BoxRec

That tosser was personally responsible for stopping Jamie's march to the title.
In fact had he faced the tosser when slated to do so, there's an argument to say Jamie may have got his World title shot.

Balance of power and all that, if british fighters were selling out big buildings and getting the money from SKY that they used to, the fights would be here.


allegedly losing his virtual monopoly has not been a good thing for British Boxing on the whole.

MachoMan09 wrote:As soon as the talent started getting spread all over the shop and fighters were 'taking control of their own destinies' things started to go downhill for all concerned.

Apart from the small minority who simply enjoy top-class, competitive fights, & the even smaller minority who actually wonder how "our boys" (sniffs, wipes tear from eye) might do against the top guns. For weirdos like us, it's been wicked-kewl, as it were.

(I know you were talking about the business/TV side of things, Macho, so apologies 'cos this wasn't really directed at you, but I think that sentence you wrote inadvertently encapsulates a lot of what I see on here from people. I came of age when the prospect of a Brit fighting a genuine world class opponent filled you with shock & awe, 'cos they could be at home fighting Tocker Pudwill & friends for years, accumulating umpteen vacant belts & mandatory defences. I know a lot of this still goes on, but I can't remember two years where so many Brits fought so many proper fighters. It's almost like it outweighs the faceless Eastern Euro/dodgy African -type fights now.)

Matthew Hatton was practically a sacrifice to allow the WBC to crown Saul Alvarez as their World Champion with both the WBC and Alvarez hailing from Mexico as Hatton has fought at Welterweight his whole career and he simply did not have the power etc to keep Alvarez off him. As for Juan Manuel Marquez being stripped of his belts or vacating them, I don't think he has yet decided whether he will drop down either to Light-Welter or even back down to Lightweight or stay at Welter but I would not surprised if he chooses to drop back down at all.

First DaveBoyMorrison there is nothing daft about nationalism; you need to get your head in the game and start acting more like your namesake Davey Boy Smith, first step start watching reruns of Dad’s army.

I think if Ryan was with FW, big Frank would have gotten him a WBO title shot one way or another;

World champions are as much made as born, what’s the difference between Michael Watson and Modern British Great Nigel Benn, one fought Michael McCallum for the world title, one fought Mauro Galvano.

Boxing is all about picking the right fights at the right time, the fights below are the exact opposite, taking the wrong fights, at the wrong time in the wrong place.

Barker vs Martinez
Hatton vs Alvarez
Magee vs Bute
Munroe vs Nishioka
Murray vs Rios

clubberlang wrote:First DaveBoyMorrison there is nothing daft about nationalism;

Nationalism is the last refuge of a scoundrel or was it patriotism...

clubberlang wrote:Boxing is all about picking the right fights at the right time

It is if you value a paper title, won against an unremarkable belt holder over and above a proper test against those widely considered the best in the sport.

Martin Murray, for instance, is currently held in far higher regard among all boxing fans for not beating Felix Sturm than he would be held for beating someone like Golovkin or Geale.

I think if Ryan was with FW, big Frank would have gotten him a WBO title shot one way or another;

Clubber,
That's your quote.
Simple question. That being the case, why didn't he do so whilst Ryan was with him ?
He was his Manager until January 2011.
By the way that's not a dig at said Promotor / Manager. However, you seem to have a very simplified view of how boxing works.

clubberlang wrote:World champions are as much made as born, what’s the difference between Michael Watson and Modern British Great Nigel Benn, one fought Michael McCallum for the world title, one fought Mauro Galvano.

And another thing....

Benn didn't become a modern British great because he beat Galvano; his greatness was a result of his wars with Eubank and Watson (none of which he won), his wins over DeWitt, Barklay and McLellan.

Watson is held in very high regard and many (myself included) think that he would have gone on to better the achievements of Benn and Eubank had he not taken that uppercut in the Eubank fight.

All great points .

Fat Git I am a Scoundrel

Earsjohn I wouldn’t match Murray against Golovkin that would be insane (high risk, low reward). Geale on the other hand holds a major title and is beatable, by taking his crown you command a higher purse and suddenly you’re in the mix on the world stage.

twenty six I think you’ve got me, though I suspect that Frank didn’t want to match Rhodes against Alvarez and told Ryan to be patient, but Rhodes left him to pursue the fight (but that’s pure speculation on my part). As far as Ryan not been ranked by the WBO I wouldn’t worry about that, how many times have we seen fighters not ranked mysteriously turn up in the rankings after they have signed to fight the reigning WBO champion.

Earsjohn that’s exactly what I’m saying, Watson was an exceptional talented fighter, speak to your average Joe in the streets and ask them what they remember Watson for, if he is remembered at all I would almost guarantee it’s for suffering an injury in the 2nd Eubank fight.

What’s Benn remembered for by Joe Public; he’s remembered for the two fights with Eubank and the fight with Gerald McClellan (though they won’t know McClellan’s name).

Why do they remember the Benn vs Eubank fights and not the Benn vs. Watson fight, mainly because of the rivalry and characters of the two fighters but also because both fights where for “world” titles.

Also if Benn hadn’t been cleverly steered to the WBC belt, he would never have fought McClellan, the fight certainly wouldn’t have happened in England, take this fight out of England and stick it in the states and Benn is stopped in the first round by the referee, take away the crazy pro Benn crowd and I doubt Nigel would have been able to score one of the most memorable wins in British boxing history. Lots of the factors that enabled Benn to win that fight where a direct result of him been WBC champion.

Clubber,
Your speculation is wrong mate regarding Rhodes, but let's just leave it at that.
By the way, Rhodes isn't exactly shaking in his boots regarding the WBO.
Euro fight next and we'll see what happens thereafter.
To be fair it's going to be difficult to manoeuvre into a position for another shot - but not impossible.

MachoMan09 wrote:

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:allegedly losing his virtual monopoly has not been a good thing for British Boxing on the whole.

I think that's an interesting viewpoint. I have always had a soft-spot for dictatorships and oligarchies and I think they actually suit the fight game. One or, at most, a very loose handful of power brokers with all the marbles, like the Duff cartel days of lore and Dana White in MMA, is the best way for the game to be able to maintain influence over the television outlets. As soon as the talent started getting spread all over the shop and fighters were 'taking control of their own destinies' things started to go downhill for all concerned.

I think most people thought it was a "good thing" when fighters started promoted themselves and started edging out Messrs Warren, King and Arum.

I don't think it has worked out exactly as planned. All these small promotions shouting at the same time seems to have muddied the waters and pushed Boxing to the sidelines, in terms of the general public.

If the last 10 years has taught us one thing, it is that the general public like things that make sense and are easy to understand.

This Super 6 thing should have been a real winner, especially as Frotch is in the final, unfortunately it is the most complicated tournament in the history of mankind and seems to have been going on for about 5 years.

clubberlang wrote:I’m a very proud Englishman, but I’m becoming bitter, our fighter’s management teams seem to be doing our boys a massive disservice by constantly accepting world title fights in the other guy’s back yard.

Check this out

Khan vs Peterson
Chisora vs Helenius
Murray vs Sturm
Macklin vs Sturm
Afolabi vs Huck
Rhodes vs Alvarez
Barker vs Martinez
Hatton vs Alvarez
Magee vs Bute
Munroe vs Nishioka
Murray vs Rios

Some of the above where outright robbed, some fought much bigger men on fight night (Murray/Hatton), some got there world title shots 3 to 4 fights before they were ready & some where given mission impossible fights against elite world champions in the champions home town.

Seriously what is going on, the reason we aren’t getting any luck is because the management teams of these fighters are accepting fights in which the deck is massively stacked against our boys before we even start.

it's good that our boys are for the most making bold challenges for world titles vs world class opposition. i've enjoyed this year of UK boxing perhaps more than any others, because the fights have been so consistently good and competitive.

King Geedorah wrote:

twenty six wrote:
That tosser was personally responsible for stopping Jamie's march to the title.
In fact had he faced the tosser when slated to do so, there's an argument to say Jamie may have got his World title shot.

Yeah, I've got a theory that guys like Jamie & Rhodes spend so much energy on the British/EBU route that they're knackered before the get to world level. I reckon Moore & Rhodes would have held their own at the top had they kicked on right after Macklin and Moore fights respectively instead of having to wait longer.

moore in particular had far too much time on the UK scene.

Autobarn wrote:

King Geedorah wrote:

twenty six wrote:
That tosser was personally responsible for stopping Jamie's march to the title.
In fact had he faced the tosser when slated to do so, there's an argument to say Jamie may have got his World title shot.

Yeah, I've got a theory that guys like Jamie & Rhodes spend so much energy on the British/EBU route that they're knackered before the get to world level. I reckon Moore & Rhodes would have held their own at the top had they kicked on right after Macklin and Moore fights respectively instead of having to wait longer.

moore in particular had far too much time on the UK scene.

Jamie Moore was handled really badly, in my opinion, there was about 3 years when he was at his peak where he should have been fighting close to world level, but for whatever reason wasn't.

Also, he is a great talker with the sort of personality that made people want to get behind him. He should have been all over the media, he has way more charisma that Ricky Hatton.

yes, i agree with that. i think at the time, around 2006, sky wanted to put on terrific domestic fights and moore ended up being in a few too many - jones 3, macklin, the 2 with ultra-awkward, no-reward facey. it did seem there was a chance, when moore outclassed lujan, an international opponent. then the vince vuma fight, for some internatonal title which would have moved him up the WBC rankings, never went ahead. you'd have thought the gears were in motion but he was kept in the small-hall thrillers vs fellow-brits, which eventually seemed to have done him in (rhodes). ironically even the world title elim was a domestic fight, promoted along the war of the roses rivalry rather than the world title implications.

i'm glad that at least macklin (whom moore laid out for several minutes in that tear up) and gym mate martin murray got a chance to show they could perform on the world stage. i think moore would have done just as well, if not better given the chance.

Who remembers Howard Winstone & Dave Charnley who both fought for the world title in return fights here in the UK against Vincente Saldivar & Joe Brown and still lost but by very close verdicts

It doesn't help that Britain is now getting a reputation for god awful scorecards and alarmingly quick stoppages (Anyone see the one on Wednesday with Billy Joe Saunders? WTF)