BoxRec

hhaehre wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: I'm sure EPO, or like products are the drug of choice for Boxers. And they most certainly enhance your stamina which will enhance your power, speed and punch resistance. Look at your boy Manny.

Where this is great increase in stamina today compared to boxers of yesteryear then? Guys today tire quicker than they did 50 years ago. EPO would also show up in the post-fight tests . . Manny despite what many love to speculate is not blood doping.

I have no idea whether boxers do EPO or if they even test for it in boxing. I do know this, it would be effective but probably not as effective as steroids.

Which steroids? Anabolic and their like wouldn't approach EPO for effectiveness with a fighter.

If it took a roid here and there to beat a poseur like Mike Tyson then I don't begrudge him.

ThatOne wrote:If it took a roid here and there to beat a poseur like Mike Tyson then I don't begrudge him.

I'm sure he took more than a little. So has Manny. Aty least Evander never turned down 40 or 50 million to take blood tests. That's as much proof as pictures for me.

I wouldn't rule out Tyson either. Though he is a pretty open book. With all of his flaws, lying has never seemed to be a glaring one to me.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

ThatOne wrote:If it took a roid here and there to beat a poseur like Mike Tyson then I don't begrudge him.

I'm sure he took more than a little. So has Manny. Aty least Evander never turned down 40 or 50 million to take blood tests. That's as much proof as pictures for me.

I wouldn't rule out Tyson either. Though he is a pretty open book. With all of his flaws, lying has never seemed to be a glaring one to me.

true if tyson was on anything it would have kum out years agos his just got good genes and when he was in shape he was all ways 217 -219 pounds no big leaps when did you see a skinny tyson the man was 190 pounds at the age of 14

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

dempseyfire wrote: Where this is great increase in stamina today compared to boxers of yesteryear then? Guys today tire quicker than they did 50 years ago. EPO would also show up in the post-fight tests . . Manny despite what many love to speculate is not blood doping.

I have no idea whether boxers do EPO or if they even test for it in boxing. I do know this, it would be effective but probably not as effective as steroids.

Which steroids? Anabolic and their like wouldn't approach EPO for effectiveness with a fighter.

Anabolic of course, all steroids used in sports to enhance performance are anabolic. I don´t think EPO would be as effective as anabolic steroids in boxing because boxing is not an endurance sport like cycling or cross country skiing. While cardio is important in boxing also, a 5% difference is not going to drop you from world champ to 50th place like it would in cross country skiing.

Boxing is most certainly an endurance sport. And that endurance affects punching power, punch resistance, defense, etc..

I think you're underestimating the close proximity of the contenders in the sport. In any regard, an enduranced based PED is much more suited to Boxing.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Boxing is most certainly an endurance sport. And that endurance affects punching power, punch resistance, defense, etc..

I think you're underestimating the close proximity of the contenders in the sport. In any regard, an enduranced based PED is much more suited to Boxing.

Boxing is an endurance sport of sorts but nothing like cross country skiing where they operate at about 90% of max pulse for two + hours. I just don't think EPO would be as effective in boxing where they only compete for at most 36 minutes with round breaks. I could well be wrong here as I don't think EPO has been used much in boxing. I'm not even sure if any boxers train at altitude before fights.

hhaehre wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Boxing is most certainly an endurance sport. And that endurance affects punching power, punch resistance, defense, etc..

I think you're underestimating the close proximity of the contenders in the sport. In any regard, an enduranced based PED is much more suited to Boxing.

Boxing is an endurance sport of sorts but nothing like cross country skiing where they operate at about 90% of max pulse for two + hours. I just don't think EPO would be as effective in boxing where they only compete for at most 36 minutes with round breaks. I could well be wrong here as I don't think EPO has been used much in boxing. I'm not even sure if any boxers train at altitude before fights.

You're dead wrong my man. Google interviews with Conte. EPO is perfect for a Boxer and tons of Boxers train at Big Bear or in other mountain ranges. They have for many years. Endurance doesn't have to be about a long period of time. Maintaining your energy level will enhance every aspect of your Boxing. That advantage is the greatest one you could possibly have.

They even say EPO has physical gains for punch resistance beyond the increased stamina. Although EPO is probably being replaced by more sophisticated designer products now. But that ilk has to be the PED of choice for combat fighters.

Edit: In my experience I was much more exhausted after 6 minutes of wrestling than I was from running 6 miles.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Boxing is most certainly an endurance sport. And that endurance affects punching power, punch resistance, defense, etc..

I think you're underestimating the close proximity of the contenders in the sport. In any regard, an enduranced based PED is much more suited to Boxing.

Boxing is an endurance sport of sorts but nothing like cross country skiing where they operate at about 90% of max pulse for two + hours. I just don't think EPO would be as effective in boxing where they only compete for at most 36 minutes with round breaks. I could well be wrong here as I don't think EPO has been used much in boxing. I'm not even sure if any boxers train at altitude before fights.

You're dead wrong my man. Google interviews with Conte. EPO is perfect for a Boxer and tons of Boxers train at Big Bear or in other mountain ranges. They have for many years. Endurance doesn't have to be about a long period of time. Maintaining your energy level will enhance every aspect of your Boxing. That advantage is the greatest one you could possibly have.

They even say EPO has physical gains for punch resistance beyond the increased stamina. Although EPO is probably being replaced by more sophisticated designer products now. But that ilk has to be the PED of choice for combat fighters.

Edit: In my experience I was much more exhausted after 6 minutes of wrestling than I was from running 6 miles.

Well maybe EPO would be more beneficial to a fighter than I originally thought. It should at least be very risk free to use in terms of getting caught. I can't imagine fighters are tested for it.

Fighters aren't tested for much of anything.

Anyone with a pea for a brain can see Holyfield used steroids among other things.

And for that person who said steroids isnt a magic pill I suggest you research them. I cant remember the name but in about 2000 a doctor did research on himself using steroids and wrote a book on it which is friggin amazing. He stated categorically that you dont even need to work out to see effects from steroids, working out did however accelerate and expand upon the effects. Unbelievably the first benefit he noticed once he began taking the steroids: Improved eyesight. The steroids actually strengthened the muscles in his eyes (which in many get weaker with age, and most of the time there is no cure outside of contacts, glasses, and occasionally surgery) improving his vision. I'll try to find the name of the book. Its a great read.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

hhaehre wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Boxing is most certainly an endurance sport. And that endurance affects punching power, punch resistance, defense, etc..

I think you're underestimating the close proximity of the contenders in the sport. In any regard, an enduranced based PED is much more suited to Boxing.

Boxing is an endurance sport of sorts but nothing like cross country skiing where they operate at about 90% of max pulse for two + hours. I just don't think EPO would be as effective in boxing where they only compete for at most 36 minutes with round breaks. I could well be wrong here as I don't think EPO has been used much in boxing. I'm not even sure if any boxers train at altitude before fights.

You're dead wrong my man. Google interviews with Conte. EPO is perfect for a Boxer and tons of Boxers train at Big Bear or in other mountain ranges. They have for many years. Endurance doesn't have to be about a long period of time. Maintaining your energy level will enhance every aspect of your Boxing. That advantage is the greatest one you could possibly have.

They even say EPO has physical gains for punch resistance beyond the increased stamina. Although EPO is probably being replaced by more sophisticated designer products now. But that ilk has to be the PED of choice for combat fighters.

Edit: In my experience I was much more exhausted after 6 minutes of wrestling than I was from running 6 miles.

I agree. As to your edit.....one Wrestling match was harder than playing an entire football game Iron Man.

PEDs are prevalent in EVERY sport. This is a fact.

Steroids and the likes were only banned from boxing in the
late 1980s. You guys really think that no one took them
before that ?


I know kickboxers and boxers that use speed and cocaine
as a PED...

Heck in New South Wales we can not even have caffeine
in our system when we fight !!

The more you ban things, the more 'cheats' you create.


In the end steroids etc etc do not build fundamentals,
character or heart. They help you with post training recovery,
injury and offer some attribute benefits.

Human Growth Hormones, Test replacement and Ephedrine
are legal in the USA... but illegal in Australia. Does that mean
that USA prize fighters are cheaters when viewed by Aussie
eyes?

As some one that has to navigate these waters as a 'natural'
athlete I simply accept that many top guys do use PEDs.

So be it.. some people are born with good genetics... some people
are born as red heads. We already start out with strengths and
weaknesses from the get go... and if some people want to
use PEDs to give them an extra edge... I really do not care.
It is a fact of life.

Oh... and I still snuck a Rockstar in pre fight before my last NSW
fight... maybe I am a cheater and abuser of PEDs ;)

People are surprisingly quick to indict Holyfield here. Boxing at heavy for 25+ years & has never failed a test. Frans Botha and James Toney failed pretty quickly.

Holyfield by 88 was walking around at 200+ and draining himself to make cruiser.

Bringing up 'stamina issues' with a man in his 30s and getting older and blaming it on roids is bizarre. The 'heart' problem was a misdiagnosis and has been written about endlessly.

The 1bangkid wrote: In April 1988, Holyfield scaled 190 lbs against Carlos DeLeon for his final Cruiserweight fight.
In Dec 1988, Holyfield scaled 212 lbs ripped against Pinklon Thomas.

Ortiz just weighed in 17 pounds heavier on fight night than at the weigh in. Chances are Holyfield was draining a lot to make 190 by then.

loaded_gloves wrote:People are surprisingly quick to indict Holyfield here. Boxing at heavy for 25+ years & has never failed a test. Frans Botha and James Toney failed pretty quickly.

Holyfield by 88 was walking around at 200+ and draining himself to make cruiser.

Bringing up 'stamina issues' with a man in his 30s and getting older and blaming it on roids is bizarre. The 'heart' problem was a misdiagnosis and has been written about endlessly.

The whole Evan Fields thing and being built like a pro wrestler in the mid 90's is pretty solid evidence that the guy was juicing.

ebeneezer wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:People are surprisingly quick to indict Holyfield here. Boxing at heavy for 25+ years & has never failed a test. Frans Botha and James Toney failed pretty quickly.

Holyfield by 88 was walking around at 200+ and draining himself to make cruiser.

Bringing up 'stamina issues' with a man in his 30s and getting older and blaming it on roids is bizarre. The 'heart' problem was a misdiagnosis and has been written about endlessly.

The whole Evan Fields thing and being built like a pro wrestler in the mid 90's is pretty solid evidence that the guy was juicing.

ha ha lmao its pretty clear in holyfields case

Evan Fields was a homeless man that Evander allowed to stay with him. That trust was betrayed when Evan ordered illegal drugs to the real deal's home after stealing his cell phone. Why does Holyfield have to pay for the sins of another man? Evan Fields needs to be held accountable for what Evan Fields does!

ebeneezer wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:People are surprisingly quick to indict Holyfield here. Boxing at heavy for 25+ years & has never failed a test. Frans Botha and James Toney failed pretty quickly.

Holyfield by 88 was walking around at 200+ and draining himself to make cruiser.

Bringing up 'stamina issues' with a man in his 30s and getting older and blaming it on roids is bizarre. The 'heart' problem was a misdiagnosis and has been written about endlessly.

The whole Evan Fields thing and being built like a pro wrestler in the mid 90's is pretty solid evidence that the guy was juicing.

Not to mention the heart troubles, rapid balding, training with Lee Haney (unless you think Lee wasnt juicing LOL) etc etc.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Evan Fields was a homeless man that Evander allowed to stay with him. That trust was betrayed when Evan ordered illegal drugs to the real deal's home after stealing his cell phone. Why does Holyfield have to pay for the sins of another man? Evan Fields needs to be held accountable for what Evan Fields does!

Diamond WEAPON wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Evan Fields was a homeless man that Evander allowed to stay with him. That trust was betrayed when Evan ordered illegal drugs to the real deal's home after stealing his cell phone. Why does Holyfield have to pay for the sins of another man? Evan Fields needs to be held accountable for what Evan Fields does!

steroids make you look good, junk food makes you look bad. you choose.

this thread is a crock of shit

show me the proof that holyfield cheated on PEDS

Holyfield probably did use PEDs but probably ALL of his world class opponents did too. Who knows how far back that PEDs were used in boxing? Whoever found them first had a big advantage over his opponents who didn't know about them. Anything that cuts body fat, adds muscle, makes one recover faster, etc. is a huge advantage in any sport. Most only suspect the athletes who are cut and muscular, but PEDs are used by guys who are built like Toney and Botha too.

We had a fighter on a card recently. He had a Red Bull that he wanted to drink prior to his fight. The commission people saw the Red Bull and wouldn't allow him to drink it, but they did NO testing prior to the fight.

I think most people would be shocked by the body types of guys that
do use PEDs.

It is naive well wishing and perhaps a great degree of belief that people
adopt when it comes to their sporting heroes and PEDs.

I do not doubt that near ALL top level boxers have used or do use a
PED in some way...

American's can use Testoserone replacement therapy and Human Growth
Hormones.. illegal here in Australia but certainly legal in the USA>
You think that their is any wonder that athletes-fighters are doing so well
into their 40s?

Is that a PED if it is legal ?

And HGH and Test for most athletes are by far more beneficial to most
steroids... especially 1960s-1980s ones.

You think NO top level boxer of the 1960s-70s used steroids ? After all
they were LEGAL to be used in boxing then. You think people would only
use them if they were ILLEGAL ?