BoxRec

The Great John L wrote:

yancey wrote:Some of you are a little gullible.

Why in hell do you think Ali was standing over Liston like he was and telling him to get up?

Ali knew damn well it wasn't legitimate, he threw the punch! He wasn't part of it, but he knew immediately it was a dive.

He told his corner men and hangers on to keep their mouths shut on what they had just seen, for crying out loud.

I go with Jimmy Cannon and George Chuvalo. They knew, like most everyone else in the arena, what went down.

He also stood over Bonavena after knocking him down. Was that also because the fix was on in that fight as well?

yancey wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

yancey wrote:Some of you are a little gullible.

Why in hell do you think Ali was standing over Liston like he was and telling him to get up?

Ali knew damn well it wasn't legitimate, he threw the punch! He wasn't part of it, but he knew immediately it was a dive.

He told his corner men and hangers on to keep their mouths shut on what they had just seen, for crying out loud.

I go with Jimmy Cannon and George Chuvalo. They knew, like most everyone else in the arena, what went down.

He also stood over Bonavena after knocking him down. Was that also because the fix was on in that fight as well?

yancey wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

yancey wrote:Some of you are a little gullible.

Why in hell do you think Ali was standing over Liston like he was and telling him to get up?

Ali knew damn well it wasn't legitimate, he threw the punch! He wasn't part of it, but he knew immediately it was a dive.

He told his corner men and hangers on to keep their mouths shut on what they had just seen, for crying out loud.

I go with Jimmy Cannon and George Chuvalo. They knew, like most everyone else in the arena, what went down.

He also stood over Bonavena after knocking him down. Was that also because the fix was on in that fight as well?

The infamous rolling eyes. Always a good indicator of a failed argument.

ThatOne wrote:
It's interesting. Sonny spent time in the joint and probably wasn't scared of much. But even in the joint, prisoners are scared of "crazy" people and Ali convinced Liston he was a "nut".

I think he was more scared of Alis entourage

Yes the punch actually landed. No it didn't actually do that much damage to Liston. The punch wasn't even hard enough to actually drop Liston, much less drop him for 10. Liston took a dive, nothing anybody could ever say will make me believe otherwise. I've seen the fight, I've seen Liston take MUCH bigger shots and stay on his feet.

The Great John L wrote:

yancey wrote:

The Great John L wrote: He also stood over Bonavena after knocking him down. Was that also because the fix was on in that fight as well?

The infamous rolling eyes. Always a good indicator of a failed argument.

No, in this case the rolling ideas are not indicative of a failed argument.

Instead, they are indicative of the weariness one feels with having to deal with the pure nitwittery exhibited by one who is trying to equate the honest effort of Bonavena with the tank job of Liston.

You should be better than that, but I guess you got desperate because your argument is a freaking failure.

gilgamesh wrote:Yes the punch actually landed. No it didn't actually do that much damage to Liston. The punch wasn't even hard enough to actually drop Liston, much less drop him for 10. Liston took a dive, nothing anybody could ever say will make me believe otherwise. I've seen the fight, I've seen Liston take MUCH bigger shots and stay on his feet.

There is a difference between taking a "dive" and a "fix". Roberto Duran took a "dive" against Leonard in the famous "No Mas" fight but I doubt there was a financial inducement for him to do so.

Liston himself said he could have got up but chose not to because he was afraid Ali would hit him as he got up because in order to get up you have to put one hand on the canvas and leave yourself defenseless.

Liston was a slight favorite or even in the second fight. Where's the financial inducement to lose?

Anyway, if he got up Ali would have cut him to ribbons and stopped him in seven rounds. He was all wrong for him.

In fact, an Ali was more of a physical threat to a Liston than a big puncher would have been. Because it meant he would have taken more of a sustained beating than being dispatched early.