Reid may get a rematch

[jamesmcdonnell]

Riddick, you reckon he could have put it beyond doubt do you?

Try this for size mate.

I spoke to Brian Hughes, he told me Jess Harding managed to sneak a look at the cards between rounds 5 and 6 and told Hughes that Robin was down by 3 rounds going into the 6th on 2 cards, and 2 down on another....

So how the fornicate do you figure Robin could have won if he continued in that vane, even with shutting Ottke out totally for the 1st 4, he's 3 rounds down on 2 cards going into the 6th.

That means that of the first five, Ottke got four rounds! Even though there was only 1 round which could possibly have gone to Ottke, the 5th, which in fact I scored even at best for Ottke. On the other card, Reid was down by 2 rounds, meaning that Ottke has taken 3 rounds and 1 even.

Isn't it obvious from that scoring that the judging was rigged? How else could Reid get only 1 of the first 5 rounds, despite being the only man landing punches in the first 4 rounds?

That's another reason Robin changed tactics after the 5th, he was told he was losing the fight, and he was.

There is no way on gods earth Reid could have won that fight, the referee and the judges were obviously under instruction to prevent Ottke winning at all costs.

[Bard of Boxrec]

i was referring to the 115-113 judge's decision, twice. dunno about the other scorecard. What I meant was, if reid had continued with his tactics he employed in the first few rounds, he could have taken a couple more rounds, but i forgot about the bogus scoring for the first 5 rounds...

i never thought about the idea that the judges may have totally made up the final scorecards to make it seem closer in an attempt to avoid more controversy, cos this MUST be what happened.i just assumed they gave Reid the first 5 and ottke the rest, or reid the first 4 and one of either the 11th or 12th.

[beduff]

james,do u think the ref will ever be in charge of another ottke fight?and what about the judges?

[MightyWarrior]

I still think he blew it.
Just because the ref warned him for hitting Ottke legit' , doesn't mean he should stop hitting him, otherwise you may as well just pack up your bags and go home.
If he'd managed to KO Ottke and the ref had called it a DSQ, the replays would've got him his rematch anyway.
Lewis had similar problems with a biased ref against Tyson ( though not as bad as Reid's )

I all else failed it's clear what his tactics should've been: Aim a roundhouse as Sven, narrowly miss and clock the ref cleanly on his handlebar mustache.

I saw Willie DeWitt employ similar tactics in the amatuers. He hit the fussy ref square on the chin and the bloke went stiff as a board, before twirling round and landing flat on his back. A new ref was brought in.
It was perfect. 8)

[beduff]

blew it,stop typing shit.hit the ref lose your money,very clever mighty warrior.besides he would have had to knock all the judges out also.talk sense.can you not see the big picture,the ref was there to dis hearten reid [and stop him hitting ottke] to try and make ottke look impressive[it would take more than a ref to do such a impossible task]and even if the ref failed the judges would have ottke winning anyway.

[adamiw]

Reid should win the rematch, i would be surprised if they employ such a disgraceful referee. However, you could say that Ottke was starting to work out Reid, and may not lose so many rounds in the rematch.

[jamesmcdonnell]

There is of course the possibility that if Ottke HAS to actually fight, he will do a lot better, but I'm not convinced.

I'll tell you something interesting, Roger Tillerman was appointed referee under very very dubious circumstances, and before that fight had NEVER refereed a world title fight before.

In fact, as far as I understand it, he had refereed just ONE professional fight prior to that night, having been an amateur referee previously, I am not even aware whether he was an official IBF referee.

Now isn't that something. Factor in the fact that promoters were seen having dinner with the IBF representatives, the judges and the referee in the hotel where Ottke was staying, and you have a very very tidy little arrangement going on.

I'll be doing an update for maxboxing this week, when the lowdown dirtyness will be revealed for all...

[bennie]

Robin Reid will learn on January 22 whether or not he has secured a rematch with Sven Ottke. Belgian referee Roger Tilleman's disgraceful bullying of Reid so infuriated promoter Jess Harding that he paid $10,000 - plus other expenses - to have five IBF appeal stewards review the fight.
The US-based organisation will now make a ruling based on their findings on January 22.

[Lickszz]

[quote="jamesmcdonnell"]Riddick, you reckon he could have put it beyond doubt do you?

Try this for size mate.

I spoke to Brian Hughes, he told me Jess Harding managed to sneak a look at the cards between rounds 5 and 6 and told Hughes that Robin was down by 3 rounds going into the 6th on 2 cards, and 2 down on another....

[/quote]

This would make sense because around the mid way point you could clearly hear Reids corner tell Reid that he was 3 rounds behind, and Reids response was "what, your f'king joking aren't you".

[Bard of Boxrec]

If i was jess harding, i would've prioritised my complaint by stressing the disgrace of the scoring of the first 5 rounds rather than the terrible refereeing. I think there's more chance of the IBF officials agreeing that Reid blatantly won the first four rounds- and thus bogus scoring- than them seeing the bad refereeing. They could just weasel out of the refereeing debate by saying that Reid was in fact using his head too much and deserved a point deduction, but it's much more difficult to justify Reid being 3 rounds down after 6 when Ottke didn't land a punch in these rounds.

also the final 115-113 result is still baffling me- surely if Reid was 3 rounds down after the 6th, the biased judges couldn't have given Reid any more rounds after that? eg the judge's 115-113 scorecard would have to have been something like-

1. 9-10 Reid
2. 9-10 Reid
3. Ottke 10-9
4. Ottke 10-9
5. Ottke 10-9
6. Ottke 10-8 (bogus point deduction)

(after 6, 58-55 Ottke (because Reid is 3 rounds down)

after this it's hard to imagine the judges giving any rounds to Reid, but lets say they gave him the 11th:

7. Ottke 10-9
8. Ottke 10-9
9. Ottke 10-9
10 Ottke 10-9
11 9-10 Reid
12 Ottke 10-9


this means overall the judges scorecard should've been 117-110 for Ottke.

In order for the score to be 115-113, bearing in mind Reid was 3 rounds down after 6, Reid would have to have taken 3 out of the final 6 rounds with one even:

7. Ottke 10-9
8. Ottke 10-9
9. Even 10-10
10. 9-10 Reid
11. 9-10 Reid
12. 9-10 Reid

(second half, Reid 58-57. Overall- 115-113 Ottke).

After the first half of the fight was scored for Ottke, could Reid really have won the second half on the judges' cards? I think not.

The scores, apart from the third scorecard, were totally made up. The third scorecard was something like the one I worked out at the top. If everyone knew this already then sorry.

So, do you think they made up the two scorecards to try and avoid controversy about an unsuitably huge winning margin for Ottke?

[jamesmcdonnell]

I do think that they have brought the scoring of the first 5 rounds to the attention of the IBF officials.

[steve689]

That is very interesting info about Tillerman James, it was only his second pro bout?! Ridiculous. I don't want to defend his totally corrupt performance whatsoever but i was watching the fight again the other day and the incident when Reid is repremanded for throwing a punch Tillerman indicates just after that he thought the punch was landed with the inside of the glove. Just trying to clear it up, it was still scandalous but that's what he tried to indicate to cover his bad decision.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I have heard he has some amateur experience, but the only occassion I can find where he was involved in an official capacity, was many years ago when he was JUDGE, in an IBF intercontinental title fight, again appointed by IBF Italian representative Monetti, or whatever his name is.

The point is though, the punch that Reid threw was in fact blocked in any case by Ottke if you watch closely, so that being the case, how can he warn him for it? I would need to watch it again to see whether it was with the inside.