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Re: Ali Tyson klitscho who really was the best ?
Posted: 15 Sep 2011, 20:01
by Brute
People talk about Ali as if he was at his peak when he fought Foreman. Ali was at his best before he was suspended because he refused to be used to lure young blacks into volunteering for LBJ's lunatic effort in Vietnam. Ali won 29 straight fights and pretty much cleaned out the Heavyweight division before being kept out of the sport for more than three years in his prime.
Re: Ali Tyson klitscho who really was the best ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 00:12
by jessi
stujones wrote:Re Mayweather arguement - Cotto? Margarito? Williams? Good fighters, but who have they beaten to place them above some of the fighters Mayweather beat? It used to annoy me when people slated him for fighting the lineal Welterweight champion in Baldomir and were saying he won't man up and face Margarito - just who had Margarito beaten in his first reign as a world champion to make him so justifiable.
The 2007 version of DLH at 154 was everybit as proven a challenge as these three..... Ricky Hatton also let alone Jose Luis Castillo.
As for Lewis vs Klitchsko - no doubting it was a definate win for Lennox who was past his prime and overweight. I would favour Lennox to beat Vitali in a prime vs prime fight. However, it should also be noted that Vitali also wasn't as good in 2003 as he is now. He's been dominant since his return from the sport... amazing to think the only fighter who gave him anything to think about (remotely) was Sosnowski.
good post, a peak lewis v a 2011 vitali is 50/50 for me.
Re: Ali Tyson klitscho who really was the best ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 00:18
by jessi
ALI wrote:jessi wrote:ALI wrote:
I have never had any real interest in trying to work out if Lewis could have beaten Ali, or if Foreman could have beaten a Klitschko etc. For me, i'm much more interested in what was achieved during the fighters time at the top, and then ranking them on that basis. Its all about what level of oposition was available at the time, and of that oposition what was faced.
Floyd Mayweather is a beautiful talent, but for whatever reason he's missed out on fighting his biggest challengers time after time and due to this should not rank highly on all time lists IMO. Neither should the likes of Joe Calzaghe. Obviously others may disagree, but IMO if you dont prove yourself against the best of your era, your not deserving of being ranked above those that did!
completely disagree about floyd, the only 2 of his era he hasent fought YET is cotto and pacman ! you dont win titles in 6 diffrent weights for no reason, agree with calzage though !
He should have fought at least several of the following when they were in their peak: Frietas, Tyszu, Margarito, Cotto, Williams, a young Mosley, Pacquiao. Please point out to me one name on Mayweather's record that stands above any of those fighters, respective to the division. Maybe Corrales, but other than that, you cant!
frietas and williams dont deserve to be mentioned as someone you need to beat to gain greatness, tyszu margarito cotto and a young mosley would of been interesting and pacquiao might still happen, if he fights pacman next and destroys him all the other names would of stood no chance anyway ! boxing politics remains the same but history will always show floyd as a great !
Re: Ali Tyson klitscho who really was the best ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 01:36
by zero
These kind of discussions (era’s) are hopeless especially at HW K2 (especially Vitali) size is something Ali, Tyson or Holmes couldn’t have coped with IMO. Lewis was too good and similar in size, in his prime he would be too much for both brothers.
Re: Ali Tyson klitscho who really was the best ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 03:21
by Jon Saxon
ALI wrote:jessi wrote:ALI wrote:
I have never had any real interest in trying to work out if Lewis could have beaten Ali, or if Foreman could have beaten a Klitschko etc. For me, i'm much more interested in what was achieved during the fighters time at the top, and then ranking them on that basis. Its all about what level of oposition was available at the time, and of that oposition what was faced.
Floyd Mayweather is a beautiful talent, but for whatever reason he's missed out on fighting his biggest challengers time after time and due to this should not rank highly on all time lists IMO. Neither should the likes of Joe Calzaghe. Obviously others may disagree, but IMO if you dont prove yourself against the best of your era, your not deserving of being ranked above those that did!
completely disagree about floyd, the only 2 of his era he hasent fought YET is cotto and pacman ! you dont win titles in 6 diffrent weights for no reason, agree with calzage though !
He should have fought at least several of the following when they were in their peak: Frietas, Tyszu, Margarito, Cotto, Williams, a young Mosley, Pacquiao. Please point out to me one name on Mayweather's record that stands above any of those fighters, respective to the division. Maybe Corrales, but other than that, you cant!
Spot on mate!
PS
I think Tszyu would have nailed him ala Judah.
Re: Ali Tyson klitscho who really was the best ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 04:19
by zero
Why is Mayweather being mentioned in this thread ?.....
Re: Ali Tyson klitscho who really was the best ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 05:33
by jessi
zero wrote:Why is Mayweather being mentioned in this thread ?.....
Don't know
Re: Ali Tyson klitscho who really was the best ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 07:54
by observer1
Can Mods please remove the Mayweather posts, ban all those who mentioned his name in this thread.
Re: Ali Tyson klitscho who really was the best ?
Posted: 16 Sep 2011, 11:47
by ALI
zero wrote:Why is Mayweather being mentioned in this thread ?.....
Read my post that brought him into the thread, if your clever enough you'll realise it has relevance to the debate.
To use Lewis and say Vitali as an example, my point is that its pointless trying to debate who would have beaten who had they rematched, we'll never have an answer to it. What we can do is acknowledge that they are both great heavyweights and rank them based on what they achieved during their careers relative to what was available to them during their era.
1) Lewis
2) Vitali