How long before Brtain has a REAL Heavyweight Champion..

[Quixall]

I think we all look at British heavies with rose tinted glasses, we as a country have never had any real depth at world class.
We have had a couple of stand out heavies, but usually we have 1 or 2 at any one time that can win some, lose some at a high level.

The only stand out heavyweight has been Lewis...................That's it

Bruno and Haye were decent and i think the likes of Bugner and Cooper would have been able to pick up alphabet titles aswell in this era, if you go purely on ability and not weight issues as would be the case with Cooper. I don't really count people like Hide, Bent, Akinwande etc etc

For me, Bruno was a better HW than Haye, he fought far stiffer opposition generally - was valuev any better than McCall - probably not? Sure, Bruno lost a few, and fought some palookas, but he also iced a tonne of heavyweight opposition, and his fight with Lewis, even though it was a loss, stands him in good stead.

Bruno was winning that fight against Lewis until that sudden stoppage. Like the Witherspoon fight, it was just one punch that ultimately denied him. Bruno fought in a more competative era and of course you had Tyson at the top of the tree for much of that time. I think they all fight "palookas" as you call them, but Bruno had the longer career at heavyweight and had sterner tests than was the case with Haye, who didn't really fight anyone of note untill Wladimir. Valuev was just a lumbering giant, Ruiz was years past his prime, Barrett was just ordinary and Audley.............Well it was Audley

[Lenny]

I took your comment to mean it took 100 years to get a belt.
Fitzsimmons was JUST a belt holder. But there might have only been 1 belt.

Lennox is the only real heavyweight champ we have had using the criteria of Real Heayweight CHamp.

You should not have mentioned the 'belt holder' fitzsimmonds. Confused me.

Well it's your turn to confuse me. Fitzsimmons beat Gentleman Jim Corbett for the linear championship.

And Buster Douglas beat Tyson.

Mccall beat Lewis.

And Buster Douglas was the REAL Heavyweight Champion, just like Fitzsimmons. Unless you're trying to say his victory over Corbett was a one off fluke? We ain't talking Alex Arthur here

[Riddim]

Well it's your turn to confuse me. Fitzsimmons beat Gentleman Jim Corbett for the linear championship.

And Buster Douglas beat Tyson.

Mccall beat Lewis.

And Buster Douglas was the REAL Heavyweight Champion, just like Fitzsimmons. Unless you're trying to say his victory over Corbett was a one off fluke? We ain't talking Alex Arthur here

But good old Bob did not dominate the division Lewis style.
Thats the point of the thread.

[keithmoonhangover]

And Buster Douglas beat Tyson.

Mccall beat Lewis.

And Buster Douglas was the REAL Heavyweight Champion, just like Fitzsimmons. Unless you're trying to say his victory over Corbett was a one off fluke? We ain't talking Alex Arthur here

But good old Bob did not dominate the division Lewis style.
Thats the point of the thread.

Bob was THE heavyweight champion of the world. Lewis wasn't the holder of the linear title 'til he beat Briggs.

Yes Lewis made plenty of defences, but he didn't fight Tyson or Holyfield in their primes.

[yiddo14]

Because Tyson's prime was barely 30 seconds long according to some and Holyfield had 15 different primes according to others!

I know one thing, BOTH chose not to fight Lewis before they eventually had to face him, and that speaks volumes.

If we are talking about how long before Britain has a heavy as good as Lennox, then I suspect chances are none of us here will live long enough to see him. After Lewis the quality of British heavies falls off hugely and there is nobody around right now that could even surpass Bruno or Bugner IMO, let alone Lewis.

Might have a belt holder or two in the next ten years but Price, Fury even Joshua, these chaps are nothing like potential all time greats.

[Quixall]

Because Tyson's prime was barely 30 seconds long according to some and Holyfield had 15 different primes according to others!

I know one thing, BOTH chose not to fight Lewis before they eventually had to face him, and that speaks volumes.

If we are talking about how long before Britain has a heavy as good as Lennox, then I suspect chances are none of us here will live long enough to see him. After Lewis the quality of British heavies falls off hugely and there is nobody around right now that could even surpass Bruno or Bugner IMO, let alone Lewis.

Might have a belt holder or two in the next ten years but Price, Fury even Joshua, these chaps are nothing like potential all time greats.

Before the Douglas fight and the prison stint Tyson would have beaten Lewis quite easily because Lennox didn't mature as a heavyweight until his late 20's early 30's, where as Tyson peaked at around 23-24 years of age. After Douglas and the prison Stint Lennox would have the edge, but when they actually met, Tyson was a washed up has been cashing in on his name.

[yiddo14]

Lewis had been a pro for 6 months when Douglas beat Tyson so it's irrelevant really.

Tyson had a short prime obviously but I think he didn't always look invincible during this prime. Tills gave him plenty of trouble for example.

Tyson could have fought Lewis earlier than he did, he just didn't fancy the beating that he knew that would come with it.

Tyson in his prime against Lewis in his prime is the dream fight obviously and out of a series of ten, Mike wins one, maybe two at best.

The real big grudge fights of the era we all missed out on. Lewis - Bowe would have made a trilogy to remember and elevated both men's position within the game. Shame Bowe didn't fancy it ( I see a trend here )

[keithmoonhangover]

Lewis had been a pro for 6 months when Douglas beat Tyson so it's irrelevant really.

Tyson had a short prime obviously but I think he didn't always look invincible during this prime. Tills gave him plenty of trouble for example.

Tyson could have fought Lewis earlier than he did, he just didn't fancy the beating that he knew that would come with it.

Tyson in his prime against Lewis in his prime is the dream fight obviously and out of a series of ten, Mike wins one, maybe two at best.

The real big grudge fights of the era we all missed out on. Lewis - Bowe would have made a trilogy to remember and elevated both men's position within the game. Shame Bowe didn't fancy it ( I see a trend here )

I must have read that wrong, it says the Tyson that beat Larry Holmes in four rounds, loses to Lennox Lewis 8 or 9 times out of ten.

Tyson had trouble with Tillis because of James' speed and height. Lewis has neither.

[yiddo14]

Tyson did not beat Larry Holmes, let alone beat him in 4 rounds.

He beat a man who shared the same name

Do you think Berbick beating Ali means anything when discussing a prime Berbick v Foreman mythical match up?

[Giancarlo]

Yes. I meant Fitz was just a beltholder and nowhere near as good as Lewis.

Jayzus!

[Riddim]

Yes. I meant Fitz was just a beltholder and nowhere near as good as Lewis.

Jayzus!

Bob would do well to beat SRL!

[keithmoonhangover]

Tyson did not beat Larry Holmes, let alone beat him in 4 rounds.

He beat a man who shared the same name

Do you think Berbick beating Ali means anything when discussing a prime Berbick v Foreman mythical match up?

You're talking complete bollocks yiddo. The Ali that fought Berbick was COMPLETELY finished in the game. Holmes went on to beat Mercer and didn't get stopped by Holyfield or McCall.

Besides, I was only trying to point out that Tyson was in his prime in that fight. Tell me, which fight was Lewis in his prime.

[keithmoonhangover]

I must have read that wrong, it says the Tyson that beat Larry Holmes in four rounds, loses to Lennox Lewis 8 or 9 times out of ten.

Tyson had trouble with Tillis because of James' speed and height. Lewis has neither.

Height? This guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsfcZCFIs1I

Lewis is 6ft5. That guy isn't that much bigger than Tyson, and he isn't anywhere near Lewis' height.

I didn't say he was taller than Lewis. I was talking about Tillis not being so tall. Like Holyfield, it meant Tyson wasn't punching up.

[keithmoonhangover]

Height? This guy?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsfcZCFIs1I

Lewis is 6ft5. That guy isn't that much bigger than Tyson, and he isn't anywhere near Lewis' height.

I didn't say he was taller than Lewis. I was talking about Tillis not being so tall. Like Holyfield, it meant Tyson wasn't punching up.

So what you're saying is that Tyson had more trouble with a fighter who was 2" taller than him than he would have with a fighter who is 6" taller than him?

100% Tyson used his lack of height to his advantage.

[FtmPress]

Price hasn't beaten anyone who is remotely near world class, so I'm not sure if he will be able to cut it at that level.

Price shouldn't be fighting world class opposition at this stage of his career. McDermott is a very, very good test for him.

As for someone 'along the lines of Lennox Lewis,' it simply won't happen for a long, long time, if ever.

Look at Lennox's early record and tell me any outstanding name there he was brought alone just right the same way we are doing David Price i believe into day's market Price will be ready to fight and win the world title after 5 to 6 more fights. Every fighter has a fight that moves him to a new level can any one tell me what one was Lennox 's fight and us in the Price team know which fight it is and will be for him, But first he must deal with Big Bad John which is a good test and very dangerous

[keithmoonhangover]

Price shouldn't be fighting world class opposition at this stage of his career. McDermott is a very, very good test for him.

As for someone 'along the lines of Lennox Lewis,' it simply won't happen for a long, long time, if ever.

Look at Lennox's early record and tell me any outstanding name there he was brought alone just right the same way we are doing David Price i believe into day's market Price will be ready to fight and win the world title after 5 to 6 more fights. Every fighter has a fight that moves him to a new level can any one tell me what one was Lennox 's fight and us in the Price team know which fight it is and will be for him, But first he must deal with Big Bad John which is a good test and very dangerous

I would say the Mason fight was a big step as it was for a title against an unbeaten man. But in many the fight before that was against a kind of gate keeper of a lower level type fighter in Jean Chanet who was on a decent run at the time so those 2 fights moved Lewis on IMO to another level which was world many to do with how easy he took care of them

Frank did a hell of a job bringing Lewis along, some people doubted him when he struggled with Dan Murphy and Ossie Ocasio, but they were great learning fights.

[Riddim]

I think Lewis/Maloney did a great job. Its early days but Joshua might be the guy to take over from Lewis. Take him to the states early in his career to ge the best sparring ( no wars, just technical) and we may have LL 2!