BoxRec

dbf wrote:

observer1 wrote:I mentioned this in the other thread, i think Froch is almost a Bully-esque boxer in the ring. As a result, he will struggle against Slick and quick boxers. Or against Boxers will wont fold under pressure.

Taylor got away with it for most of the bout, but Froch caught up with him in the end.
Dirrel gave Froch problems, but ultimately lost a close desicion.
Kessler simply wouldn't fold, and gave whatever he took.

Ward had pretty much all the tool the above 3 had, and it showed. Froch was clueless.

Can't fault his coach, at the end of the day Froch's biggest problem is his crap defense, and he has said that himself.

But surely the role of the coach is to use training to address problems such as having a poor defense?

That's true, bt i've rarely seen a coach completely revamp a boxers' style. A Coach just prepares the fighter for the next fight, and tunes his technique and cover any flaws.

To Change Froch's entire stance and style in this stage of his career would be next to impossible. As far as i know many of his team have commented on Frochs stubbornness in not changing his [lack of] defence. Im sure someone here can shed some light into the issue.

Jim Watts said right during the bout, that Frochs style would struggle against a speed merchant like Ward.

tend to agree Ward will always beat Froch he just has the style to always have his number....I just think on his absolute sharpest day Froch could make it close tho but still lose....

As for whether or not he can revamp his style......well dennis andries was around frochs age and had far more mileage on the clock when he totally revamped his style by going to the states.....I think Carl can do it.....he has so much natural talent....but the key thing is...he has relied so much on his reflexes can he keep them where they have been if not than he is going to have to change this arm down style or retire if he wishes to fight at the absolute highest level which is where he is at now.......absolutely no shame in froch being 2nd or 3rd best in what has been boxings hottest division the last 2 years. Froch is a legend in british boxing no matter what he does.

Yeah, he looked tired against Ward, he has Gone 12 rounds In his last 7 fights, all against top 10 contenders, which is possibly a bit too much.

He is 34 now, i wonder if he shouldn't move up to 175 where his lack of speed wont be as much of an issue?

observer1 wrote:

dbf wrote:

observer1 wrote:I mentioned this in the other thread, i think Froch is almost a Bully-esque boxer in the ring. As a result, he will struggle against Slick and quick boxers. Or against Boxers will wont fold under pressure.

Taylor got away with it for most of the bout, but Froch caught up with him in the end.
Dirrel gave Froch problems, but ultimately lost a close desicion.
Kessler simply wouldn't fold, and gave whatever he took.

Ward had pretty much all the tool the above 3 had, and it showed. Froch was clueless.

Can't fault his coach, at the end of the day Froch's biggest problem is his crap defense, and he has said that himself.

But surely the role of the coach is to use training to address problems such as having a poor defense?

That's true, bt i've rarely seen a coach completely revamp a boxers' style. A Coach just prepares the fighter for the next fight, and tunes his technique and cover any flaws.

To Change Froch's entire stance and style in this stage of his career would be next to impossible. As far as i know many of his team have commented on Frochs stubbornness in not changing his [lack of] defence. Im sure someone here can shed some light into the issue.

Jim Watts said right during the bout, that Frochs style would struggle against a speed merchant like Ward.

You're right its hard to revamp someones style. However over the course of a career you would hope that certain aspects of a fighters skills are fine tuned and perfected. Fair enough he likes to have a lazy defence but he should have been working on things to make up for this.

I'm not being harsh but I fail to see the real improvements over the length of his career. Conditioning wise, he is a beast, mentally he is one of the strongest out there. I bet he is a nightmare to box beacuse he's such a tough man, if the fight was 15 rounds he may have got to Ward, no doubt.

But, he had the amateur pedigree (you can't win a world bronze without having excellent boxing skills) yet they diminshed in favour of this 'warrior' mentality. Maybe it is because he is stubborn, maybe he's almost too close to McCracken. I don't know.

I'm a massive fan though - I can't think of any other british fighter who has fought the quality, back to back since he first won the title. Its beyond admirable its down right amazing. His attitude and professionalism should be an inspiration to young boxers. The man is a british ring legend.

Food for thought: watch just before the ref calls them together for instructions. McCracken tells him to "switch on"

observer1 wrote:

dbf wrote:

observer1 wrote:I mentioned this in the other thread, i think Froch is almost a Bully-esque boxer in the ring. As a result, he will struggle against Slick and quick boxers. Or against Boxers will wont fold under pressure.

Taylor got away with it for most of the bout, but Froch caught up with him in the end.
Dirrel gave Froch problems, but ultimately lost a close desicion.
Kessler simply wouldn't fold, and gave whatever he took.

Ward had pretty much all the tool the above 3 had, and it showed. Froch was clueless.

Can't fault his coach, at the end of the day Froch's biggest problem is his crap defense, and he has said that himself.

But surely the role of the coach is to use training to address problems such as having a poor defense?

That's true, bt i've rarely seen a coach completely revamp a boxers' style. A Coach just prepares the fighter for the next fight, and tunes his technique and cover any flaws.

To Change Froch's entire stance and style in this stage of his career would be next to impossible. As far as i know many of his team have commented on Frochs stubbornness in not changing his [lack of] defence. Im sure someone here can shed some light into the issue.

Jim Watts said right during the bout, that Frochs style would struggle against a speed merchant like Ward.

I interviewed Froch several years back, and when I asked him about his low left hand, he said "I've got me chin tucked into me shoulder, and that's how I've always fought, all the way through the amateurs, it's my style, it's how I fight, I'm not changing it."

The thing is the chin being tucked in, only makes it harder to land the right hook, it offers no defence against the left, and it also restricts mobility. Better to have the glove by the chin than the chin tucked into the shoulder.

Ward looked to me like he could have handled it if it was 15 rounds. It was Carl who was in danger of getting busted up, not Ward.

mrbassie wrote:Food for thought: watch just before the ref calls them together for instructions. McCracken tells him to "switch on"

exactly i heard that too. and to quote steve nunce in todays independant " there were some odd moments in frochs corner between rounds and as early as rounds 5 and 6 it seemed that mcracken was having to work really hard to make froch focus "are you listening ?" mcracken kept asking".

Bunce also mentions "there is the possibility that frochs extreme schedule has taken a far more debillitating toll than anyone could have imagined. Froch has been in six cinsecutive q2 rounders since the tournament started.The Super Six has left a trail of broken fighters since it started and Froch has had 4 of his 5 fights on the road."

I think all of the above says it all, and I cant agree with those who say Froch turned up as the same man he had been in the other super six fights and the taylor fight.......but i do agree ward has his number more or less, i just think on his "usual day" it would have been far far closer and competitive....im not saying it would have been "dave mcauley-fidel bassa close but no cigar" close but closer for sure.

PS James McDonnell re the left arm down and frochs chin tucked in....even that technique he seemed to be more square on than usual, plus of course his reflexes were just not there..... only time will tell if this was an off night or the start of a decline.

Age, hard bouts 1 after the other, focus, great opponent and also does he not struggle to make weight?? Alot of the time things like overtraining, struggling to make weight etc go un noticed

matko wrote:Age, hard bouts 1 after the other, focus, great opponent and also does he not struggle to make weight?? Alot of the time things like overtraining, struggling to make weight etc go un noticed

I believe he makes the weight with very little problem at all.

I don't believe he ha any trouble making weight at all.

mugabi wrote:i have said it, but few have backed what i said....the real froch didnt turn up, he wasnt as determined or hungry as he usually is, he didnt put it on the line like he has so many time, his reflexes were totally off, he flinched when he got hit a few times which was shocking......now i see even ward was suprised how easily he beat froch and how sluggish he was.

http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/story/126851.html

I always felt that Froch's lack of speed would play into Ward's hands, but what I didn't envisage was Ward bossing Froch in the clinches & forcing the fight.

Always thought he may of stuggled seems like a big build and gets harder as get older maybe Ward is better than we realised he aint lost since he was 12 that some feat

Ward is a formidable world champion absolutely top class.
But he will never be a star until he drops that stupid weird downright sinister gimmick, grows a personality and starts thinking about entertaining the fans as well as winning.

mugabi wrote:Ward is a formidable world champion absolutely top class.
But he will never be a star until he drops that stupid weird downright sinister gimmick, grows a personality and starts thinking about entertaining the fans as well as winning.

What sinister gimmick is that?

I thought he was just the better boxer by far last weekend and generous in victory. Carl has found his level, and its a very high one.

The Super Six was a brilliant idea that should be trialled in other weight classes

IF Froch loses his next fight, which is a real possibility given the big names which are being banded about, where does he go from there?

revporl wrote:

mugabi wrote:Ward is a formidable world champion absolutely top class.
But he will never be a star until he drops that stupid weird downright sinister gimmick, grows a personality and starts thinking about entertaining the fans as well as winning.

What sinister gimmick is that?

I thought he was just the better boxer by far last weekend and generous in victory. Carl has found his level, and its a very high one.

The Super Six was a brilliant idea that should be trialled in other weight classes

What sinister gimmick???....the SOG gimmick? do you think a gimmick could be more sinister.....it offends christians and to the rest of us its sinister.....he isnt quite as humble as he makes out....listen to his post fight interview referring to the things he does as "supernatural" and himself as "supernatural"....wards personality is that of a weird dork
Even Mayweather jnr for all his egoism has never referred to himself as supernatural or SOG..

mugabi wrote:i have said it, but few have backed what i said....the real froch didnt turn up, he wasnt as determined or hungry as he usually is, he didnt put it on the line like he has so many time, his reflexes were totally off, he flinched when he got hit a few times which was shocking......now i see even ward was suprised how easily he beat froch and how sluggish he was.

http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/story/126851.html

Didnt i tell some people even at FRochs lowest ebb that the real Froch didnt fight Ward?? We see the real and usual Froch destroy Bute and this Froch would destrpy ward too. Eat your words those who got it wrong

mugabi wrote:Didnt i tell some people even at FRochs lowest ebb that the real Froch didnt fight Ward?? We see the real and usual Froch destroy Bute and this Froch would destrpy ward too. Eat your words those who got it wrong

I basically agreed with you, so I win as well.

mugabi wrote:

mugabi wrote:i have said it, but few have backed what i said....the real froch didnt turn up, he wasnt as determined or hungry as he usually is, he didnt put it on the line like he has so many time, his reflexes were totally off, he flinched when he got hit a few times which was shocking......now i see even ward was suprised how easily he beat froch and how sluggish he was.

http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/story/126851.html

Didnt i tell some people even at FRochs lowest ebb that the real Froch didnt fight Ward?? We see the real and usual Froch destroy Bute and this Froch would destrpy ward too. Eat your words those who got it wrong

Real Froch?

I think it was because of Ward that the real Froch didn't turn up.

He wasn't a sitting duck like Bute was.

mugabi wrote:i have said it, but few have backed what i said....the real froch didnt turn up, he wasnt as determined or hungry as he usually is, he didnt put it on the line like he has so many time, his reflexes were totally off, he flinched when he got hit a few times which was shocking......now i see even ward was suprised how easily he beat froch and how sluggish he was.

http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/story/126851.html

Ridiculous post...so whenever he loses or looks limited the real Froch didn't turn up, Eric Crumble should use that excuse and say the real Eric crumble has never turned up 31 times.

All praise for last night aside the simple fact is that Froch is very effective against certain styles of boxing but has shown he's very limited against others especially fast, slick, crafty styles like Ward, Dirrell and to a lesser extent Taylor who should have beaten Carl if he hadn't gassed late in fight like he usually does.

exittored wrote:

mugabi wrote:i have said it, but few have backed what i said....the real froch didnt turn up, he wasnt as determined or hungry as he usually is, he didnt put it on the line like he has so many time, his reflexes were totally off, he flinched when he got hit a few times which was shocking......now i see even ward was suprised how easily he beat froch and how sluggish he was.

http://www.espn.co.uk/boxing/sport/story/126851.html

Ridiculous post...so whenever he loses or looks limited the real Froch didn't turn up, Eric Crumble should use that excuse and say the real Eric crumble has never turned up 31 times.

All praise for last night aside the simple fact is that Froch is very effective against certain styles of boxing but has shown he's very limited against others especially fast, slick, crafty styles like Ward, Dirrell and to a lesser extent Taylor who should have beaten Carl if he hadn't gassed late in fight like he usually does.

I think this a fair assessment.

I'm a huge Froch fan, but I always worry when he fights a top class slick boxer type due to his lack of speed.

Carl has amazing strength, a titanium chin & the determination of a killer cyborg from the year 2029, but he will always lose to slickster as good as Andre Ward IMO.

Still think it would be a lot closer in Nottingham, I know ward wont travel just yet but he might do if froch beats Kessler.

jessi wrote:Still think it would be a lot closer in Nottingham, I know ward wont travel just yet but he might do if froch beats Kessler.

Good point.

I used to dismiss the location argument, but I've now come round to thinking that fighting abroad is a big factor with some fighters; hence their reluctance to travel.

If team Froch can make it lucrative enough, they might be able to tempt Andre over to the UK.

Syntax Error wrote:

jessi wrote:Still think it would be a lot closer in Nottingham, I know ward wont travel just yet but he might do if froch beats Kessler.

Good point.

I used to dismiss the location argument, but I've now come round to thinking that fighting abroad is a big factor with some fighters; hence their reluctance to travel.

If team Froch can make it lucrative enough, they might be able to tempt Andre over to the UK.

It may play a small factor but you do realise Ward would have been just as much out of his comfort zone fighting in New Jersey then Froch was fighting there especially as Andre had never fought at the Boardwalk whilst Carl had against Glenn Johnson.