BoxRec

maltesecharlie wrote:There is no proof. You will never have a fighter saying on camera that he did not want to box an opponent, its always gossip and here say. If you have a boxer going around saying he is the best pound for pound then he should fight the best and I don't think he wanted either fight especially Cotto. I think Mayweather is a great fighter but he always fights on his own terms or not at all, some people might say thats smart and for the record I don't think Pacquiao would beat him at Welterweight. It would just be nice to see the fight.

maltesecharlie wrote:There is no proof. You will never have a fighter saying on camera that he did not want to box an opponent, its always gossip and here say. If you have a boxer going around saying he is the best pound for pound then he should fight the best and I don't think he wanted either fight especially Cotto. I think Mayweather is a great fighter but he always fights on his own terms or not at all, some people might say thats smart and for the record I don't think Pacquiao would beat him at Welterweight. It would just be nice to see the fight.

maltesecharlie wrote:Its ok saying Mayweather would beat Margarito and Cotto now but at the time he did not want to fight them.

maltesecharlie wrote: I think Mayweather is a great fighter but he always fights on his own terms or not at all,

P4P#1 wrote:

maltesecharlie wrote:There is no proof. You will never have a fighter saying on camera that he did not want to box an opponent, its always gossip and here say. If you have a boxer going around saying he is the best pound for pound then he should fight the best and I don't think he wanted either fight especially Cotto. I think Mayweather is a great fighter but he always fights on his own terms or not at all, some people might say thats smart and for the record I don't think Pacquiao would beat him at Welterweight. It would just be nice to see the fight.

The same can be said about manny, his last 6 fights have been taylor made for him, he's had advantage in weight (meaning its always set at a weight he'll be most powerfull at whuile his opponent will often have to drain like made to make that weight or bulk up to a unreasonalbe weight) why doesnt he fight marquez at lightweight or even 140, id have more respect for manny if he'd have fought cotto before cotto fought margarito and he'd fought margarito after marg beat cotto, when they both looked a lot better than they did at the time he faced them.

Quixall wrote:

LeedsLad wrote:Manny has fulfilled all obligations set by the commission in which his fights take place.

Floyd on the other hand insists that he's the best fighter in history, despite not facing a top class, primed welterweight in seven years in the division.

If this fight doesn't happen it'll reflect very badly on Floyd, whereas Manny has gotten on with his career and easily surpassed him in a historical significance sense.

Even if it did happen and Floyd won, unless it's an annihilation Pacquiao will still rank higher.

Why would Manny rank higher ?

The only impressive thing that Manny seems to have over Floyd is how he has come through the weight divisions so succesfully which ultimately is what the tests are all about. The only two fighters that i would have liked and still would like Floyd to face from that welterweight period a few years back are Cotto and Margarito. Floyd could face both guys at catch weight (150lbs) and have them on his record, because i have no doubt at all that he beats both of them comfortably. Then that equates to what Manny has done, apart from fighting Diaz, everything else Floyd has done. If Floyd then beat Martinez he would comfortably surpass what Manny has achieved bar the move through the weights which has been more extreme that Floyd's move through the weights. Don't forget Floyd beat at top rated De La Hoya, not a weight drained old version, Floyd beat an unbeaten Ricky Hatton, not the slightly scarred version. Floyd has beaten Mosley and Marquez as has Pacquaio. Clottey or Diaz is equivalent to Floyd facing Ortiz, game but not that great. Plus it also has to be said that Floyd hasn't lost and Manny has lost three times, though i don't give much credence to unbeaten fighting records in the main. Like i said earlier, manny's rise through the weights is steeper than Floyd's and Floyd hasn't faced Cotto and Margarito as Manny has, so i too feel that he should face those fighters, though i belive he would beat either comfortably. I belive that both will be seen as great all time fighters, but that Floyd will edge it because like it or not, he is a more glamorous figure and things like that seem to count as it did for instance if you compare the careers and fights of Ali and Joe Frazier. They both achieved the same things and it's difficult to seperate them apart from their fighting styles, but Ali had the greater PR, personality and style, hence he goes slightly above Frazier in the memory of the general public who watched them both fight.

LeedsLad wrote:

Quixall wrote:

LeedsLad wrote:Manny has fulfilled all obligations set by the commission in which his fights take place.

Floyd on the other hand insists that he's the best fighter in history, despite not facing a top class, primed welterweight in seven years in the division.

If this fight doesn't happen it'll reflect very badly on Floyd, whereas Manny has gotten on with his career and easily surpassed him in a historical significance sense.

Even if it did happen and Floyd won, unless it's an annihilation Pacquiao will still rank higher.

Why would Manny rank higher ?

The only impressive thing that Manny seems to have over Floyd is how he has come through the weight divisions so succesfully which ultimately is what the tests are all about. The only two fighters that i would have liked and still would like Floyd to face from that welterweight period a few years back are Cotto and Margarito. Floyd could face both guys at catch weight (150lbs) and have them on his record, because i have no doubt at all that he beats both of them comfortably. Then that equates to what Manny has done, apart from fighting Diaz, everything else Floyd has done. If Floyd then beat Martinez he would comfortably surpass what Manny has achieved bar the move through the weights which has been more extreme that Floyd's move through the weights. Don't forget Floyd beat at top rated De La Hoya, not a weight drained old version, Floyd beat an unbeaten Ricky Hatton, not the slightly scarred version. Floyd has beaten Mosley and Marquez as has Pacquaio. Clottey or Diaz is equivalent to Floyd facing Ortiz, game but not that great. Plus it also has to be said that Floyd hasn't lost and Manny has lost three times, though i don't give much credence to unbeaten fighting records in the main. Like i said earlier, manny's rise through the weights is steeper than Floyd's and Floyd hasn't faced Cotto and Margarito as Manny has, so i too feel that he should face those fighters, though i belive he would beat either comfortably. I belive that both will be seen as great all time fighters, but that Floyd will edge it because like it or not, he is a more glamorous figure and things like that seem to count as it did for instance if you compare the careers and fights of Ali and Joe Frazier. They both achieved the same things and it's difficult to seperate them apart from their fighting styles, but Ali had the greater PR, personality and style, hence he goes slightly above Frazier in the memory of the general public who watched them both fight.

I'd rank Pacquiao higher based upon his record, five wins over three truly brilliant Mexicans against a decision defeat and a draw.

Like you, I've little doubt that Floyd would have beaten both Margarito in late 2006 and Cotto mid 2008, but unfortunately it never happened.

I'm not really fussed for titles, Manny could be a 12 weight world champion and it wouldn't really affect my rating of him.

bfchunk wrote:As always there is a lot to be said for hindsight in looking at their opponents/potential opponents.

The Pacquiao - De La Hoya fight is looked at considerably differently post fight than it was when it was made. Many feared Manny would be slaughtered. Ok, yes Floyd faced a better and sensible weighed version.

Cotto and Margarito were viewed as much more dangerous opponents when they were top of the list for Floyd to fight them than they are looked at now. That should not be ignored. Their risk was identified and weight managed by Manny's team.

maltesecharlie wrote:Maybe he could or should fight him at light welter but I don't think you can say that he has had it his own way weight wise. He fought Hatton at light welter, Cotto at welter and Margarito at light middle. I would prefer to see this fight at light welter too.

LeedsLad wrote:The Cotto thing was a bit shit, but there wasn't much objection from the Cotto camp and he looked in brilliant shape.

Margarito is a strange one, it was a blatant belt grab, Manny would probably have copped less stick dragging him down to 147 for a shot at the WBO title.

P4P#1 wrote:

LeedsLad wrote:The Cotto thing was a bit shit, but there wasn't much objection from the Cotto camp and he looked in brilliant shape.

Margarito is a strange one, it was a blatant belt grab, Manny would probably have copped less stick dragging him down to 147 for a shot at the WBO title.

I dnt think there was much complaint as is was probably the biggest pay day of his career lol, but i think it would have made a difference, im a big cotto fan so i would say it, but cotto is known for struggling gettin weight off and was know for being a massive drainer at 140, i just think if manny was that confident he'd jus say eff it its for welterweight title so its 147 if i come in under thats just how it is, i think it may be more the crowd around manny than manny himself they obviously would want each stipulation in the negotiations favouring there fighter,

Riddim wrote:
But we all know the commission teats are flawed. Easily beat.
Manny seems to be takg the route favoured by Oscar. Only fight 'dangerous' fighters when they have been beaten badly or outclassed. Margarito and Sugar Shane spring to mind.
Manny seems wary of the test. If nothing to hide he should submiot to this one stipulation and kick Floyds behind. But I do not think Manny believes he can beat him.

Riddim wrote:

boxerbob wrote:on the scene

hmmm is manny fighting next week??? somebody cant handle being out of the spotlight.

floyd has had 2 years to do this fight , maybe he knows hes going to jail or something

i will believe the fight is on if manny team confirm what mayweather team has said , contacrts have been signed and both fighters and face to face in the middle of the ring waiting to fight

Dont mean to be rude but nanny has refused to prove he is not taking illegal drugs.
Manny has as much blame if not more.