BoxRec

tsunami wrote:Guillermo Rigondeaux prime example of being ready to challenge for world title in minimal amount of fights

If I remember correctly it was a WBA Interim title though at Super-Bantam when he defeated Ricardo Cordoba on the undercard of a Manny Pacquiao fight at Cowboys Stadium in Arlington. As for my take as to whether or not a boxer should be getting a world title shot after 14 fights my take is simple. In ideal world the answer is probably no unless the fighter in question is ricadelously gifted and flying up the rankings and wants to take the fight, because may not be experienced enough and/or the record maybe padded depending on how you read it, but it has happened and it will continue to happen simply because the financial clout of the fighter's promoter and television network etc have in relation to it. If it was a British fighter after 14 fights if he is good enough it should be pushing for at least an eliminator for a British and Commonwealth title if already fighting for the titles themselves.

"Should anyone be getting a world title shot after 14 fights?"

It very much has to be taken on a case by case basis.

Didn't jeff fenech have only something like nine fights before wining a world title?

Shuminov challenged and lost in his 9th fight, and won in the re-match in his 10th fight

I think as long as they have won against ranked fighters on the way up, I don't see why not. I know Willie Casey got a fight against Rigondeaux in my opinion was far too early as he hadn't fought at a top level and got battered.

3 fighters who made their pro debut challenging for a world title:

1. Pete Rademacher 1957
2. Jack Skelly 1892
3. Rafael Lovera 1975

Leon Spinks won his in his 8th fight. Other than that you have:

Saensak Muangsurin (3)
Veeraphol Sahaprom (3)
Muangchai Kittikasem (6)
Paul Weir (6)

Davey Moore, Jeff Fenech & DLH already covered. Carbajal had only 14 fights before beating Kittikasem but he had a good solid ama career behind him too.

Spinks, DLH & Rademacher were all olympic medalists. Weir was an odd one but he was fighting at such a low weight that he couldn't really get fights in Europe. Granted he went for the weakest link. Kittikasem was a Muay Thai boxer of some repute I think, as was Sahaprom (and so are a lot of these lighter weight fighters who had little pro experience before getting a title shot - Samon Sajatorong was another).

As to Chisora, it's more an indication on the dearth of talent at heavyweight and his promoter's acumen that he was even considered as a challenger, it certainly wasn't his climb up the rankings.

Better at 13-1 and 14-0 than a meaningless 32-0.

DavidPayne wrote:Better at 13-1 and 14-0 than a meaningless 32-0.

Amen to that David.

Tsyzu fought Jake 'The snake' Rodriguez in his 12th fight and had him down in the opener and about 3 more times before a mid-fight stoppage for the IBF 140lb title.

If your good enough, then your good enough.

But obviously that's decided on an individual basis, not a blanket approach for all fighters.

This is where the alphabets have got it all wrong.

Previously a European Title would get you a top ten ranking, before fighting for the European belt you would compete at national and commonwealth level.

Once in the top ten you would face an eliminator against a top 5 fighter and then get your shot.

This was one of the primary functions of rankings. If you could achieve this in 14 fights, you were indeed special

There are exceptions that have been suprise packages Azumah Nelson v Sanchez as an example, who although unsuccessful made a very credible challange.

However Chisora against Klistcho would have been a mismatch and should never have been thought about.

Sanctioning bodies, boards of control do seem to be more and more passive but the BBoBC seems better than most.

It should be on an individual basis.... the mentioned fighters on this thread were obviously ready... although in some cases (e.g. Leon Spinks) the champion clearly was on the slide and took him lightly. However, Leon still fought a good fight, and I think fight 1 Spinks vs fight 2 Ali would have been competitive.

As for Chisora, I think people are being rightfully hard on him given the disgraceful conditioning and poor performance against Fury. I'm really stunned for words at his conditioning and cannot understand why a young, ambitious, champion would take a young, ambitious, opponent so lightly.

So in hindsight what already was deemed a mismatch (vs Wlad) is now considered a joke. Would Derek have been in that condition against Wlad? I sincerely hope not. Was he worthy of a voluntary title challenge? Umm.... its a tough call, but I would argue that he was as worthy as some of the other fighters who have got one in recent times. Who had Sosnowski beaten to get a world title shot? Who had Briggs? Who had Tony Thompson fought to get his shot? When had Rahman last won in world class? When has Samuel Peter?

No way is Fury ready for a world title challenge, but who else is? Seriously, we might be calling on a 46 year old career long Middleweight next!

G0mez wrote:Tsyzu fought Jake 'The snake' Rodriguez in his 12th fight and had him down in the opener and about 3 more times before a mid-fight stoppage for the IBF 140lb title.
.

i remember it well. Jake had a classic expression on his face, the first time he got hit with the right hand and put on his backside; 'what the FVCK did he just hit me with? fvck'

Dereck Chisora was never ready for Wladimir Klitschko, however, was he any less ready than say a 39 year old, fat Hasim Rahman?

And that is the context. Having exhausted the museum, WK and VK now have to look to the kindergarten for sellable opponents.

Has to be taken on an individual basis. Rigondeaux, whilst only winning the interim belt, has still only had 8 fights. Whilst unlikely, it's not out the question that he could unify in 6 fights.

stujones wrote:It should be on an individual basis.... the mentioned fighters on this thread were obviously ready... although in some cases (e.g. Leon Spinks) the champion clearly was on the slide and took him lightly. However, Leon still fought a good fight, and I think fight 1 Spinks vs fight 2 Ali would have been competitive.

As for Chisora, I think people are being rightfully hard on him given the disgraceful conditioning and poor performance against Fury. I'm really stunned for words at his conditioning and cannot understand why a young, ambitious, champion would take a young, ambitious, opponent so lightly.

So in hindsight what already was deemed a mismatch (vs Wlad) is now considered a joke. Would Derek have been in that condition against Wlad? I sincerely hope not. Was he worthy of a voluntary title challenge? Umm.... its a tough call, but I would argue that he was as worthy as some of the other fighters who have got one in recent times. Who had Sosnowski beaten to get a world title shot? Who had Briggs? Who had Tony Thompson fought to get his shot? When had Rahman last won in world class? When has Samuel Peter?

No way is Fury ready for a world title challenge, but who else is? Seriously, we might be calling on a 46 year old career long Middleweight next!

I suspect that after two cancelled World Heavyweight Title fights against the main man in the division, Del Boy was struggling for motivation when he had to face a domestic rival for the domestic belts. I always feared that would happen.
No excuses though, he's a professional and should have got himself in better shape, motivated or not.

Counter-puncher wrote:

G0mez wrote:Tsyzu fought Jake 'The snake' Rodriguez in his 12th fight and had him down in the opener and about 3 more times before a mid-fight stoppage for the IBF 140lb title.
.

i remember it well. Jake had a classic expression on his face, the first time he got hit with the right hand and put on his backside; 'what the FVCK did he just hit me with? fvck'

Tszyu gives anyone at 140lb in history a hell of a fight during his pomp.

A charming person, great boxing ability, decent beard and a thundering selection of power punches.

Well, there isn't anything else you'd want from a fighter. I just wish he'd been with HBO instead of Showtime.

G0mez wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

G0mez wrote:Tsyzu fought Jake 'The snake' Rodriguez in his 12th fight and had him down in the opener and about 3 more times before a mid-fight stoppage for the IBF 140lb title.
.

i remember it well. Jake had a classic expression on his face, the first time he got hit with the right hand and put on his backside; 'what the FVCK did he just hit me with? fvck'

Tszyu gives anyone at 140lb in history a hell of a fight during his pomp.

A charming person, great boxing ability, decent beard and a thundering selection of power punches.

Well, there isn't anything else you'd want from a fighter. I just wish he'd been with HBO instead of Showtime.

x1

G0mez wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

G0mez wrote:Tsyzu fought Jake 'The snake' Rodriguez in his 12th fight and had him down in the opener and about 3 more times before a mid-fight stoppage for the IBF 140lb title.
.

i remember it well. Jake had a classic expression on his face, the first time he got hit with the right hand and put on his backside; 'what the FVCK did he just hit me with? fvck'

Tszyu gives anyone at 140lb in history a hell of a fight during his pomp.

A charming person, great boxing ability, decent beard and a thundering selection of power punches.

Well, there isn't anything else you'd want from a fighter. I just wish he'd been with HBO instead of Showtime.

oh, indeed. but like i say, the thing from his career that will stick in my mind as long as I live, was the 'WHAT THE FVCK' expression Rodriguez had on his face.

maybe De La Hoya, hitting the likes of Ruelas and Leija at 135, can be considered to have inspired a similar sense of shock.

Counter-puncher wrote:

G0mez wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote: i remember it well. Jake had a classic expression on his face, the first time he got hit with the right hand and put on his backside; 'what the FVCK did he just hit me with? fvck'

Tszyu gives anyone at 140lb in history a hell of a fight during his pomp.

A charming person, great boxing ability, decent beard and a thundering selection of power punches.

Well, there isn't anything else you'd want from a fighter. I just wish he'd been with HBO instead of Showtime.

oh, indeed. but like i say, the thing from his career that will stick in my mind as long as I live, was the 'WHAT THE FVCK' expression Rodriguez had on his face.

maybe De La Hoya, hitting the likes of Ruelas and Leija at 135, can be considered to have inspired a similar sense of shock.

Completely agree, Tszyu was fantastic.... always looked open an beatable at times but was just a crafty fighter with great power and underated ability. My stand out moment of Tszyu happend much latter in his career which was against Ben Tackie. I was really championing Tackie as a future world champion on other forums at the time - he was going through a purple patch. But Tszyu kept in the pocket and picked him off with ease with gentle taps - everytime Tackie build up confidence to mount an attack, Tszyu would up the power.

It depends on who they beat and how good they are. Mike Tyson had 27 fights before fighting Berbick, which initially sounds like a decent amount of fights. However Tyson only fought 74 rounds in total (22 fights ended before the 4th round) so he was hardly very experienced, yet he was justified in fighting for the title for his total demolition of everyone. You could argue what did Tyson learn in the fifteen 1st round wins he had before fighting Berbick?

There are several examples of quick title shots, James J. Jeffries is highly rated by many boxing fans, and in some peoples top 10 heavyweight lists, yet only ever had 23 fights in his entire career.

This day & age, it's not a problem with fighters getting title shots after 14 fights, as many modern fighters fight so infrequently.

Petaling Pete wrote:This is where the alphabets have got it all wrong.

Previously a European Title would get you a top ten ranking, before fighting for the European belt you would compete at national and commonwealth level.

Once in the top ten you would face an eliminator against a top 5 fighter and then get your shot.

This was one of the primary functions of rankings. If you could achieve this in 14 fights, you were indeed special

There are exceptions that have been suprise packages Azumah Nelson v Sanchez as an example, who although unsuccessful made a very credible challange.

However Chisora against Klistcho would have been a mismatch and should never have been thought about.

Sanctioning bodies, boards of control do seem to be more and more passive but the BBoBC seems better than most.

Controversial wrote:It depends on who they beat and how good they are. Mike Tyson had 27 fights before fighting Berbick, which initially sounds like a decent amount of fights. However Tyson only fought 74 rounds in total (22 fights ended before the 4th round) so he was hardly very experienced, yet he was justified in fighting for the title for his total demolition of everyone. You could argue what did Tyson learn in the fifteen 1st round wins he had before fighting Berbick?

There are several examples of quick title shots, James J. Jeffries is highly rated by many boxing fans, and in some peoples top 10 heavyweight lists, yet only ever had 23 fights in his entire career.

he probably fought 500rds tho ;;-)

hurlock wrote:
he probably fought 500rds tho ;;-)

Haha, no only 215

What if a boxer has 14 wins 14 KOs beating top kids on the way ?????