BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

kamicazze wrote:Ok here's a question for you all. Haye as a heavy is not much bigger than a Joe frazier or Muhammad Ali. How would they have fard vs Wlad given the size difference? could it be that the good big guy does beat the good little guy? I personally think a style similar to foremans or Tyson's would have beat Wlad. Frazier would be too small IMO. I'm think Mike Perez stands an excellent chance against Wlad, Not so much against Vitali.

A pot Shotter such as James Toney to beat Vitali
Pressure fighter like Arreola or Perez to beat Wladimir
Something truly special to beat both

Foreman too powerful, too relentless and underrated ring skills.
Holmes, too fast, two handed, great stamina and underrated strength, plus great chin.
Ali, too quick, so many punches, so much movement, he would be the one I'd pick to stop Wlad.
Frazier, slower, smallest reach, but could Wlad handle the pressure and constant rolling, he sure wouldn't stop Frazier.

Agreed. Can Wlad handle the punch output of Frazier? How long before he gets points deducted for holding? And if he starts giving ground what can he do, as he's not shown the ability to fight on the retreat. The other three matches are easier to predict.

all of a sudden everyone wants to dismiss haye...fine he didnt do what he was meant to..and evidently he made himself the most hated man in boxing before with his big talkehaviour,,tasteless b and than his failure to back it up......but his point about wladimir stands, he is too cautiou and robotic....as great as his other attributes are....based on the problems Haye ( finally an athletic old skool 210-215 lbs talented black heavyweight gave him....I have no doubts that a 1980's HW like witherspoon, ruddock, dokes,pinklon thomas, or spinks on their best day would have given wladimir a hard night....ruddock in particular in his prime would have beaten wladimir of that I am sure....the problem with these men apart from ruddock and spinks was they werent consistent and if they werent at their best the consistent wladimir outpoints them......but Frazier,Dempsey, Ali,Liston Foreman, Holmes, Holyfield, Marciano?? those guys win every time but wladimir is getting closer and closer to being a Top 12 HW

kamicazze wrote:Ok here's a question for you all. Haye as a heavy is not much bigger than a Joe frazier or Muhammad Ali. How would they have fard vs Wlad given the size difference? could it be that the good big guy does beat the good little guy? I personally think a style similar to foremans or Tyson's would have beat Wlad. Frazier would be too small IMO. I'm think Mike Perez stands an excellent chance against Wlad, Not so much against Vitali.

A pot Shotter such as James Toney to beat Vitali
Pressure fighter like Arreola or Perez to beat Wladimir
Something truly special to beat both

Do you mean bigger as in muscle or height? because Haye (and Ali) are both considerably taller than Frazier. I think Frazier is about 5'11" and both Ali and Haye are 6'3.5". Haye>Frazier in height is an even bigger difference (slightly) than Wlad>Haye.

It's hard to tell how guys from the 70's etc would fare against Wlad imo because he's a super-heavy and a size of guy that wasn't really seen or encountered in those days. I'd like to think Frazier could do the biz as he's one of my favourite fighters of all time - and I think constant pressure like his is the key to beating Wlad if you could take his shots.

mkirkhope wrote:

kamicazze wrote:Ok here's a question for you all. Haye as a heavy is not much bigger than a Joe frazier or Muhammad Ali. How would they have fard vs Wlad given the size difference? could it be that the good big guy does beat the good little guy? I personally think a style similar to foremans or Tyson's would have beat Wlad. Frazier would be too small IMO. I'm think Mike Perez stands an excellent chance against Wlad, Not so much against Vitali.

A pot Shotter such as James Toney to beat Vitali
Pressure fighter like Arreola or Perez to beat Wladimir
Something truly special to beat both

Do you mean bigger as in muscle or height? because Haye (and Ali) are both considerably taller than Frazier. I think Frazier is about 5'11" and both Ali and Haye are 6'3.5". Haye>Frazier in height is an even bigger difference (slightly) than Wlad>Haye.

It's hard to tell how guys from the 70's etc would fare against Wlad imo because he's a super-heavy and a size of guy that wasn't really seen or encountered in those days. I'd like to think Frazier could do the biz as he's one of my favourite fighters of all time - and I think constant pressure like his is the key to beating Wlad if you could take his shots.

This is getting beyond a joke now talking about Wlad in the same sentence as people like Ali and Frazier...

Don't just take people out of different era's without upgrading their height and weights if they were around today.

For example Ali in 1967 was 25 years old and around 6ft 3inches tall and 15st which was considered a big heavyweight back then but if he was around today he'd have probably grown to 6ft 5inches and filled out to around 17st which would have more then matched todays heavyweights and you would have to downgrade Wlad if he was around in the 1960's.

keithmoonhangover wrote:With the exception of Vitali. Who stands the best chance if they fought in say 3 months time.

I'll go with Povetkin. He's accurate, fast and in his prime.

There are plenty of Heavyweight who would have a chance of beating Wladimir, he just hasn't faced them yet or big brother Vitali already has wins against them.

Of the up and coming Heavyweight i'd go for Robert Helenius and Chris Arreola(the new fitter version) around a year from now and Denis Boytsov when he gets back to full fitness and get's a few more wins under his belt. Ideally just because boxing needs an American Heavyweight i'd like to add Deontay Wilder and Seth Mitchell although both are still untested and probably 18/24 months away yet from challenging but i've liked what i've seen of both so far.

i have no doubt Odlanier Solis has the talent to beat Wladimir and Vitali but unfortunately his may never get a shot again at either due to his freak inury during the Vitali fight.

Finally i'd throw in Shannon Briggs just because according to Manny Steward, Wlad was frightened of him and didn't want to fight him when they were due to a few years ago. He's just the type of boxer who could have soaked up an absolute beating for around 10 rds and then caught Wlad with a big punch and ended it.

Someone tough, brave, big and powerful.

Not David Haye, that's for sure.

Luis Ortiz. I'll say it again. Luis Ortiz. I'm waiting for this guy to step it up and for him to be shown on TV. This guy is it!

povetkin has the best chance, but he wont be ready for another 2 years !

exittored wrote:i have no doubt Odlanier Solis has the talent to beat Wladimir and Vitali but unfortunately his may never get a shot again at either due to his freak inury during the Vitali fight.

The greatest waist of boxing talent of his generation.

exittored wrote:

mkirkhope wrote:

kamicazze wrote:Ok here's a question for you all. Haye as a heavy is not much bigger than a Joe frazier or Muhammad Ali. How would they have fard vs Wlad given the size difference? could it be that the good big guy does beat the good little guy? I personally think a style similar to foremans or Tyson's would have beat Wlad. Frazier would be too small IMO. I'm think Mike Perez stands an excellent chance against Wlad, Not so much against Vitali.

A pot Shotter such as James Toney to beat Vitali
Pressure fighter like Arreola or Perez to beat Wladimir
Something truly special to beat both

Do you mean bigger as in muscle or height? because Haye (and Ali) are both considerably taller than Frazier. I think Frazier is about 5'11" and both Ali and Haye are 6'3.5". Haye>Frazier in height is an even bigger difference (slightly) than Wlad>Haye.

It's hard to tell how guys from the 70's etc would fare against Wlad imo because he's a super-heavy and a size of guy that wasn't really seen or encountered in those days. I'd like to think Frazier could do the biz as he's one of my favourite fighters of all time - and I think constant pressure like his is the key to beating Wlad if you could take his shots.

This is getting beyond a joke now talking about Wlad in the same sentence as people like Ali and Frazier...

Don't just take people out of different era's without upgrading their height and weights if they were around today.

For example Ali in 1967 was 25 years old and around 6ft 3inches tall and 15st which was considered a big heavyweight back then but if he was around today he'd have probably grown to 6ft 5inches and filled out to around 17st which would have more then matched todays heavyweights and you would have to downgrade Wlad if he was around in the 1960's.

The OP specifically asked how they would fare against Wlad 'given the size difference' so I assumed that's what he was asking and not how they would have fared had they grown to be today's size. I think you are a bit off with the height differences through the ages though - the average American is only 1 inch taller now than in 1960 so even if you do convert Ali & Fraziers height to todays height Frazier would still give away half a foot (!) to Wlad which is an incredible amount. Ali would be 6'4" now.

I think it's intersting and fun to compare fighters of different eras as they were at the time (like they do every week in boxing news) and try and predict what would happen. It doesn't mean you think those fighters belong in the same company in terms of ability or legacy - its just sometime interesting to try and picture in your head what would happen.

ps I agree with you about Solis - he was hitting Vitali with some very decent stuff before the injury and it's a shame what happened will maybe stop him being taken as seriously now as a challenger.