I don't know if anyone else has mentioned it already in this thread, but I think Harrison's age is a factor here. He is by no means a spring chicken.
The number of fights he has had in the space of time he has been campaigning as a pro I do not think is an issue. However, I really think his calibre of opponent should be stepped up sharpish if he is at all to improve, because that's what he has to do in my opinion....improve, and improve greatly. However, at 32 now, how much improvement can he make?
British title material - maybe
European title material - maybe
World title material....definitely no.
Is Harrison going slow?
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 12 Nov 2003, 06:11
I think that most peoples animosity towards Audley is his own doing, he has had a tendency throughout his short pro career to say one thing and do another. Claims he would be British champion within three fights etc when in reality he was fighting a Polish bouncer or whatever :P I think he will win a version of the world title but not a major one, possibly a WBF, IBC or WBU version.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
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I don't think Tyson would neccesarily beat him now, Audley doesn't leave his chin hanging out, and Tyson is a 2 round figher these days, hell, Tyson is pretty much retired as far as I can tell.
At any rate, Tyson is still a vastly more experienced fighter, and Audley should not be matched with him at this stage, that would be a pretty silly risk, in the unlikely event that Tyson was interested.
At any rate, Tyson is still a vastly more experienced fighter, and Audley should not be matched with him at this stage, that would be a pretty silly risk, in the unlikely event that Tyson was interested.
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
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In a word BOLLOCKS.
If that's the case why did Tyson take on such a piss poor level of competition for his first 16 fights then, if it's all about the risk?
It is NOT all about the risk, it's about bringing a fighter along correctly, getting them fights which they can learn from, whilst building their profile. You take the risk at the appropriate point.
At this point Audley should be taking on people in the lower reaches of the top 30, Michael Grant, Michael Moorer maybe, or people ranked below him, that's what pretty much every heavyweight worth their salt would be doing at his point.
You think any matchmaker in the world, would throw someone as inexperienced as Audley with Tyson, I doubt it. The only reason you would do that would be if you thought that you wanted a big payday and didn't care about the outcome.
Mesi just called Tyson out recently, but they know damned well it's bollocks and Tyson won't be interested so it's a safe callout. Mesi has had double the amount of fights Audley has, and has been a pro for 7 years!
By your reasoning, Tyson should have been fighting a top 10 fighter during his 1st year as a pro, seeing as he had 18 fights in his first year, that's just plain stupid. Tyson is still a top 10 fighter, though just about, but there are still plenty of guys he can beat.
As to whether Audley could beat Tyson, I just don't know, simple as that. What I do know is that anyone who can frustrate Tyson for 3 rounds, has a good chance of getting a decision over him.
If that's the case why did Tyson take on such a piss poor level of competition for his first 16 fights then, if it's all about the risk?
It is NOT all about the risk, it's about bringing a fighter along correctly, getting them fights which they can learn from, whilst building their profile. You take the risk at the appropriate point.
At this point Audley should be taking on people in the lower reaches of the top 30, Michael Grant, Michael Moorer maybe, or people ranked below him, that's what pretty much every heavyweight worth their salt would be doing at his point.
You think any matchmaker in the world, would throw someone as inexperienced as Audley with Tyson, I doubt it. The only reason you would do that would be if you thought that you wanted a big payday and didn't care about the outcome.
Mesi just called Tyson out recently, but they know damned well it's bollocks and Tyson won't be interested so it's a safe callout. Mesi has had double the amount of fights Audley has, and has been a pro for 7 years!
By your reasoning, Tyson should have been fighting a top 10 fighter during his 1st year as a pro, seeing as he had 18 fights in his first year, that's just plain stupid. Tyson is still a top 10 fighter, though just about, but there are still plenty of guys he can beat.
As to whether Audley could beat Tyson, I just don't know, simple as that. What I do know is that anyone who can frustrate Tyson for 3 rounds, has a good chance of getting a decision over him.
Whats the point in arguing with someone like beduff who evidently feels Audley's first pro fight should have been against Danny Williams. I'm happy someone mentioned Frank Bruno, hes very popular in this country but the quality of his oponents at the start of his career were ridiculous. I noticed someone said that no one has been mentioning age as a factor. Its quite the opposite as with everyone age is the only factor they consider with Audley.
Audley won an olympic gold and so there was enormous pressure on him as he embarked on his proffesional career. Amateurs is completely different to professional boxing so he had alot to learn. Hes always stressed his five year plan so why don't shut up and fornicating evaluate him after these five years. Rarely does anyone bring anything new to the argument, they just confirm his age and question his oponents which his stupid at such an early stage of his career. Hes learning and is now intent on stepping up yet you still complain.
Audley won an olympic gold and so there was enormous pressure on him as he embarked on his proffesional career. Amateurs is completely different to professional boxing so he had alot to learn. Hes always stressed his five year plan so why don't shut up and fornicating evaluate him after these five years. Rarely does anyone bring anything new to the argument, they just confirm his age and question his oponents which his stupid at such an early stage of his career. Hes learning and is now intent on stepping up yet you still complain.
best point of the thread. He should stay in the states, I've bashed Audley from day one, and I still don't think he's world title material, but he has improved greatly since he went over there; to be perfectly frank I think he's surpassed everyone at home and he doesn't need them. Doubly so since Warren but his big stinking oar inbennie wrote:He'll be even slower now. Who can he fight in this country who isn't allied to allegedly?
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jamesmcdonnell
- Heavyweight
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That may be true, but I don't really think Audley needs any of them particularly.
Beating any of them might look good on the domestic CV, but is an irrelevence in world terms, and there are plenty of better fighters in the states to take on in place of the Williams', Skelton's, Sprott's and Keith Long's of this world.
However, losing to any of them, which is possible at this early stage of his career would pretty much halt any aspirations at a world title for good at Audley's age.
I say continue fighting in America.
Beating any of them might look good on the domestic CV, but is an irrelevence in world terms, and there are plenty of better fighters in the states to take on in place of the Williams', Skelton's, Sprott's and Keith Long's of this world.
However, losing to any of them, which is possible at this early stage of his career would pretty much halt any aspirations at a world title for good at Audley's age.
I say continue fighting in America.
Well Audley has said repeatedly he wants to win the British title in 2004 so expect to see him back over here.
I just hope for his sake he tunes up against a reasonably solid, attack-minded heavyweight before taking on Danny Williams. There's no doubt Audley can use his size to dominate lesser fighters but if he doesn't start facing some real physical pressure soon he'll find himself in trouble when the step up comes.
I just hope for his sake he tunes up against a reasonably solid, attack-minded heavyweight before taking on Danny Williams. There's no doubt Audley can use his size to dominate lesser fighters but if he doesn't start facing some real physical pressure soon he'll find himself in trouble when the step up comes.
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Dynamite Dean Phillips
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 30 Nov 2003, 18:30
You constantly hear this because it is the truth. From what I have seen of Audley, he looks to be improving at a very slow rate...I'm falling asleep watching his career unfold, and I don't even bother to watch any of his fights anymore, at least not until he is going to be matched with someone who will give him a test. You can only look as good as your opponents make you look, and for me, Audley has so far fought mediocre opponents. He doesn't, or never has looked anywhere near as capable as his olympic gold medal suggests.Rarely does anyone bring anything new to the argument, they just confirm his age and question his oponents which his stupid at such an early stage of his career
I see nothing in his work that suggests he will climb to the top of the world scene. As I have said, he's good enough for domestic honours and European in the not too distant future, but he is a far cry from world title stuff, and will never get that far. His only hope of winning a world title will be to contest one of the lesser prestigious ones, as someone has already suggested in this thread. However, the calibre of his opponents needs to be improved upon even to contest at this level.
Audley Harrison's progress = way too slow to non-existent.
I didn't say it did, in fact, burst my bunions but I don't remember mentioning rankings at all. I said he's surpassed everyone on the domestic scene, that means in terms of ability, or to put it another way, I think he beats Williams, Hide and whoever else, he doesn't need them, he's better off making his way in america.Kilburn wrote:Without actually facing any of them? Beating Brian Nix does not shoot you to the top of the British rankings mate, sorry.mrbassie wrote:to be perfectly frank I think he's surpassed everyone at home and he doesn't need them
I think at Audley's age he really needs to get a move on. Tyson was 17-18 when he turned pro and of course he needed some protecting.
Audley was 30 with a huge wealth of Amateur experience and an Olympic gold medal under his boot. He didn't need the same degree of protecting.
Tyson won the WORLD title within two years of turning pro, Audley is not even close to the British title, three years of turning pro.
Lennox Lewis was European Champion within 14 fights, which meant a place in the worlds top ten. A few fights later he had the scalp of Mason, who on world terms was a lot more higher ranked than Williams. By the end of his 3 year as a pro he was WBC world champion.
Harrison is going way to slow, he should take a leaf out of Skelton's book. He's already a millionaire and no one can take away his gold medal. There have been plenty of great amateurs who never captured the world title - so what has he got to lose.
As I said in many other threads, and olympian who habours serious proffesional acclaim should be at least on the verge of a world title fight by the time of the next Olympics. Look at them all, Lewis (1992 world champion), DLH (champion before 1996), David Reid (champion before 2000), Jermain Taylor (world contendor 2004).
Harrison struggles to make the top 100, during the most dire time in the devision's history.
James has a point that we should be comparing the number of fights, compared to the years in the gym. Yes, Tyson's first 12 fights or so were against poor fighters. But he beat them in quick succession, like Skelton is doing (keeping busy).
Surely the whole point to the thread title - Is Harrison going to slow is yes, he's only had 14 fights in 4 years.
Audley was 30 with a huge wealth of Amateur experience and an Olympic gold medal under his boot. He didn't need the same degree of protecting.
Tyson won the WORLD title within two years of turning pro, Audley is not even close to the British title, three years of turning pro.
Lennox Lewis was European Champion within 14 fights, which meant a place in the worlds top ten. A few fights later he had the scalp of Mason, who on world terms was a lot more higher ranked than Williams. By the end of his 3 year as a pro he was WBC world champion.
Harrison is going way to slow, he should take a leaf out of Skelton's book. He's already a millionaire and no one can take away his gold medal. There have been plenty of great amateurs who never captured the world title - so what has he got to lose.
As I said in many other threads, and olympian who habours serious proffesional acclaim should be at least on the verge of a world title fight by the time of the next Olympics. Look at them all, Lewis (1992 world champion), DLH (champion before 1996), David Reid (champion before 2000), Jermain Taylor (world contendor 2004).
Harrison struggles to make the top 100, during the most dire time in the devision's history.
James has a point that we should be comparing the number of fights, compared to the years in the gym. Yes, Tyson's first 12 fights or so were against poor fighters. But he beat them in quick succession, like Skelton is doing (keeping busy).
Surely the whole point to the thread title - Is Harrison going to slow is yes, he's only had 14 fights in 4 years.
Hey if you like to think Audley has over taken the likes of Williams, Skelton, Sprott, Long and Hide without actually having shared the ring with them that's up to you. Personally I'll be needing a bit of proof before I follow suit. The all important step up has not been made yet.mrbassie wrote:I didn't say it did, in fact, burst my bunions but I don't remember mentioning rankings at all. I said he's surpassed everyone on the domestic scene, that means in terms of ability, or to put it another way, I think he beats Williams, Hide and whoever else, he doesn't need them, he's better off making his way in america.
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shakermaker
- Heavyweight
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jameswilson
- Heavyweight
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20/1 I'll have some of that. I think if Sprott wins and has to vacate his Sounthern Area title Audley will fight for that possibly with Herbie Hide. If Sprott loses F.Warren it has been rumoured may want to release Sprott or put him up against Harrison to get him on the winning track. Dangerous tactic aint it Frank putting him up against another top British Heavyweight.