BoxRec

The Great John L wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I didn't say Tyson struggled because HE was intimidated. I said he struggled when his opponents weren't intimidated by him.

I think the very same thing could be said of Foreman as well.

Foreman did not struggle wit frazier

What a fight this would be.

When people say Tyson froze when opponents weren't afraid to fight back aren't strictly correct, I think it was a lot to do with Tyson not being used to fighters lasting long and he either run out of ideas or got frustrated.

Foreman was physically so powerful and someone of Tysons build was made for him, I can see Foreman pushing Tyson away everytime he got close and hitting him with uppercuts.

Tyson was always dangerous in the early rounds and had the speed and power to cause anyone problems but I see Foreman wearing Tyson down and stopping him in 5 rounds.

Tyson was not mentally strong enough to beat Foreman IMO.

We all know what happened to Tyson when he met with adversity in the ring & he WOULD have met with adversity & then some against Foreman (circa 1973).

Tyson's speed might have made it interesting for a while (could even have floored Big George), but I think Foreman's physical strength & power would have been too much for Tyson to overcome.

Foreman by TKO in about 6 rounds.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:The Lyle fight comprehensively proves Foreman had a substantially lesser reliance on intimidation and front running. I actually think Lyle had Foreman intimidated on a few occasions (theres some really good up-close shots of Foreman in that bout), but he prevailed in extrdme duress. Tyson could never have recovered from an identical situation. Never.

I would tend to agree that the Lyle fight clearly shows Foreman’s great will to win, which was perhaps his greatest asset. It also shows how, despite the whipping he took from Ali, that George was still George. And yes, I’m sure George was a little intimidated once Lyle started pounding on him.

Of course there is nothing about this fight that “…comprehensively proves Foreman had a substantially lesser reliance on intimidation and front running”. While it is an excellent example to support that opinion, it far from comprehensively proving anything.

Remember that all of these fights used to show Tyson somehow lacked the mental makeup of a great fighter were also all examples of an exhausted Tyson facing adversity, similar to what Foreman faced against Ali. And I don’t recall George overcoming the adversity in Zaire to come back and beat Ali. Does anyone have any examples of Tyson getting knocked around early and folding up shop? Despite being arguably shot, he certainly showed a lot of heart when he didn’t simply fold up from the beating he took from Lewis.

scallum wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I didn't say Tyson struggled because HE was intimidated. I said he struggled when his opponents weren't intimidated by him.

I think the very same thing could be said of Foreman as well.

Foreman did not struggle wit frazier

You're absolutely right. And Tyson didn't struggle with Berbick either.

The Great John L wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:The Lyle fight comprehensively proves Foreman had a substantially lesser reliance on intimidation and front running. I actually think Lyle had Foreman intimidated on a few occasions (theres some really good up-close shots of Foreman in that bout), but he prevailed in extrdme duress. Tyson could never have recovered from an identical situation. Never.

I would tend to agree that the Lyle fight clearly shows Foreman’s great will to win, which was perhaps his greatest asset. It also shows how, despite the whipping he took from Ali, that George was still George. And yes, I’m sure George was a little intimidated once Lyle started pounding on him.

Of course there is nothing about this fight that “…comprehensively proves Foreman had a substantially lesser reliance on intimidation and front running”. While it is an excellent example to support that opinion, it far from comprehensively proving anything.

Remember that all of these fights used to show Tyson somehow lacked the mental makeup of a great fighter were also all examples of an exhausted Tyson facing adversity, similar to what Foreman faced against Ali. And I don’t recall George overcoming the adversity in Zaire to come back and beat Ali. Does anyone have any examples of Tyson getting knocked around early and folding up shop? Despite being arguably shot, he certainly showed a lot of heart when he didn’t simply fold up from the beating he took from Lewis.

Watch the staredown again between them just before the bell for round one. Lyle gets immediately in his face, I suspect catches Foreman a little off-guard, and rattles him --- before a punch is thrown. I count two further instances where Foreman, to me, looked worried to the point of fear.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Watch the staredown again between them just before the bell for round one. Lyle gets immediately in his face, I suspect catches Foreman a little off-guard, and rattles him --- before a punch is thrown. I count two further instances where Foreman, to me, looked worried to the point of fear.

Perhaps George felt kind of like he was looking in a mirror. As I've stated before, there was little to choose between these two, as the fight demonstrated. George's iron will gave him a slight advantage.

Foreman got up from the second knockdown as though he were sleep-walking, though. You wonder what would have happened next had the bell not sounded --- he was in real trouble.

Of course, on the other hand, Foreman had Lyle in (less severe) trouble when the bell sounded a full minute early in round two.

As I recall, Lyle had recovered pretty well by the time the bell sounded @ the 2 minute mark of round two. I seem to remember that Howie didn't even mention the fact that the round ended early, at least not when it happened.

I also recall that they both showed pretty good skills in the fight until the knockdowns started and they both tried their best to impersonate Luis Firpo. I tend to look at that fight as George's best performance, because he was able to persevere and outlast Lyle. It certainly was a gut check that few HWs in history could have survived.

Controversial wrote:What a fight this would be.

When people say Tyson froze when opponents weren't afraid to fight back aren't strictly correct, I think it was a lot to do with Tyson not being used to fighters lasting long and he either run out of ideas or got frustrated.

Foreman was physically so powerful and someone of Tysons build was made for him, I can see Foreman pushing Tyson away everytime he got close and hitting him with uppercuts.

Tyson was always dangerous in the early rounds and had the speed and power to cause anyone problems but I see Foreman wearing Tyson down and stopping him in 5 rounds.

Foreman pushing Tyson away, right?

Hmmnnn...

Seems like I saw him doing that in another fight.

scallum wrote:

The Great John L wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:I didn't say Tyson struggled because HE was intimidated. I said he struggled when his opponents weren't intimidated by him.

I think the very same thing could be said of Foreman as well.

Foreman did not struggle wit frazier

He didn't get the real version.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Leave the headgame out then.

Tyson still isnt overcoming the style clash. D'Amato agreed with me.

Well, if D'Amato said so, I guess we can all go home.

yancey wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Leave the headgame out then.

Tyson still isnt overcoming the style clash. D'Amato agreed with me.

Well, if D'Amato said so, I guess we can all go home.

I still want to see that interview!

roccittymaj wrote:

yancey wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Leave the headgame out then.

Tyson still isnt overcoming the style clash. D'Amato agreed with me.

Well, if D'Amato said so, I guess we can all go home.

I still want to see that interview!

delete.

btw, my money would most likely be on '73 Foreman vs '87 Tyson.

The style matchup is indeed bad for the swarmer.

Not saying it could not be overcome. The key is to get in a good early body shot and sticking real tight.

You sort of can't discount the "fact" that Mike was "pre disposed" by his opinion of George. He would be pre "psyched" IMHO.

If you could somehow pull that from the hypothetical, I think it's a closer bet, but I'd still back George.

BoxBuzz wrote:You sort of can't discount the "fact" that Mike was "pre disposed" by his opinion of George. He would be pre "psyched" IMHO.

If you could somehow pull that from the hypothetical, I think it's a closer bet, but I'd still back George.

Mike Tyson knows fighters, probably better than any other fighter in history & he would have known the threat that George represented.

He certainly would have psyched himself into believing that he could beat George, but it would have become apparent to him very quickly that he was going to catch hell with George & that's where Mike would have unravelled mentally IMO.

Tyson's handlers tried to keep him far away from Foreman with good reason. That alone is proof that Tyson never had the mental make-up to beat someone like George Foreman.

yancey wrote:btw, my money would most likely be on '73 Foreman vs '87 Tyson.

The style matchup is indeed bad for the swarmer.

Not saying it could not be overcome. The key is to get in a good early body shot and sticking real tight.

The problem with sticking real tight for Tyson is that he never was much of an inside fighter.

hhaehre wrote:

yancey wrote:btw, my money would most likely be on '73 Foreman vs '87 Tyson.

The style matchup is indeed bad for the swarmer.

Not saying it could not be overcome. The key is to get in a good early body shot and sticking real tight.

The problem with sticking real tight for Tyson is that he never was much of an inside fighter.

You are right, I was really thinking more of Frazier than Tyson when making that observation.

I'm going with: Foreman.