BoxRec

keithmoonhangover wrote:

rhino222 wrote:not once did i see haye duck adn weave to get close to klitschko and get under his jab, klitschko is not unique in this one step back and lean back style, its quite commonplace in european fighters, tino hoffman used to do it, vitali does it and george kandelaki used to do it.

the only secret is that when they take one step back then you must take 2 or 3 steps forward before you unload.

You make it sound so easy Rhino.

It's not meant to be bloody easy! That's why he was being handsomely paid.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

rhino222 wrote:not once did i see haye duck adn weave to get close to klitschko and get under his jab, klitschko is not unique in this one step back and lean back style, its quite commonplace in european fighters, tino hoffman used to do it, vitali does it and george kandelaki used to do it.

the only secret is that when they take one step back then you must take 2 or 3 steps forward before you unload.

You make it sound so easy Rhino.

It's not meant to be bloody easy! That's why he was being handsomely paid.

Haye must have exceeded your expectations though James. You didn't think Haye would survive getting hit, which he did. You were wrong about that mate.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: You make it sound so easy Rhino.

It's not meant to be bloody easy! That's why he was being handsomely paid.

Haye must have exceeded your expectations though James. You didn't think Haye would survive getting hit, which he did. You were wrong about that mate.

And? Nobody said I'm right all the time. I expected Haye to be coming forward a lot more, and with the added momentum of moving in, and with Wlad getting more opportunities to punch, I expected Haye to eventually get stopped.

Haye stood up ok, but Wlad didnt land much in the way of hard flush shots, only a handful.

Haye failed to live up to my expectations, I espected him to lose, but I expected him to make a fight of it while it lasted.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: It's not meant to be bloody easy! That's why he was being handsomely paid.

Haye must have exceeded your expectations though James. You didn't think Haye would survive getting hit, which he did. You were wrong about that mate.

And? Nobody said I'm right all the time. I expected Haye to be coming forward a lot more, and with the added momentum of moving in, and with Wlad getting more opportunities to punch, I expected Haye to eventually get stopped.

Haye stood up ok, but Wlad didnt land much in the way of hard flush shots, only a handful.

Haye failed to live up to my expectations, I espected him to lose, but I expected him to make a fight of it while it lasted.

I take it you're not a Haye fan then.

Haye never risked winning, he decided to survive rather than try to win

agreed after all the vitriol he fought scared.

you dont win at the top level with a punch output of 10 15 predictable shots a round.

pisspoor. walk the walk or fack off.

now its time for haye to do one.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:I agree Haye did his best. He made Wlad miss time and time again, but he couldn't make him pay. The people saying he didn't try are just trying to punish him because they've lost face by predicting him to win. He made Wlad miss like an idiot round after round, landed a few bombs and gave Wlad a "pizza face", without getting one himself, as Klitschko had promised. He also didn't run, he stood against the ropes for extended periods, using amazing reflexes to avoid punches. As disappointing as the result was, I think Haye has a lot to be proud of.

I predicted all along he would lose, read my posts, but I'm still having a pop at him as I dont think he tried anywhere near hard enough for what he was paid.

I think he has little to be proud of, I entirely disagree.

Compare Danny Williams effort against Vitali, totally hapless but he would have walked through fire to try and win.

Totally disagree, a hap-hazard but brave effrot resulting in a KO would have been a awful out come and Haye would have looked like another clueless also-ran.

I agree with Nobby it was a decent effort but just not good enough, far from the work off a fraud as some idiots have been portrying him, obviously terribly dissapointed Wlad didn't make mincemeat of him and that he even won a few rounds!

I think 9 times out of time Wlad beats him. There was really nothing more he could have done, apart from going all out in the last 3 rounds, which would have probably ended getting himself knocked out.

He tried his best I guess, that's all he could do.

Less of the flashy flash and more punches was what he needed. No point throwing ones and two`s, he needed to sustain an attack, which he never managed at any point in the fight.

I was sat about 10 feet away from Haye in the airport lounge on the way back home. He was with his family and looked fine apart from a few marks under his right eye. I was as disappointed as anyone at the fight, but seeing the guy there with his little girl sat on his knee and knowing he was going to face a massive barrage of abuse from the press etc, I did feel for him.

However, I guess when I think that he earned a fortune and his pre fight antics left a lot to be desired, I can`t help thinking you get what you deserve.

The fact is, he actually did well to last 12 rounds in there without being in serious trouble. He is a smart man, a terrific athlete and a charasmatic salesman. He just wasn`t willing to "risk it" in there.

In answer to the thread question.

No. Not by any stretch.

If you think he did, presumably you think either:

a) the injury was massively debilitating
b) he's shite, at that level at least

I know it's not the first, or even the thousandth time that a fighter hasn't backed up his boasts. But it is the sheer, enormous disparity between chat and performance that gets me. Not the defeat at all, but the manner of it.

big lennox wrote:
I read a nasty article on Haye in the Telegraph this morning (not my paper of choice) where it said Haye is now a diminished figure.Well, if unifying the cruiserweight division, beating some big(gish) names at heavyweight (winning a title in the process) and losing over 12 in a super event and earningy handsomely in the process, constitutes being a diminished figure then I want to be one too.

Some of the journalists seem to delight in kicking someone when they are down.

I haven't read (presumably) Gareth's piece yet but don't be rolling out the old 'journalists kicking them when they are down' line for this one.

Haye has been hugely diminished by his performance.

I was absolutely disgusted to hear Haye on radio this morning talking up the prospect of a rematch. Not the sheer gall of even mentioning one but again, his manner of doing so. Why did he want one? Revenge? A chance to restore his honour? To give something back to the fans who bought into the nonsense he was spouting?

No.

"Because when Wlad looks at the numbers he'll realise he can't generate that type of money by fighting anyone else."

nobby_nobbins wrote:I agree Haye did his best. He made Wlad miss time and time again, but he couldn't make him pay. The people saying he didn't try are just trying to punish him because they've lost face by predicting him to win. He made Wlad miss like an idiot round after round, landed a few bombs and gave Wlad a "pizza face", without getting one himself, as Klitschko had promised. He also didn't run, he stood against the ropes for extended periods, using amazing reflexes to avoid punches. As disappointing as the result was, I think Haye has a lot to be proud of.

Well, it's nice to focus on the positives, I suppose.

He should have been much more aggressive. He wasn't prepared to be. This wasn't a Rhodes-Alvarez scenario where he would definitely have been done. On the couple of occasions Haye 'put it on him', Wlad sh1t himself and hugged him like he was his woman.

Haye just wasn't prepared to lay it on the line on this occasion - the biggest occasion of all.

Quite frankly, I'll never believe another word he says.

big lennox wrote:

Deserter wrote:

big lennox wrote:where it said Haye is now a diminished figure.

It's a relative term though - compared to his stature pre-fight, he is a dimished figure. The post-fight interview in particular is a great example of a PR disaster.

I know what you are saying, but the telegraph piece makes out that he was just a pretender and never was, which is not the case.Is Nadal suddenly an over-rated player because he lost to Dokjovic?

Haven't read the original piece but hard for me to comment. It's certainly not fair to regard him as a never-was, but it's possible to argue that he's been a pretender at heavyweight over the past couple of years.

big lennox wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:I agree Haye did his best. He made Wlad miss time and time again, but he couldn't make him pay. The people saying he didn't try are just trying to punish him because they've lost face by predicting him to win. He made Wlad miss like an idiot round after round, landed a few bombs and gave Wlad a "pizza face", without getting one himself, as Klitschko had promised. He also didn't run, he stood against the ropes for extended periods, using amazing reflexes to avoid punches. As disappointing as the result was, I think Haye has a lot to be proud of.

I agree

x 2 if wlad had been the same size as haye, wlad would not have won.

Haye and booth used the tactics i personally thought would work before the fight, coming in light, looking to drop a bomb, make wlad miss (and wlad did look like a fool at times), and also go to ground as soon as wlad leans on him so not to waste energy.

Now im wondering if haye had come in heavy like he did against Ruiz and just planned for an 8 round fight, putting it all on the line. would it have worked?
But then what top heavyweight would want to take a massive risk like that when theres a big big chance of running out of steam or being ko'd.

Could haye come again? possibly i think he would have to be willing to gamble it 50/50 taking the chance he could get ko'd and just go for broke from round one kinda like Collins did against eubank. He'd also have to beat maybe arreola and povetkin then go for vitali for alot less of the purse. It all just depends on what haye is willing to do and if he wants to retire. I also think haye will have to stop being a counter puncher and become the predator he was at cruiser weight, which with his size will be difficult. BUT you dont always need to be big to control centre ring when you have the punch power to back your opponents up.

The american promoters said at the weigh in they would still want to bring him to america even if he looses, if he beats arreoal and then another respected opponent povetkin, boystov someone like that in the US then he will have something the Klits want again - fame and the chance to fight in vegas on US ppv.

When you have something to loose it makes you more cautios - and that is the difference between Haye and Wlads other opponents - Haye had something to loose so had to be more cautios, the others didnt they just could be arsed they had nothing to loose but still didnt put it on the line - with the acception of arreola he went out to fight but couldnt be bothered to get in shape..

Theres no shame in loosing to wlad over 12 rounds especially since he didnt even get hurt, made wlad look silly and was the smaller man, with a broken toe (although i dont think we can blame that for the loss) however to beat wlad you need all your tools. Also wlad was sat at the press conference looking like he lost the fight with a cracked nose and black eye, haye just had a bit of a swollen lip. Haye wasnt the only one making big claims wlad was saying he was going to destroy haye and punish him - FAIL!!!

Christ...he made Wlad look silly by losing by between six and ten rounds, did he?

I do take your point that he did make him look silly at times by making him miss but if you then do absolutely f*ck all about it, what use is that?

I can only sum it up by saying this - he would rather have lost a lop-sided points decision than try and win it by taking a risk.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Christ...he made Wlad look silly by losing by between six and ten rounds, did he?

I do take your point that he did make him look silly at times by making him miss but if you then do absolutely f*ck all about it, what use is that?

I can only sum it up by saying this - he would rather have lost a lop-sided points decision than try and win it by taking a risk.

Yep have to agree, the Klits were right, when it came time to put up, he didn't want to know.

Can't believe he's got the brass neck to say he "deserves a rematch" - why on earth do we want to see that again?

Weirdly, it seems both boxing news and boxing monthly really enjoyed the fight, so presumably Haye will get a good write up.

He's not once said he deserves a rematch; merely that he hopes he gets one.

I imagine the write ups will reflect that Haye put in a performance against a bigger, superior opponent that, while not living up to his own pre-fight boasts, still gave Wlad his toughest fight in 6 years. A blown up cruiser, with no chin wasn't rocked once, only shipped a few heavy rights while being kept on the end of the devastating wlad jab. Taken in that context, Haye deserves a little credit.

He's quoted in the standard tonight as saying he deserves a rematch, because he made Wlad so much money.

MightyWarrior wrote:He's quoted in the standard tonight as saying he deserves a rematch, because he made Wlad so much money.

You mean this story? http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard- ... trainer.do

He never once says or implies that he deserves a rematch. It's simply lazy, opportunist journalism/editing by headlining the story in the way they have done. Same as the video on sky sports website that is titled 'Haye demands a rematch' before going on to show Haye saying that he'd like a rematch but acknowledges it's not his choice to make.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Christ...he made Wlad look silly by losing by between six and ten rounds, did he?

I do take your point that he did make him look silly at times by making him miss but if you then do absolutely f*ck all about it, what use is that?

I can only sum it up by saying this - he would rather have lost a lop-sided points decision than try and win it by taking a risk.

Thats what i meant and i did address your other points in the post.

MightyWarrior wrote:

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Christ...he made Wlad look silly by losing by between six and ten rounds, did he?

I do take your point that he did make him look silly at times by making him miss but if you then do absolutely f*ck all about it, what use is that?

I can only sum it up by saying this - he would rather have lost a lop-sided points decision than try and win it by taking a risk.

Yep have to agree, the Klits were right, when it came time to put up, he didn't want to know.

Can't believe he's got the brass neck to say he "deserves a rematch" - why on earth do we want to see that again?

Weirdly, it seems both boxing news and boxing monthly really enjoyed the fight, so presumably Haye will get a good write up.

Good , I enjoyed the fight too and didn't expect it to be a Bowe/Holyfield for the modern age.

kingfinn wrote:

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Christ...he made Wlad look silly by losing by between six and ten rounds, did he?

I do take your point that he did make him look silly at times by making him miss but if you then do absolutely f*ck all about it, what use is that?

I can only sum it up by saying this - he would rather have lost a lop-sided points decision than try and win it by taking a risk.

Thats what i meant and i did address your other points in the post.

You're making it out that Haye did quite well. We'll just have to disagree on that. Or what it looks like is that I was simply expecting more of him than he was capable of.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:I agree Haye did his best. He made Wlad miss time and time again, but he couldn't make him pay. The people saying he didn't try are just trying to punish him because they've lost face by predicting him to win. He made Wlad miss like an idiot round after round, landed a few bombs and gave Wlad a "pizza face", without getting one himself, as Klitschko had promised. He also didn't run, he stood against the ropes for extended periods, using amazing reflexes to avoid punches. As disappointing as the result was, I think Haye has a lot to be proud of.

Well, it's nice to focus on the positives, I suppose.

He should have been much more aggressive. He wasn't prepared to be. This wasn't a Rhodes-Alvarez scenario where he would definitely have been done. On the couple of occasions Haye 'put it on him', Wlad sh1t himself and hugged him like he was his woman.

Haye just wasn't prepared to lay it on the line on this occasion - the biggest occasion of all.

Quite frankly, I'll never believe another word he says.

Me either - I always thought he had bugger all chance, but the way he fought, he had zero chance. The only way he beats Wlad is to follow up when he lands, and throws combinations, keeping wlad off balance and on the back foot. Wlad doesn't like being hit, but he's smart enough to beat someone who only potshots.

Haye made a cold, calculated decision, to lose, go the 12 rounds, collect his paycheck, and not get hurt. For 6 million quid, that's a pretty reprehensible approach, when the fans are writing a lot of that paycheck.

Here's my take on it.
http://www.8countnews.com/news/125/ARTI ... 07-04.html

jamesmcdonnell wrote: http://www.8countnews.com/news/125/ARTI ... 07-04.html

Agree with every single word/syllable/letter in this article

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:

nobby_nobbins wrote:I agree Haye did his best. He made Wlad miss time and time again, but he couldn't make him pay. The people saying he didn't try are just trying to punish him because they've lost face by predicting him to win. He made Wlad miss like an idiot round after round, landed a few bombs and gave Wlad a "pizza face", without getting one himself, as Klitschko had promised. He also didn't run, he stood against the ropes for extended periods, using amazing reflexes to avoid punches. As disappointing as the result was, I think Haye has a lot to be proud of.

Well, it's nice to focus on the positives, I suppose.

He should have been much more aggressive. He wasn't prepared to be. This wasn't a Rhodes-Alvarez scenario where he would definitely have been done. On the couple of occasions Haye 'put it on him', Wlad sh1t himself and hugged him like he was his woman.

Haye just wasn't prepared to lay it on the line on this occasion - the biggest occasion of all.

Quite frankly, I'll never believe another word he says.

rhodes AND haye, fought horribly, acheiving very little, taking few chances, in fights in which they had to DAMAGE their opponent. haye certaibly talked too much garbage, and he and booth should rightly be the 2 most hated in the UK when the sky bills come in. but re rhodes, he was some 15 years between title shots (both of them hugely disappointing) and would not take a chance and the yanks who saw it saw little difference between rhodes and witter.

haye definitely did the letdown at a far higher level, though.

hopefully he will adopt amore humble approach, buckle down and get a new attitude, because he sucks.