BoxRec

ctill wrote:Sonny Liston had a 21 year old daughter when he won the title...Yet he was 'supposed' to be 32. How old do you think he really was?

Sonny Liston had a daughter allrght,her name was Eleanor aka"Choo-Choo",
but she wasnt that old.
check this source out
Jet magaine October-3-1963

http://books.google.com/books?id=gcEDAA ... pg=PA57&dq

Brutu wrote:

ctill wrote:Sonny Liston had a 21 year old daughter when he won the title...Yet he was 'supposed' to be 32. How old do you think he really was?

Sonny Liston had a daughter allrght,her name was Eleanor aka"Choo-Choo",
but she wasnt that old.
check this source out
Jet magaine October-3-1963

http://books.google.com/books?id=gcEDAA ... pg=PA57&dq

Interesting find.

Is it likely that the 12 has been changed by the editor, assuming that 21 was a typo? or is there serious doubt about the existence of the 21 year old daughter, who may have only been 12?

here is a really rare photograph of Eleanor Liston.
(Arletha was Geraldine's daughter from a previous marriage)
from JET March 1964.

http://books.google.com/books?id=68EDAA ... pg=PA55&dq

Does this all mean that Geraldine was several years older than Liston himself, or did she just get caught young?

SolomonDeedes wrote:Does this all mean that Geraldine was several years older than Liston himself, or did she just get caught young?

A lot of girls in my neighbourhood had children before they were 18. Would it be any different in the USA?

raylawpc wrote:

Giancarlo wrote:Brute made up the 1934 census?

I doubt that; I think he probably cited the wrong source. There was certainly no 1934 federal census and, according to my genealogy handbook, the last state census in Arkansas was 1911.

I remember he was counted in the following census. Australia holds a population census every five years, somehow I thought the USA would have them more frequently.

Brute wrote:

raylawpc wrote:

Giancarlo wrote:Brute made up the 1934 census?

I doubt that; I think he probably cited the wrong source. There was certainly no 1934 federal census and, according to my genealogy handbook, the last state census in Arkansas was 1911.

I remember he was counted in the following census. Australia holds a population census every five years, somehow I thought the USA would have them more frequently.

Nope. U. S. Constitution, Art. 1, Sec. 2: "The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct."

Brute wrote:

SolomonDeedes wrote:Does this all mean that Geraldine was several years older than Liston himself, or did she just get caught young?

A lot of girls in my neighbourhood had children before they were 18. Would it be any different in the USA?

Well, if she was the same age as Sonny and her daughter was 17 in 1964, that makes her 14 when she was born.

Which is possible. Not saying it didn't happen, it's just my thirst for knowledge.

Brutu wrote: ↑12 Jan 2012, 04:16 here is a really rare photograph of Eleanor Liston.
(Arletha was Geraldine's daughter from a previous marriage)
from JET March 1964.

http://books.google.com/books?id=68EDAA ... pg=PA55&dq

Sonny Liston's daughter,
whatever became of her after 1964 ?

Cutman Scabbers wrote: ↑30 Dec 2011, 22:53

ctill wrote:Sonny Liston had a 21 year old daughter when he won the title...Yet he was 'supposed' to be 32. How old do you think he really was?

He certainly looks older than 32.

So does LeBron James.

I always thought this was silly, if you really stop and think about it.
Imagine that you are famous person. How are you going to get away with claiming that you are several years younger than you really are? People grew up with you. People went to school with you. They are going to know within a year or two at most how old you are. Those people would have been coming out of the woodwork claiming you were was much older.

Boilermaker wrote: ↑11 Jan 2012, 17:24

Brutu wrote:

ctill wrote:Sonny Liston had a 21 year old daughter when he won the title...Yet he was 'supposed' to be 32. How old do you think he really was?

Sonny Liston had a daughter allrght,her name was Eleanor aka"Choo-Choo",
but she wasnt that old.
check this source out
Jet magaine October-3-1963

http://books.google.com/books?id=gcEDAA ... pg=PA57&dq

Interesting find.

Is it likely that the 12 has been changed by the editor, assuming that 21 was a typo? or is there serious doubt about the existence of the 21 year old daughter, who may have only been 12?

I know that the above posts were from quite a few years back, but it seems that Sonny had two daughters.

One was a step-daughter. The daughter of his wife Geraldine. Her name was Arletha and she was probably the one who the poster referred to as 21 during the time Liston was preparing for the first Clay fight. She was actually 19 but it doesn't matter since Liston didn't father her.

Wife Geraldine, by the way, was quite a few years older than Sonny.

There seems to be controversy over young Eleanor Liston, who was 12 years old in early 1964.

Some say she is the daughter of Sonny and Geraldine. Other say that Liston fathered numerous children during his marriage, but none with Geraldine.

If so, then you have to wonder how Eleanor came to live with them. The Liston's also had an adopted son.

Geraldine died in Las Vegas in 2005.

just thot bump this up again.

In the documentary "Sonny Liston: Mysterious Life and Death of a Champion" there was some evidence from the police, that Liston had been born in the late 20s, circa 1928. It was also pointed there, that the date of May 8, 1932 had been come up with by Liston's managment just to fill completely files related to his boxing career.

Badhusker wrote: ↑31 Dec 2011, 09:13 Yes, Liston must have been almost 50 or so for C. Clay to beat him.....or it was a fixed fight ..... Clay/Ali would have beaten Liston no matter what their ages were.

Not really... Nobody fixed any fight between Ali and Liston.

Liston lost the first fight because of a debilitating shoulder and biceps injury that is well documented.... The fight was dead even on the cards when he was forced to give up his effort....

Liston lost the rematch because he was robbed blind... Ali could easily have been DQ'd for defying the referee's orders to go to a neutral corner for the entire count... Walcott never counted over Liston because he was busy trying to get Ali to a neutral corner until Liston got up with Ali STILL NOT in a neutral corner.... No other Heavyweight Champion in Queensberry History ever got away with defying the Neutral Corner Rule for the full count since it went into effect nearly 100 years ago.

According to the Neutral Corner Rule the count SHOULD have been suspended.... It WASN'T... The error wasn't corrected by the Maine Athletic Comission... Sonny Liston got yet another screw job from Boxing -- to compound having to wait years for Patterson to give him a Title Shot -- after fighting a lot of white challengers Liston would have mopped the floor with.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑18 Feb 2018, 16:47 I always thought this was silly, if you really stop and think about it.

Imagine that you are famous person. How are you going to get away with claiming that you are several years younger than you really are? People grew up with you. People went to school with you. They are going to know within a year or two at most how old you are. Those people would have been coming out of the woodwork claiming you were was much older.

A lot of celebrities claim they're younger than they are... Liston hardly went to school... He spent his youth working on a farm or running with street gangs doing break-ins, burglaries, hot-wiring cars to steal them, stripping cars at 3AM, armed robberies, strong arm robberies, stick ups, and muggings. He had a long rap sheet. He was another Bernard Hopkins,

This curious bit of information is from THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITTANICA entry for
Sonny Liston
b. 8. May.1917 ?
d. on or after 28.December.1970
"There is evidence that he began his ring carer as early as 1934, at age 17, under the name of Charles ("Sailor") Liston.

( source SONNY BOY by Rob Steen page 226)

Caractacus wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 13:36 This curious bit of information is from THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITTANICA entry for
Sonny Liston
b. 8. May.1917 ?
d. on or after 28.December.1970
"There is evidence that he began his ring carer as early as 1934, at age 17, under the name of Charles ("Sailor") Liston.

( source SONNY BOY by Rob Steen page 226)

That's quite a story unless you are being facetious.

It's believable.... It would explain a lot of things... Liston certainly looked 52-years-old when he died... That's the age Bernard Hopkins was for his last fight BTW.... Only Bernard looked a little younger than Sonny.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 13:41

Caractacus wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 13:36 This curious bit of information is from THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITTANICA entry for
Sonny Liston
b. 8. May.1917 ?
d. on or after 28.December.1970
"There is evidence that he began his ring carer as early as 1934, at age 17, under the name of Charles ("Sailor") Liston.

( source SONNY BOY by Rob Steen page 226)

That's quite a story unless you are being facetious.

Thats what it reads in Rob Steen's book SONNY BOY,(p. 226)
(which was released in paperback a few years ago under the title PHANTOM PUNCH)
It did not mention what the Encycopaedia Brittanica's source was tho unfortanetly.
anyone know about this mysterious Charles "Sailor" Liston ?

Kalan wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 15:15 It's believable.... It would explain a lot of things... Liston certainly looked 52-years-old when he died... That's the age Bernard Hopkins was for his last fight BTW.... Only Bernard looked a little younger than Sonny.

People tended to age faster back in the day for whatever reason. Perhaps it was just the way they dressed, and everything but a lot of the time you can look at movies from say the 1940's or 1950's (just per example)

And people that were 30 then could pass for 50 or 55 now.

Ike Turner was born and raised in Clarksdale Mississippi. How old do you think he is here in 1959 ?
( here is a clue,he was born there in November 1931)

Caractacus wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 17:52

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 13:41

Caractacus wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 13:36 This curious bit of information is from THE ENCYCLOPAEDIA BRITTANICA entry for
Sonny Liston
b. 8. May.1917 ?
d. on or after 28.December.1970
"There is evidence that he began his ring carer as early as 1934, at age 17, under the name of Charles ("Sailor") Liston.

( source SONNY BOY by Rob Steen page 226)

That's quite a story unless you are being facetious.

Thats what it reads in Rob Steen's book SONNY BOY,(p. 226)
(which was released in paperback a few years ago under the title PHANTOM PUNCH)
It did not mention what the Encycopaedia Brittanica's source was tho unfortanetly.
anyone know about this mysterious Charles "Sailor" Liston ?

Wow! the Liston story is so full if cracks and questions. More secret than who killed JFK!!

And what is the established reason that Liston would lie about his age by as much as 15 years?

It's one thing if you're just 16 or 17 and want to try and obtain a professional license that are only granted to 18 and older fighters.

But what would be Liston's point in fighting under a semi-alias and later shaving well over a decade from his true age?

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 17:55

Kalan wrote: ↑11 May 2018, 15:15 It's believable.... It would explain a lot of things... Liston certainly looked 52-years-old when he died... That's the age Bernard Hopkins was for his last fight BTW.... Only Bernard looked a little younger than Sonny.

People tended to age faster back in the day for whatever reason. Perhaps it was just the way they dressed, and everything but a lot of the time you can look at movies from say the 1940's or 1950's (just per example)

And people that were 30 then could pass for 50 or 55 now.

People didn't dress vastly different in those days... T-shirts and jeans were common for casual.... Suits and ties were common for dressing up... Men's hair was generally longer, but Sonny always wore his very short which is common today... More people smoked in those days and that ages you... Liston rarely smoked but he did drink - which ages you...

A tough childhood, the streets, and incarceration in prison can age you... Liston had a long rap sheet before Boxing gave him the opportunity to make an honest living... I remember nobody believed Liston's age... Everyone said he looked 40 when he fought Patterson... He looked like Tim Witherspoon with about a million miles on him...

Liston was a talented Heavyweight for certain... Too bad he was so unlucky as to get badly injured in the first Clay fight... He fought only 3 round in the previous 3 years, and that had a lot to do with it... Then he was screwed over royally in the rematch... The rematch was postponed a couple of times and didn't take place for well over a year... There was no reason in the world to stop the rematch... It should have continued.. The Maine Athletic Commission did nothing to correct the errors committed by Nat Fleischer, Joe Walcott, the timekeeper, and the commissioners present at the fight...

Liston broke no rules himself - but he was an ex-con. and an easy to blame fall guy.