BoxRec

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

Gazmac81 wrote:cant get more skilled than Ali surely

i loved holyfield though back in the day , balls of steel

Ali did not have a good body punching skills of even a great inside game, (other than pulling peoples heads down which was very good)so no mate Holyfield is the beter all rounder.

Where was Holyfield's inside fighting against Riddick Bowe?

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
NO.

Louis was chinny and slow of foot,
Ali did not have an all round skill set no body punching etc etc..
Holmes slow of foot could not throw a hook of the jab.

C'mon any of you experts BRING IT!

I would counter by saying that Holyfield wasn't as accurate as Ali, Louis and Holmes.

He also didn't have as good a jab as them.

He also had a lot less power than Louis.

A good a jab if not better, the reason? he threw 3 types, staight jab (which even outjabed Bowe & Lewis at times and also a good 'up jab', HOWEVER Holy's double jab was the stuff of legend! he gave people with good jabs fits, for long periods he outjabbed Bowe who's jab (who's IMO) was the equal of Alis and Holmes (as in straigh jab from a big man).

Accurate?? ffs go back and look at Holys career, mate you are dead wrong here.
Go back and look at the combo the finished Tyson in the 1st fight, Tysons head was like a magnet to Holy's fists, sure Ali finishing Foreman was great but look at this from 6.01 secs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_IenOmK20

Is there a better HW COMBO finish at the highest level than this?

Methinks not!

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
Ali did not have a good body punching skills of even a great inside game, (other than pulling peoples heads down which was very good)so no mate Holyfield is the beter all rounder.

Where was Holyfield's inside fighting against Riddick Bowe?

Lol this must be a wind up or now your just being naive or silly or trollish.

Thats about all they did in the 2nd fight and Holy out-fought him on the inside and the outside.

He could adapt that was the point.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: I would counter by saying that Holyfield wasn't as accurate as Ali, Louis and Holmes.

He also didn't have as good a jab as them.

He also had a lot less power than Louis.

A good a jab if not better, the reason? he threw 3 types, staight jab (which even outjabed Bowe & Lewis at times and also a good 'up jab', HOWEVER Holy's double jab was the stuff of legend! he gave people with good jabs fits, for long periods he outjabbed Bowe who's jab (who's IMO) was the equal of Alis and Holmes (as in straigh jab from a big man).

Accurate?? ffs go back and look at Holys career, mate you are dead wrong here.
Go back and look at the combo the finished Tyson in the 1st fight, Tysons head was like a magnet to Holy's fists, sure Ali finishing Foreman was great but look at this from 6.01 secs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_IenOmK20

Is there a better HW COMBO finish at the highest level than this?

Methinks not!

Holmes and Louis are two of the best jabbers in history.

Louis was one of the best finishers the game has ever seen.

I think you are biased towards Evander.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: Where was Holyfield's inside fighting against Riddick Bowe?

Lol this must be a wind up or now your just being naive or silly or trollish.

Thats about all they did in the 2nd fight and Holy out-fought him on the inside and the outside.

He could adapt that was the point.

All three of these words could be used to describe someone that think Holyfield is better than any other Heavyweight that lived.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: Where was Holyfield's inside fighting against Riddick Bowe?

Lol this must be a wind up or now your just being naive or silly or trollish.

Thats about all they did in the 2nd fight and Holy out-fought him on the inside and the outside.

He could adapt that was the point.

All three of these words could be used to describe someone that think Holyfield is better than any other Heavyweight that lived.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: Where was Holyfield's inside fighting against Riddick Bowe?

Lol this must be a wind up or now your just being naive or silly or trollish.

Thats about all they did in the 2nd fight and Holy out-fought him on the inside and the outside.

He could adapt that was the point.

All three of these words could be used to describe someone that think Holyfield is better than any other Heavyweight that lived.

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
A good a jab if not better, the reason? he threw 3 types, staight jab (which even outjabed Bowe & Lewis at times and also a good 'up jab', HOWEVER Holy's double jab was the stuff of legend! he gave people with good jabs fits, for long periods he outjabbed Bowe who's jab (who's IMO) was the equal of Alis and Holmes (as in straigh jab from a big man).

Accurate?? ffs go back and look at Holys career, mate you are dead wrong here.
Go back and look at the combo the finished Tyson in the 1st fight, Tysons head was like a magnet to Holy's fists, sure Ali finishing Foreman was great but look at this from 6.01 secs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_IenOmK20

Is there a better HW COMBO finish at the highest level than this?

Methinks not!

Holmes and Louis are two of the best jabbers in history.

Louis was one of the best finishers the game has ever seen.

I think you are biased towards Evander.

No mate I'm an Ali man, I'm just using my head rather than my heart.
Louis was great but he was fighing a ton of bums wasnt he? "bum of the month" was created for him was it not?
Loved Holmes jab, loved it (wished Lennox threw his like Holmes did) but go back and Watch Holmes V Holy (yes I know larry was an oldish fat fuk by then but his jab was still reall fast) and at times Holy outjabbed him.

Please go back and look at what I have written and then look at the clip and find me something better because I honestly can't.

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
Lol this must be a wind up or now your just being naive or silly or trollish.

Thats about all they did in the 2nd fight and Holy out-fought him on the inside and the outside.

He could adapt that was the point.

All three of these words could be used to describe someone that think Holyfield is better than any other Heavyweight that lived.

Mate you dont get it do you? Holyfield isnt the best HW ever? why the eff would you think that this was the topic i was discusing???

Ali, prime Holmes, and a few other I rate higher, but I'm talking SKILL SET, AKA REPOTOIRE
Do you understsand now?

THE MESSIAH wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
Lol this must be a wind up or now your just being naive or silly or trollish.

Thats about all they did in the 2nd fight and Holy out-fought him on the inside and the outside.

He could adapt that was the point.

All three of these words could be used to describe someone that think Holyfield is better than any other Heavyweight that lived.

SPEED. Ali
JAB. Ali (just)
HOOK. Holy
FOOTWORK. Ali
CHIN. equal
DURABILITY. Equal
12/15 ROUND PACE. Thriler in mannla?
COMBINATIONS Holy but Ali was more flued
WILL TO WIN. Equal

Please tell me which heavy scores more points than Holyfield when all the above are added up.

1 point for each.No one beats him over this criteria.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: All three of these words could be used to describe someone that think Holyfield is better than any other Heavyweight that lived.

Mate you dont get it do you? Holyfield isnt the best HW ever? why the eff would you think that this was the topic i was discusing???

Ali, prime Holmes, and a few other I rate higher, but I'm talking SKILL SET, AKA REPOTOIRE
Do you understsand now?

Probably because the title of the thread is HOLYFIELD HAS THERE EVER BEEN A BETTER HEAVYWEIGHT?

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote: Mate you dont get it do you? Holyfield isnt the best HW ever? why the eff would you think that this was the topic i was discusing???

Ali, prime Holmes, and a few other I rate higher, but I'm talking SKILL SET, AKA REPOTOIRE
Do you understsand now?

Probably because the title of the thread is HOLYFIELD HAS THERE EVER BEEN A BETTER HEAVYWEIGHT?

Keith don't do yourself a disservice your a smart guy, you knew and so does anyone reading this know that I was talking about.

Ali is the man but Holy as a better skillset.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: All three of these words could be used to describe someone that think Holyfield is better than any other Heavyweight that lived.

Mate you dont get it do you? Holyfield isnt the best HW ever? why the eff would you think that this was the topic i was discusing???

Ali, prime Holmes, and a few other I rate higher, but I'm talking SKILL SET, AKA REPOTOIRE
Do you understsand now?

Probably because the title of the thread is HOLYFIELD HAS THERE EVER BEEN A BETTER HEAVYWEIGHT?

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: Holmes and Louis are two of the best jabbers in history.

Louis was one of the best finishers the game has ever seen.

I think you are biased towards Evander.

No mate I'm an Ali man, I'm just using my head rather than my heart.
Louis was great but he was fighing a ton of bums wasnt he? "bum of the month" was created for him was it not?
Loved Holmes jab, loved it (wished Lennox threw his like Holmes did) but go back and Watch Holmes V Holy (yes I know larry was an oldish fat fuk by then but his jab was still reall fast) and at times Holy outjabbed him.

Please go back and look at what I have written and then look at the clip and find me something better because I honestly can't.

I can't watch the clip, because I'm at work.

Don't insult Larry Holmes by saying that Holyfield outjabbed him. Prime for prime, Larry would have outjabbed Evander for 15 rounds with ease.

'Bum of the month' was created for Louis, you are correct.

If you're talking about Holyfield in his prime, then you're talking about his first reign at heavyweight. His opponents were a fat demotivated Douglas, a Foreman that was 17 years past his prime, the Bert Cooper that hurt Holyfield, but had only lasted 2 rounds with Foreman and Bowe, then a Larry Holmes that was 10 years past his prime.

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
No mate I'm an Ali man, I'm just using my head rather than my heart.
Louis was great but he was fighing a ton of bums wasnt he? "bum of the month" was created for him was it not?
Loved Holmes jab, loved it (wished Lennox threw his like Holmes did) but go back and Watch Holmes V Holy (yes I know larry was an oldish fat fuk by then but his jab was still reall fast) and at times Holy outjabbed him.

Please go back and look at what I have written and then look at the clip and find me something better because I honestly can't.

I can't watch the clip, because I'm at work.

Don't insult Larry Holmes by saying that Holyfield outjabbed him. Prime for prime, Larry would have outjabbed Evander for 15 rounds with ease.

'Bum of the month' was created for Louis, you are correct.

If you're talking about Holyfield in his prime, then you're talking about his first reign at heavyweight. His opponents were a fat demotivated Douglas, a Foreman that was 17 years past his prime, the Bert Cooper that hurt Holyfield, but had only lasted 2 rounds with Foreman and Bowe, then a Larry Holmes that was 10 years past his prime.

Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

keithmoonhangover wrote:Ali vs Holyfield - skills.

SPEED. Ali
JAB. Ali
HOOK. Holyfield
FOOTWORK. Ali
CHIN. Ali
DURABILITY. Ali
12/15 ROUND PACE. Ali
COMBINATIONS Holyfield
WILL TO WIN. Ali

Prime vs Prime.

THE MESSIAH wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:Ali vs Holyfield - skills.

SPEED. Ali
JAB. Ali
HOOK. Holyfield
FOOTWORK. Ali
CHIN. Ali
DURABILITY. Ali
12/15 ROUND PACE. Ali
COMBINATIONS Holyfield
WILL TO WIN. Ali

Prime vs Prime.

Glad to see you putting some thought into this.

Holyfield is still the more technical skillful of the two.

Ali did everything wrong, but it was right. Naz was also like that, as was RJJ.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

THE MESSIAH wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:Ali vs Holyfield - skills.

SPEED. Ali
JAB. Ali
HOOK. Holyfield
FOOTWORK. Ali
CHIN. Ali
DURABILITY. Ali
12/15 ROUND PACE. Ali
COMBINATIONS Holyfield
WILL TO WIN. Ali

Prime vs Prime.

Glad to see you putting some thought into this.

Holyfield is still the more technical skillful of the two.

Ali did everything wrong, but it was right. Naz was also like that, as was RJJ.

No mate, he did everything right. THere is no rule to say that you have to box a certain way.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: I can't watch the clip, because I'm at work.

Don't insult Larry Holmes by saying that Holyfield outjabbed him. Prime for prime, Larry would have outjabbed Evander for 15 rounds with ease.

'Bum of the month' was created for Louis, you are correct.

If you're talking about Holyfield in his prime, then you're talking about his first reign at heavyweight. His opponents were a fat demotivated Douglas, a Foreman that was 17 years past his prime, the Bert Cooper that hurt Holyfield, but had only lasted 2 rounds with Foreman and Bowe, then a Larry Holmes that was 10 years past his prime.

Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

1. We are talking about Holyfield as a heavyweight, not at cruiser, so that was his prime at Heavyweight.
2. In Ali's prime, Liston to enforced retirement, he was untouchable and would not have been rocked by Bert Cooper.

THE MESSIAH wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

THE MESSIAH wrote: Glad to see you putting some thought into this.

Holyfield is still the more technical skillful of the two.

Ali did everything wrong, but it was right. Naz was also like that, as was RJJ.

No mate, he did everything right. THere is no rule to say that you have to box a certain way.

There is a rule book. Some tear it up others adhere.

.

Jon Saxon wrote:

THE MESSIAH wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: No mate, he did everything right. THere is no rule to say that you have to box a certain way.

There is a rule book. Some tear it up others adhere.

.

Oh Keith you just got owned lol,

No holds barred boxing?? lol

Jon Saxon wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Jon Saxon wrote:
Mate Holy's prime was a CW.

But lets not do the stats thing thats kinda embarrising, Gerorge went on to regaing the title knock out Moorer who gave Holy fits but he nealry got fuked up by Bert Cooper.
that same Larry schooled Mercer who gave Lennox the shits.

U get my drift, we can all thow out todays tedious links but thats not what we are talking about, we (we I) am saying that Holy had the best bag of tricks in HW history and you were trying to counter this and failing.

Man up Keith FF's.

1. We are talking about Holyfield as a heavyweight, not at cruiser, so that was his prime at Heavyweight.
2. In Ali's prime, Liston to enforced retirement, he was untouchable and would not have been rocked by Bert Cooper.

But Doug Jones did! lol your a funny guy Keith, your arguing against yourself, I'm an Ali fan.

Holy just had more in the bag and if you know boxing you will know I'm right.

Unless you are in denial?