BoxRec

Posted: **13 Oct 2011, 11:45**

JamesH wrote:
BoxingAnalyst wrote:
JamesH wrote:It's my opinion but its based on following their respective careers for years. I think Theophane's resume is slightly misleading and I'm surprised that beating the game but faded pair of Daws and Cook convinces you that he has Gavin's number. Would Gavin have lost to those two? I don't believe so. In fact, when Cook was matched against Gavin it drew criticism in some quarters, yet Theophane apparently gains massive credit for overcoming him in a very close match. In short, I think he has gone from under rated to over rated.

Theophane has no doubt had some good results, and credit to him for them. However, I remember some poor performances, and enough occasions where Ashley didn't throw enough (e.g. against Oubaali) for me to maintain my confidence of Gavin having the better of him. Ashley has always been very picky about his fights, and he's fought 3 novices in his last 7 fights. I'm not trying to knock the bloke who's achieved far more than I expected, as I say I've been following his career for years and wish him the best, I just think Gavin is at least a level above.
Yeah talent level Gavin is a mile ahead, but it doesn't matter. Theophane has mixed in fringe world class.

Corley-Good win even though demarcus was over the hill.
Danny Garcia-Ashley lost a Split Decision but did well against a very good prospect.
Delvin Rodriguez-Ash was very lucky to get the decision but showed in the fight what a solid fighter he is.
Daws-Decent win, Lenny was the favourite.
Cook-Decent win even if Jason was over the hill.

If Gavin performed like he did against Woodhouse would he have beat Daws? It would have been very close.

So talent doesn't matter? I disagree strongly, talent is a key component in the make up of a fighter.

Theophane has mixed in fringe world class, but facts are what you make of them.

Chop Chop was a good away win for Ashley, but you could present it that it was Corley's 5th loss on the trot. He's actually racked up 14 losses since (but including) the Witter fight, which should indicate whether or not he's the same man he was.

Against Garcia, did very well in a loss that was a good learning fight for Garcia.

Against Rodriguez he was lucky but did prove solid. Rodriguez has now won 2 of his last 7, again an indication.

Yep, Lenny was the favourite and I thought he'd edge it, but Daws looked flat. Best result of Ashley's career for me.

Cook, still had a dig but no where near his prime. He pushed Ash closer than he should have been able to though.

So, after Corley he fought Scriven (13-41), after Garcia he fought Hotaki (7-1-1), after Delvin Rodriguez he fought Thompson (6-1-1). My biggest question is why?

And the last question you pose is basically, 'If Frankie fought the same as he did in his worst performance, would he beat Daws?'. And even you say with Frankie's worst performance, that it would be close!! I tend to judge fighters on what I've seen (am and pro) rather than picking out the worst performance as a benchmark. For that reason, Frankie would beat Daws all day long, although I think he may actually cause more problems than Ashley would (styles make fights).

I'm not knocking Ashley’s achievements, hats off to him he’s improved immeasurably from the early days, but I just think people are getting carried away. Ashley mentioned in numerous publications after his Jan 2007 fight with Alan Bosworth that he'd been frozen out of a title shot and that he didn't care about the Lonsdale belt, he was going straight for the world title. What actually happened was that it was an eliminator (not a final eliminator) and when the final eliminator was ordered, it was against a tougher opponent (think it might have been Matthew Hatton). Then Ashley does superbly to win the title off Daws some years later, straight after the fight (when Gavin was an option at the weight) he insisted he's giving it up, won't defend it because he's off to chase the world title. Then Cook comes in as an opponent and the defence is on. I don't think Theophane would take the fight to be honest.

At 140 Gavin would beat Theophane and Daws fairly wide on points on top form. But at 147 he is small at the weight, little power, alot slower..handspeed, reactions, footwork etc. You can have all the talent in the world but if your not 100% diciplined you will get found out. 147 will never be the right weight for Frankie Gavin IMO.

Posted: **13 Oct 2011, 12:54**

James thanks for the rerply hwoeve potential only works so far, and you are only as good as your last performance when at this stage of your career.

The frankie gavin that turned up in his last two fights gets done by Theophane no question in my mind. Takes him to deep water and drowns him.

Posted: **13 Oct 2011, 13:42**

if frankie is going to go to the top it must be at 140 hes not big enough for welter, he will beat some welters on ability alone but the better ones will be too big and strong for him he wont be able to keep them off him over 12 rounds, his power is decent not massive, its his accuracy that is more impressive than his power, the higher his weight goes the slower he becomes, it makes him easier to hit, by coming in heavier than he should be he gives up alot of his advantages and just makes him a good domestic fighter, if he was at 140 he would have a good chance of getting to the top, at 147 id fancy purdy to beat him and kell brook would be way too powerfull for him, i like frankie hes a top fella but to reach his potential he must stay at 140lbs, i hope i have it wrong but thats how i see it

Posted: **13 Oct 2011, 13:59**

I think we'd all prefer to see him at light welter. Let's see what happens on that front. I think he's got a bee in his bonnet to go out there and prove a point in the next few bouts though. It's all levels isn't it? I guess a Frankie at lightweight is ib for ib a better relative than the Frankie at welterweight, but I still think his welter level will be at the top area of world level. He's got the tools but I take all the points about the need for more than that, of course more is required. I think he'll get there, but time will be the judge on this one.

Posted: **13 Oct 2011, 16:19**

curtis wood wrote:if frankie is going to go to the top it must be at 140 hes not big enough for welter, he will beat some welters on ability alone but the better ones will be too big and strong for him he wont be able to keep them off him over 12 rounds, his power is decent not massive, its his accuracy that is more impressive than his power, the higher his weight goes the slower he becomes, it makes him easier to hit, by coming in heavier than he should be he gives up alot of his advantages and just makes him a good domestic fighter, if he was at 140 he would have a good chance of getting to the top, at 147 id fancy purdy to beat him and kell brook would be way too powerfull for him, i like frankie hes a top fella but to reach his potential he must stay at 140lbs, i hope i have it wrong but thats how i see it

Exactly how i see it Curtis.

Posted: **13 Oct 2011, 16:33**

I think that's a fair appraisal from Curtis.

Arnie said to me in the gym before the Woodhouse fight that he was struggling to make 140 on the one occasion he has made it thus far, and that he'd be at 147 from now on. He (Frankie) then said that it would be 140 from then on and blamed his previously poor diet of beans on toast..... and now I'm sure I've read somewhere that now he's in London they've said that it'll be 147 from now on too.

Despite being a relatively novice pro he's 26 and still filling out, I'm no expert on these things but don't your bones continue getting heavier until you reach your 30's?

If he can't make 140 without killing himself he's best staying at 147 and maximising his strength at that weight as best he can. As a fan I'd rather he focused on improving his skill set more in training than using his time to shed weight.

Despite his obvious ability there are some areas that need tightening, he needs to ram home his jab rather than paw with it, Curtis was quite prepared to be hit with it to get his own shots off. He needs to use his right hook to the body more and also his straight left, which is accurate and is variable.

A lot of us had said that he needed an opponent to come and take his head off in order to impress, well, Curtis came to beat him and Frankie was pretty flat, despite winning most of the rounds in my opinion, 8-4 was about right.

The critics are too keen to point to the weight issues and supposedly that he likes a beer etc, but to me that's a bit unfair to the likes of Woodhouse who took the play away from him to a degree and made him look average.

Was kinda funny in the arena that night, loads booed him into the ring apart from a group of 100 or so people to the right of us, and afterwards he had the respect of everyone.

Even if he is an ex-blunt scummer!!

Posted: **14 Oct 2011, 03:38**

BoxingAnalyst wrote:
curtis wood wrote:if frankie is going to go to the top it must be at 140 hes not big enough for welter, he will beat some welters on ability alone but the better ones will be too big and strong for him he wont be able to keep them off him over 12 rounds, his power is decent not massive, its his accuracy that is more impressive than his power, the higher his weight goes the slower he becomes, it makes him easier to hit, by coming in heavier than he should be he gives up alot of his advantages and just makes him a good domestic fighter, if he was at 140 he would have a good chance of getting to the top, at 147 id fancy purdy to beat him and kell brook would be way too powerfull for him, i like frankie hes a top fella but to reach his potential he must stay at 140lbs, i hope i have it wrong but thats how i see it
Exactly how i see it Curtis.

agreed, Curtis your input is very interesting mate

Posted: **14 Oct 2011, 14:44**

J wrote:THEY DONT WANT THEOPHANE YET.

on present form gavin loses that fight.

I would bet my life on Frankie beating Ashley. He is very, very, good..

Posted: **14 Oct 2011, 14:45**

mickey1975 wrote:
J wrote:THEY DONT WANT THEOPHANE YET.

on present form gavin loses that fight.
I would bet my life on Frankie beating Ashley. He is very, very, good..

Not on his last fight he wouldnt

Posted: **14 Oct 2011, 16:27**

I respect Curtis opinion but it would kill me making 10st I would keep speed nothing else I feel stronger now with my new diet an the strength an conditioning work I have never done it because I thought it was not needed but my last fight proved me wrong I am improving my strength at the moment an sure I will get stronger lots of things in my life an lifestyle have changed so hopefully people will start seeing a difference

Posted: **14 Oct 2011, 21:10**

Frankie Gavin wrote:I respect Curtis opinion but it would kill me making 10st I would keep speed nothing else I feel stronger now with my new diet an the strength an conditioning work I have never done it because I thought it was not needed but my last fight proved me wrong I am improving my strength at the moment an sure I will get stronger lots of things in my life an lifestyle have changed so hopefully people will start seeing a difference

Good luck, mush

Posted: **15 Oct 2011, 03:46**

mickey1975 wrote:
Frankie Gavin wrote:I respect Curtis opinion but it would kill me making 10st I would keep speed nothing else I feel stronger now with my new diet an the strength an conditioning work I have never done it because I thought it was not needed but my last fight proved me wrong I am improving my strength at the moment an sure I will get stronger lots of things in my life an lifestyle have changed so hopefully people will start seeing a difference
Good luck, mush

Posted: **15 Oct 2011, 04:09**

Frankie Gavin wrote:I respect Curtis opinion but it would kill me making 10st I would keep speed nothing else I feel stronger now with my new diet an the strength an conditioning work I have never done it because I thought it was not needed but my last fight proved me wrong I am improving my strength at the moment an sure I will get stronger lots of things in my life an lifestyle have changed so hopefully people will start seeing a difference

Hope it all works out Frankie, would love to see you bring some major title fights to the Birmingham

Posted: **15 Oct 2011, 04:21**

curtis wood wrote:if frankie is going to go to the top it must be at 140 hes not big enough for welter, he will beat some welters on ability alone but the better ones will be too big and strong for him he wont be able to keep them off him over 12 rounds, his power is decent not massive, its his accuracy that is more impressive than his power, the higher his weight goes the slower he becomes, it makes him easier to hit, by coming in heavier than he should be he gives up alot of his advantages and just makes him a good domestic fighter, if he was at 140 he would have a good chance of getting to the top, at 147 id fancy purdy to beat him and kell brook would be way too powerfull for him, i like frankie hes a top fella but to reach his potential he must stay at 140lbs, i hope i have it wrong but thats how i see it

Interesting.

No disrespect to Anthony Farnell, but i think we'll see an improvement from Gavin under Jimmy and Mark Tibbs.

Posted: **15 Oct 2011, 05:56**

you and your team know your body better than me and if you think that 147 is gunna be better for you and you can build up into that then good luck, defo got the talent to go all the way ill be rooting for you from now on

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