BoxRec

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 19:34**

exittored wrote:
Camcas wrote:
rhino222 wrote:firstly it was a magnificent fight, helenius is good, very good, surprisingly durable and hard hitting for his build. chirosa fought an excellent fight, he battled helenius and the referee. much as i am a fury fan i thought we might be watching the 3rd and 4th best heavyweights in the world in there. i had it 115-113 to chirosa, that indicates it was a close fight, therefore it was not a robbery, no cigar im afraid!
Helenius is awful
Helenius broke his right hand in the 1st rd, thats his power punch hand so let's not judge him on this performance.

Excuses he got dominated and lost the fight clearly!! Helenius is only champion know because of a total robbery

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 19:37**

I didn't see the fight, but it seems that chisora was hard done by, and if anyone could do without a demoralising decision it was del boy. I feel for him, I really do. His stock may have risen, but mentally it will probably take some time to get over being robbed.

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 19:37**

black panther wrote:I can't see how you can have that fight for Helenius or even close to be honest. Maybe I'm missing something. He was missing most of his shots and his workrate was very low. Meanwhile Chisora was consistently getting to his body and ocassionally clean to the head whilst maintaining the workrate.

For the record going in I thought Helenius would win by knockout.

If Chisora had got the decision then i wouldn't have questioned it but i knew he wouldn't as even though he won alot of rds he probably left a few other ones that should have been his 'open for interpretation' and when your fighting in the home favourites country you can't do that.

Also alot of Chisora's punches were being blocked too, his real success was those body punches. Even though Helenius threw a lot less i did think he was much more accurate.

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 19:51**

Helenius was as average as i thought he was after watching some fight videos of him last night. Chisora put his heart and soul into waht was a fairly close fight, but i had Derek by two rounds at least. You could see the faces in Helenius' team all smiling shortly after the final bell went and as soon as it said split decision, i just smiled and throught "Here we go........." !!

Decisions like this will ultimately kill off boxing altogether in the not too distant future, because effectively you can't win a close fight on the continent. The only way you will get a decision is if the fight is a complete landslide or the home guy gets knocked out and there are an awful lot of fights that are not landslides and a lot of fights were no-one gets knocked out.

I thought Chisora did well, boxed beyond what everyone thought he would and his stock has risen because of it, he must feel terrible to have put on a performance like that, took the fight to Helenius and not got the decision. I wish Derek had done less clowning and pressurised a little bit more at times, but as long as it went 12 rounds he was never going to get the decision.

When i see fights like this and other numerous ones we have had this year, where money and politics have decided fights over talent and what is seen in the ring, it really makes me wonder whether i'm wasting my time supporting the sport and coming on sites like this to discuss it. On nights like this i really do sometimes want to tell boxing to go fornicate itself.................

Hard luck Derek, you, we, were all robbed....................again !!

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 19:55**

Helenius top 5 HW?
Shit, can you imagine what George Foerman would have done to Helenius?

T'was a good fight but the HW divsion sucks balls.

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 20:01**

Jon Saxon wrote:Helenius top 5 HW?
Shit, can you imagine what George Foerman would have done to Helenius?

T'was a good fight but the HW divsion sucks balls.

True Jon,

fornicating terrible division

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 20:05**

Why do you get home decisions in a Country when none of the judges are from there?

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 20:12**

Just caught this on Sky+

Great fight, but could see the decision would favour Helenius. Chisora's stock has risen regardless and that is the positive to take from this.

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 21:26**

King Tubby wrote:Why do you get home decisions in a Country when none of the judges are from there?

promoters

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 21:34**

Just back from the fight. Chisora exposed Helenius tonight and he got robbed by the judges. Disgraceful scoring. I had Del boy by 4, I spoke to a Finnish reporter who had Chisora by 2 and he said that he had been generous with two of the rounds he gave to Helenius in his scoring.

At the post-fight presser, Helenius said he hurt his hand early in the fight. I thought Francis Warren spoke very well at the post fight presser, and I agree with him - Chisora got robbed and there should be an immediate rematch. Don Charles was furious and said that the scoring is killing boxing. Chisora was very pissed off too and used a little bit of industrial language to emphasis his point.

Also, at the post-fight presser - Huck challenged Povetkin for a shot at his title. Team Povetkin said they would be happy to oblige and Atlas said he would do it next week.

Great crowd tonight, 12,000 people. But they only made noise in the first and final round - that told its own story.

Posted: **03 Dec 2011, 22:19**

crusader wrote:
King Tubby wrote:Why do you get home decisions in a Country when none of the judges are from there?
promoters

Doing what? Threatening not to get them more work if they don't get the wanted result?

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 04:12**

It's not like we can take the high ground any more either.

We are just as bad when it comes to foreign fighters..... look at Cox vs Sai, a fight as one-sided as last night with the addition of two points deductions.

It's embarrassing though in this modern era with so many people watching, not like the olden days where you'd have the odd scribe making their thoughts known. Whoever is in charge needs to realise that people have eyes.

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 04:55**

I can take the moral high ground. I am not a judge, promoter etc so I have no involvement in making dodgy decisions!

I think the fact we have Helenius cheerleaders saying it was a close fight/draw etc and neutrals saying Chisora won clearly says it all.

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 05:19**

Not on here but there are a few on the current scene.

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 05:40**

harry1980 wrote:
Camcas wrote:
rhino222 wrote:firstly it was a magnificent fight, helenius is good, very good, surprisingly durable and hard hitting for his build. chirosa fought an excellent fight, he battled helenius and the referee. much as i am a fury fan i thought we might be watching the 3rd and 4th best heavyweights in the world in there. i had it 115-113 to chirosa, that indicates it was a close fight, therefore it was not a robbery, no cigar im afraid!
Helenius is awful
Helenius in the top 4 heavweights in the world?? Hahahaha!!! I know the heavyweight division is the worst it's EVER been right now, but come on, top 4? He looked absoluetely awful in there tonight......and in previous fights too!!

so in all seriousness harry, who , apart from the K2 brothers, would beat helenius. he has beaten chirosa who is the best of our bunch.he would KO proce. the yanks have nothing coming through, maybe helenius should fight povetkin next.

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 07:00**

There will be a serious inquiry into this result. When it is concluded the judge who scored the fight for Dereck Chisora will be reprimanded and told how things are supposed to work. He will never work on a Sauerland promotion again.

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 07:26**

rhino222 wrote:
harry1980 wrote:
Camcas wrote: Helenius is awful
Helenius in the top 4 heavweights in the world?? Hahahaha!!! I know the heavyweight division is the worst it's EVER been right now, but come on, top 4? He looked absoluetely awful in there tonight......and in previous fights too!!
so in all seriousness harry, who , apart from the K2 brothers, would beat helenius. he has beaten chirosa who is the best of our bunch.he would KO proce. the yanks have nothing coming through, maybe helenius should fight povetkin next.

How's chisora the best of our bunch? he lost to fury the other month.

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 07:35**

crusader wrote:
mcato wrote:
Camcas wrote: Helenius is awful
Helenius was rubbish, unfit threw minimal punches. I dont know how he got those belts. Boxing is dying because of these decisions
There have always been loads of shit decisions and down right fixes, even when boxing was booming.

So should we just accept it? In the past, things could be hidden a lot more easily. These days, the fights are on youtube etc within minutes and reports are available all over. People are getting fed up of this shit (i'm including decisions in this country too) and turning off from the sport.

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 07:36**

MachoMan09 wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:Not on here but there are a few on the current scene.
I don't go there. But I once did go there and it resulted in an exchange of private messages with an Israeli bloke who was obsessed with Denis Lebedev. Ari, that was the Israeli's name, had somehow cottoned on to the fact I knew Denis and he asked if I would be able to obtain some signed merchandise on his behalf. We reached an agreement that the next time I saw Denis I would see what I could do. A month or so later I had been able to obtain a signed photograph of Denis that included a personalised message to Ari, albeit in Cyrillic - to the best of my knowledge, at the time, Ari only read Hebrew and English (I subsequently learned that he was also fairly well versed in Arabic but that's inconsequential).

I made contact with Ari and explained that I could post the item or, as I was due to visit Tel Aviv later the same month, we could arrange to meet up and I could deliver in person. Ari lives in Haifa, which is about 90 minutes by road if you put your toe down, and I hadn't been there for a while so thought it might make for an interesting afternoon out. Ari thought that meeting up was a great idea and we set plans in place: date, time, place.

So (to cut a long story short) I arrived at a small bar overlooking Dado beach, the weather was lovely and there wasn't a suicide bomber in sight, the girls were out in their summer finery and the signed Denis Lebedev photo was snugly tucked away in my attaché case (man-bag). I ordered a mineral water and a salad and waited for Ari to arrive. About ten minutes after our agreed rendezvous time a young boy, seven or eight, approached and said "are you the MachoMan" I said "ooh yeah" - he didn't get it - he said "Ari said you must follow me". I explained that I'd just ordered a salad that I had every intention of eating, so Ari would have to wait. I offered to buy the boy a beverage. He asked for a Pepsi. No problem. Our conversation was fairly clipped, his English was limited and my Hebrew is beyond dire.

As I was savouring a mouthful of my salad, it dawned on me that I could just give the lad the photograph. Did I really need to meet Ari? Ari hadn't arrived at the rendezvous and he lived in the same town. I'd travelled from Tel Aviv! I made the decision to hand the photograph to the boy. But as I began to reach into my attaché case he sat bolt upright, jumped down from his chair and ran from the bar. Weird. So I drove back to Tel Aviv, still have the photograph and have never heard from Ari again.

That is a fuking mental story

Good read!

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 08:48**

MachoMan09 wrote:
yiddo14 wrote:Not on here but there are a few on the current scene.
I don't go there. But I once did go there and it resulted in an exchange of private messages with an Israeli bloke who was obsessed with Denis Lebedev. Ari, that was the Israeli's name, had somehow cottoned on to the fact I knew Denis and he asked if I would be able to obtain some signed merchandise on his behalf. We reached an agreement that the next time I saw Denis I would see what I could do. A month or so later I had been able to obtain a signed photograph of Denis that included a personalised message to Ari, albeit in Cyrillic - to the best of my knowledge, at the time, Ari only read Hebrew and English (I subsequently learned that he was also fairly well versed in Arabic but that's inconsequential).

I made contact with Ari and explained that I could post the item or, as I was due to visit Tel Aviv later the same month, we could arrange to meet up and I could deliver in person. Ari lives in Haifa, which is about 90 minutes by road if you put your toe down, and I hadn't been there for a while so thought it might make for an interesting afternoon out. Ari thought that meeting up was a great idea and we set plans in place: date, time, place.

So (to cut a long story short) I arrived at a small bar overlooking Dado beach, the weather was lovely and there wasn't a suicide bomber in sight, the girls were out in their summer finery and the signed Denis Lebedev photo was snugly tucked away in my attaché case (man-bag). I ordered a mineral water and a salad and waited for Ari to arrive. About ten minutes after our agreed rendezvous time a young boy, seven or eight, approached and said "are you the MachoMan" I said "ooh yeah" - he didn't get it - he said "Ari said you must follow me". I explained that I'd just ordered a salad that I had every intention of eating, so Ari would have to wait. I offered to buy the boy a beverage. He asked for a Pepsi. No problem. Our conversation was fairly clipped, his English was limited and my Hebrew is beyond dire.

As I was savouring a mouthful of my salad, it dawned on me that I could just give the lad the photograph. Did I really need to meet Ari? Ari hadn't arrived at the rendezvous and he lived in the same town. I'd travelled from Tel Aviv! I made the decision to hand the photograph to the boy. But as I began to reach into my attaché case he sat bolt upright, jumped down from his chair and ran from the bar. Weird. So I drove back to Tel Aviv, still have the photograph and have never heard from Ari again.

Seriously? hahahhaa, that is one of the most bizarre stories I've ever heard in my life!!

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 08:59**

crusader wrote:
King Tubby wrote:Why do you get home decisions in a Country when none of the judges are from there?
promoters

Because the crowd cheers every home fighters punch whether they land or not, but dont cheer the away fighter.

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 09:01**

rhino222 wrote:
harry1980 wrote:
Camcas wrote: Helenius is awful
Helenius in the top 4 heavweights in the world?? Hahahaha!!! I know the heavyweight division is the worst it's EVER been right now, but come on, top 4? He looked absoluetely awful in there tonight......and in previous fights too!!
so in all seriousness harry, who , apart from the K2 brothers, would beat helenius. he has beaten chirosa who is the best of our bunch.he would KO proce. the yanks have nothing coming through, maybe helenius should fight povetkin next.

Well he has only beaten Chisora because of Sauerland everyone knows he lost to Chisora!! Povetkin and Fury would both walk through Helenius, Solis if in shape would have no trouble with him, Adamek is just such a better boxer if his chin held up he'd win, Chambers and Thompson would walk rings around him and Wach would put him to sleep. Could find more aswell, Helenius is not a top 10 heavyweight or close to that

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 09:32**

Well I thought Chisora won too. A fairly close fight where Chisora should have got the win by 2-3 rounds.

Sorry to say though, hardly a robbery.

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 09:34**

Camcas wrote:
rhino222 wrote:
harry1980 wrote: Helenius in the top 4 heavweights in the world?? Hahahaha!!! I know the heavyweight division is the worst it's EVER been right now, but come on, top 4? He looked absoluetely awful in there tonight......and in previous fights too!!
so in all seriousness harry, who , apart from the K2 brothers, would beat helenius. he has beaten chirosa who is the best of our bunch.he would KO proce. the yanks have nothing coming through, maybe helenius should fight povetkin next.
Well he has only beaten Chisora because of Sauerland everyone knows he lost to Chisora!! Povetkin and Fury would both walk through Helenius, Solis if in shape would have no trouble with him, Adamek is just such a better boxer if his chin held up he'd win, Chambers and Thompson would walk rings around him and Wach would put him to sleep. Could find more aswell, Helenius is not a top 10 heavyweight or close to that

i disagree totally, and if im proved wrong i will hold my hands up. last nights chirosa beats fury easily in my opinion, so how does helenius be walked over by fury?

Posted: **04 Dec 2011, 09:38**

Fury? He was wobbled by both Chisora (a badly out of conditioned one) and Firtha and dropped hard by that last guy, a non puncher, but we can dismiss that as he was having 'personal problems'

Yet Helenius damaged his right after the 1st round and people are happy to ignore that. And Fury would walk through Helenius? Amazing, really.

There is 'hype' and then there is 'HYPE'.

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