Lennox to fight on...

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 07 Jan 2004, 09:52

jamesmcdonnell wrote:There were definite improvements in Vitali, I cannot believe you couldn't see them.

Admittedly he was up against a barrell of lard, but Vitali fought far more aggressively than usual, and went looking for the KO, instead of waiting for it to happen like he used to.

Vitali definetly looked better balanced, and his handspeed looked markedly better to me.

I just can't believe Klitschko, at 32, suddenly improved like that. Sure he didn't fight anything like the same fight for Johnson as he did for Lewis but that's because he had nothing to beat.

Lewis v Klitschko II is all about whether Lewis can raise his game one last time. Klitschko is just Klitschko, his style has been the same for years. He won't do anything different in a rematch with Lewis I guarantee it.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 07 Jan 2004, 11:10

What's so hard to believe about that, Roach is a phenomenal trainer, and what he has done is tidy up Vitali's unsound fundamentals, teaching him proper balance, how to hook off of the jab, how to throw the jab with force, and lent him more confidence in his abilities, whereas before Vitali relied on size and his own awkward style.

I do agree however, that it's easy to look new and improved if your opponent allows you to impose your gameplan, Lewis obviously won't be as conducive to allowing Vitali to whale away at him, and stick him with the jab.

However, Vitali did manage to outjab Lewis in portions of their fight, and Roach has obviously worked on getting him to throw it harder and more often.

Lewis has always struggled with fighters who could jab, Mercer, Holyfield, Mavrovic......and will always do so, because his jab is his primary weapon, it's like Sampras' serve.

Without the jab, Lewis doesn't have a great deal of versatility, good as he is, he's a bit of a one trick pony, jab-jab, right cross, jab-jab, left hook, jab-jab-jab.

If, and it's a major if, Lewis is unable to dominate the fight from early on with the jab, then he will be forced into the trench warfare of last time. A more composed and confident Vitali may well get the better of him.

Believe me, were this bout taking place two years ago, I would pick Lewis unequivocally, he's a much better fighter than Vitali, and more athletically talented, but time is a great leveller.

Kilburn · Post by **Kilburn** » 07 Jan 2004, 11:25

Well, I'll try to reserve judgement until the rematch comes around. One things for sure, Klitschko certainly won't be any worse than last time which means Lewis will have to up his game if he wants to avoid another punishing slugfest.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 07 Jan 2004, 11:50

I think Vitali is probably a better fighter, not so much from his short time with Roach but from the confidence he'll have gained by giving Lewis such a good fight.
He now knows he can take hard punches from a guy like Lewis - before their fight he couldn't have been 100% sure.

He's got that awkward style of leaning slightly back and sticking out his jab, using that height to full advantage. It seems to work well for him.

That big right hand could still KO Lennox if it lands with full force, but I'd go with LL to win the rematch impressively.

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 07 Jan 2004, 16:02

Good point about the jab JM, but the first time round Lewis won the battle of jabs imo, he was knocking Klitschko back a step with them, rememniscent of Liston (high praise indeed) and that's how he took control of all the rounds that he won, three to my mind incidentally. if only he always used it properly instead of pawing, I doubt he'd have half as many detractors.

bennie · Post by **bennie** » 07 Jan 2004, 17:46

The New York Daily News is predicting that world heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis will indeed be back in the ring this year and taking on mandatory challenger Vitali Klitschko in a rematch of their memorable bout last year in Los Angeles.
Lewis' trainer Emanuel Steward was quoted as saying that he feels Lewis will be back and Adrian Ogun, Lewis' longtime business partner, is taking a more active role in the champ’s affairs, according to the report.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 08 Jan 2004, 07:21

Boxingtalk are reporting that Lewis has made the Germans an offer that they have now accepted. They are just waiting for him to sign the dotted line.

HBO have an April date they are keeping free for Lewis...

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 08 Jan 2004, 08:19

I actually think there is design in Lewis pawing with the jab, it frustrates his opponents and loosens their guard, creating openings for the lead right hand.

However, I too would prefer to see Lewis thumping home the jab with authority more often, he does have the best jab in heavyweight boxing by a long way, it's like being hit with a telegraph pole.

However, for the first 3 rounds against Vitali, he was finding it very hard to land the jab, due to his timing being off. This is what worries me about the rematch, he may find it even harder to get sharp, and if he goes 4-5 rounds and is unable to land the jab, I wonder whether he can get away with brawling with Vitali.

Although I would rather see Lewis retire, I will really be looking forward to this fight if it happens.

Wouldn't it be nice if this fight was held in the UK? Won't happen of course.

REAL_DEAL · Post by **REAL_DEAL** » 08 Jan 2004, 08:24

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Although I would rather see Lewis retire, I will really be looking forward to this fight if it happens.

Wouldn't it be nice if this fight was held in the UK? Won't happen of course.

if a new chelski type owner came along :P

Chambers · Post by **Chambers** » 16 Jan 2004, 06:40

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3401781.stm

sounds promising

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 16 Jan 2004, 06:44

Chambers wrote:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/3401781.stm

sounds promising

Quotes like this really don't do Vitali and favours:

"I beat Lennox Lewis the first time and I will be ready to beat him the second time. If he doesn't want to fight me, I will fight Corrie Sanders instead."

Just for that if I were Lennox I'd refuse to give him a rematch out of pure spite.

And people criticise Lewis for being a bad loser when he said his opponent landed a lucky punch, at least he doesn't pretend he won the fight!

mrbassie · Post by **mrbassie** » 16 Jan 2004, 06:49

I'd say that was the uppercut talking

Chambers · Post by **Chambers** » 16 Jan 2004, 06:51

mrbassie wrote:I'd say that was the uppercut talking

What an uppercut 8) , Vitali has got some chin

Priff · Post by **Priff** » 16 Jan 2004, 07:26

Goz wrote:And people criticise Lewis for being a bad loser when he said his opponent landed a lucky punch, at least he doesn't pretend he won the fight!

I agree with you completely about Klit talking shit.
But come on, Lewis' "I'm still the champ" rants, in the ring after the 1st Hasim Rahman fight are on a par with VK's crazy-talk.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Jan 2004, 07:52

I thought Lewis' total lack of respect for Vitali after the 1st fight was pretty piss poor, but it's in keeping with what most heavyweight champs do.

In the 3rd Bowe v Holyfield fight, after Holyfield dropped Bowe like a sack of shit, Bowe afterwards claimed that he was totally in control when he was rooted in his own corner for a minute. Utter bullshit of course.

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 16 Jan 2004, 07:57

Priff wrote:
Goz wrote:And people criticise Lewis for being a bad loser when he said his opponent landed a lucky punch, at least he doesn't pretend he won the fight!
I agree with you completely about Klit talking shit.
But come on, Lewis' "I'm still the champ" rants, in the ring after the 1st Hasim Rahman fight are on a par with VK's crazy-talk.

I honestly don't recall Lewis saying that.....

Goz · Post by **Goz** » 16 Jan 2004, 08:02

jamesmcdonnell wrote:I thought Lewis' total lack of respect for Vitali after the 1st fight was pretty piss poor, but it's in keeping with what most heavyweight champs do.

I thought people went stupidly overboard about this 'lack of respect' crap that Lewis was supposed to have shown.

Lewis actually said the words (reluctantly) "Yeah sure I give him respect" when prompted by Merchant. And anyway who gives a toss?

Lewis had just come out of a 6 round war, the guy he had just beaten was still leaping around the ring trying to fight Lewis and screaming he had been shafted, and people want to get on Lewis's jock for not saying he wants to give Vitali a blowjob? Incredible.

Chambers · Post by **Chambers** » 16 Jan 2004, 08:14

Goz wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I thought Lewis' total lack of respect for Vitali after the 1st fight was pretty piss poor, but it's in keeping with what most heavyweight champs do.
I thought people went stupidly overboard about this 'lack of respect' crap that Lewis was supposed to have shown.

Lewis actually said the words (reluctantly) "Yeah sure I give him respect" when prompted by Merchant. And anyway who gives a toss?

Lewis had just come out of a 6 round war, the guy he had just beaten was still leaping around the ring trying to fight Lewis and screaming he had been shafted, and people want to get on Lewis's jock for not saying he wants to give Vitali a blowjob? Incredible.

Agreed, Larry Merchants interviewing style after the fight was IMO extrememly disrespectful to Lewis

, especially considering he is the champ and had just won the fight. Merchant is a prick, was it him who interviewed James Toney after the Holyfield fight?, if so he got treated in the manner which he deserved

i.e. utter contempt.

Audley Harrison has been the victim of provocative interviews (Garry Richardson is another prick

) after winning contests on the BBC which resulted in alot of unnecessary bad publicity, I bet it doesn't happen now that he is their prize HW asset

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 16 Jan 2004, 08:16

As I said, it's fairly par for the course, but I thought Lewis would have shown a bit more dignity had he actually admitted that Vitali gave him a hard fight, he made himself look a bit stupid that's all.

I think Lewis really did think he was going to roll all over Vitali, and when he didn't he didn't really appreciate Merchant rubbing his nose in it as he saw it.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 16 Jan 2004, 08:33

Priff wrote:
Goz wrote:And people criticise Lewis for being a bad loser when he said his opponent landed a lucky punch, at least he doesn't pretend he won the fight!
I agree with you completely about Klit talking shit.
But come on, Lewis' "I'm still the champ" rants, in the ring after the 1st Hasim Rahman fight are on a par with VK's crazy-talk.

To be fair to Lewis, he was probably still concussed after taking that massive right hand punch.
I remember Marlon Starling arguing with Larry Merchant that he hadn't been knocked out. HBO replayed the vid for him, showing him unconcious on the canvas.

It was the reptile-like Jim Grey (?) who interviewed Toney after the Holy fight.

I like Lewis, who I always hear is one of the genuine nice guys of the game, but he's a lousy interview that's for sure. He just seems to freeze up a bit when he's being interviewed on camera.

I don't think I've ever heard him interviewed without him using the phrase "Most definitely"

Chambers · Post by **Chambers** » 16 Jan 2004, 08:35

jamesmcdonnell wrote:As I said, it's fairly par for the course, but I thought Lewis would have shown a bit more dignity had he actually admitted that Vitali gave him a hard fight, he made himself look a bit stupid that's all.

I think Lewis really did think he was going to roll all over Vitali, and when he didn't he didn't really appreciate Merchant rubbing his nose in it as he saw it.

Every question Merchant asked was regarding how good Vitali was, he did not make one positive comment about Lewis. I don't think that Lewis thought he would roll over Vitali, but I also don't think he thought the fight was going to be that difficult. The majority of educated boxing fans (Lennox included) new that this was the fight between the best 2 heavyweights around and although Lennox might have said Vitali was not fit to share a ring with him (before the fight) it was just the usual pre-fight mouthing off that goes on before the majority of the big contests.

IMO Lewis would have won that fight if it hadn't have been stopped on cuts, he was beginning to land the bigger shots and IMO he would have stopped him in the later rounds. Taking nothing away from Vitali who IMO along with Lewis are head and shoulders above the rest. I think Lewis will win by KO in the next fight, approximately round 9

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 17 Jan 2004, 06:59

Merchant: Well Lennox, you said he had no skill level and no heart, What do you say now?
LL: Well, you would have seen if the fight went on... they should have stopped it.
Merchant (cutting him off): No, they didn't stop it. What do you think of him now after 6 rounds?
LL: He's OK... what do you want me to say?
Merchant: I want you to say what you see. What is a harder fight than you expected.
LL: No, not really. The thing is, the fight got stopped too soon. If you had of seen him in the later rounds, he would of probably quit
Merchant: All 3 judges had him ahead at the time of the stoppage.
LL (Grabs the Mike): Listen, he would have got knocked out straight away. he was basically deteriorated anyway, so I don't even know what you're talkin about Larry.

I'm too lazy to type the rest.

When you compare that to Merchant interviewing Vitali, you see that Merchant was much nicer to vitali.