 wrote:Would much rather see barker v Martinez than burns v cook!
Sick of fighters/ promoter looking for easy touches, weak champs and moody defences! Even if he did lose got to give him credit and respect for stepping up to the plate!
We have to get behind our boys, hasn't done any harm to mathew hatton

True, Hatton did very well in losing against Alvarez but Martinez is very experienced, at a higher level and jumping in with a obviously better fighter doesn't always benefit what good did it do Lockett, Jennings and Elcock?

Hey, look what happened to Jeff Lacy - and he was at a higher level than Barker is. His career ended that night against Calzaghe.

J-C wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Final round wrote: True, Hatton did very well in losing against Alvarez but Martinez is very experienced, at a higher level and jumping in with a obviously better fighter doesn't always benefit what good did it do Lockett, Jennings and Elcock?

Hey, look what happened to Jeff Lacy - and he was at a higher level than Barker is. His career ended that night against Calzaghe.

This is true but I think part of that was that he genuinely believed his own hype and of the people around him and was mentally shattered when it did not come off. He really thought he would smash Calzaghe and it would be a stepping stone to multi-weight glory.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

J-C wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Hey, look what happened to Jeff Lacy - and he was at a higher level than Barker is. His career ended that night against Calzaghe.

This is true but I think part of that was that he genuinely believed his own hype and of the people around him and was mentally shattered when it did not come off. He really thought he would smash Calzaghe and it would be a stepping stone to multi-weight glory.

You dont think the 1008 shots he got smashed in the head with might also have been a factor?

Tko1980 wrote:to have your name even mentioned with one of the p4p best must be an honour! Full respect to him and his team

Deserter wrote:

Tko1980 wrote:to have your name even mentioned with one of the p4p best must be an honour! Full respect to him and his team

I'm not being rude, but why? Surely the respect and honour only comes from stepping in the ring with them?