Prime vs Prime, Tomasz Adamek vs Jack Dempsey

[dempseyfire]

Dempsey would beat the sh^t out of both Adamek and Toney. Confused by the shoulder roll? THat's funny considering Dempsey rolled his own shoulder to block shots . .

The likes of Billy Miske, Battling Levisnky, and Tommy Gibbons were far more skilled than Adamek ever dreamt of being, and they were also more skilled than "Fridge Lights On" Toney. Dempsey was the most skilled and vicious in-fighter in HW history . . I would LOVE to see Toney try his lay on the ropes strategy vs Dempsey, it would be almost too cruel to watch.

[Alan Partridge]

Beau,

What is your take on Tunney against a younger Dempsey? Ive always favoured Dempsey there, though not by a lot.

Detroit,

I would bank on Vitali falling to Dempsey --- but be aware I am a huge detractor of Vitali's (whom Ive often compared to Willard), hes a guy I just find immensely over-rated. Hard to land your jab on a much faster rival if timing isnt your strong suite.

I can't see Gene Tunney beating a prime tigerish Jack Dempsey. Highly unlikely IMO. Dempsey's main asset was his great quickness and speed. When he fought Gene Tunney in 1926 after a THREE YEAR layoff,he was a plodding shell of his prime. No one can take a 3 year layoff and without a tune-up bout, beat a Gene Tunney at his peak. But in the second bout ,I still think that were it not for the
17 second or so "long count",Dempsey would have stopped Tunney in the 7th round...
Vitali IMO was no better than a younger Jess Willard. I can't see Klitschko taking a beating from Jack Johnson for 25 rounds, biding his time for the ko of Johnson in the 26th rd. I might get in trouble, but I feel that Primo Carnera would have outhustled the robotic Vitali in 15 rounds. Primo Carnera had more stamina than Vitali I believe...

You need to put the crack pipe down!!

Dempsey easily beats Adamek inside 4 rounds.

He also beats Toney as he will be killing that body.

[loaded_gloves]

Dempsey would vaoprise any Klitschko. Just a big strong lump for him to land full impact on with his horrific power. Or are 'modern' jaw bones suddenly more thicker and durable and built up with protein shakes making them superior to Jess Willard's?

[Ezzard]

Detroit

You have my total respect, mate. It’s rare for someone to post something and have the confidence and strength of character to admit they were wrong or may not know the full picture.

That’s one up you’ve got on 98% of the people who post here.

[loaded_gloves]

Ezzard

I'm impressed you can find a positive spin to put on a poster who disrespects and mocks one of the greatest, most dangerous, ballsiest fighting hard men to ever compete in boxing, across three different threads on Boxrec, only to then admit he doesn't know much about him and needs to do some more research.

You are a better man than me, because these trolls drive me crazy.

[Goodnight, Irene]

I can assure anyone Detroit is no troll.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ezzard

I'm impressed you can find a positive spin to put on a poster who disrespects and mocks one of the greatest, most dangerous, ballsiest fighting hard men to ever compete in boxing, across three different threads on Boxrec, only to then admit he doesn't know much about him and needs to do some more research.

You are a better man than me, because these trolls drive me crazy.

Now I'm a troll? I like you man, you make me laugh. You should stop taking this shit so serious.

I said everything was based off of what I saw, I didn't make any of that up. I never said I was completely wrong, just that there is obviously more opinions that differ from mine than agree, so maybe I should go back to the drawing board. Can a man not be wrong in his lifetime without bing a "troll?" The only one trolling is you, who seems to be obsessed with me all of the sudden. I am quite studly though. 8)

Don't sweat it, Dempsey is a touchy subject in this forum. And Joe frazier would still have beaten him like a heavy bag.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Dempsey eats Frazier alive.

Frazier's sluggish start makes him a sitting duck for the much more explosive Dempsey's sledgehammer blows. That bout doesnt reach the fifth round.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He wouldn't be sluggish for long, a couple of Dempsey's best right hands would get him smokin early and from there it's nothing but a beating for the white guy.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Dempsey was a left hooker (although he clearly could hurt you from the right side), but I couldnt pick a better target for Dempsey among the greats than Frazier, personally.

A guy whos noticeably slow to get outta the blocks, who fights back (instead of spoiling or backing away) when hurt, and whos going to come directly at him!? Its absolutely perfect for Dempsey --- he couldnt ask for anything more.

Frazier thought he had a hard settle in the early going with Quarry, he aint seen NOTHING until he gets in there with Dempsey.

Frazier gets mauled.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Frazier is Dempsey's worst nightmare, impervious to his power and pushing him back like a rag doll while he slams brutal hooks into Jack's tiny little body.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Dempsey was a left hooker (although he clearly could hurt you from the right side), but I couldnt pick a better target for Dempsey among the greats than Frazier, personally.

A guy whos noticeably slow to get outta the blocks, who fights back (instead of spoiling or backing away) when hurt, and whos going to come directly at him!? Its absolutely perfect for Dempsey --- he couldnt ask for anything more.

Frazier thought he had a hard settle in the early going with Quarry, he aint seen NOTHING until he gets in there with Dempsey.

Frazier gets mauled.

An interesting take on that match-up. Could have very well happened.

On the other side I can see where SOTD is coming from. If Frazier can weather the early onslaught then I believe he'll get into that "smokin' rhythm" and be too much for Dempsey (but, you can never count the power of Dempsey out of a fight).

I figured I'd take the heat off of Det. But I firmly would take Frazier to beat Dempsey 10 times out of 10. Stick Dempsey in MSG in place of Ali and he has no chance in the world.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Down the stretch, it would be an entertaining fight in which I would favour Frazier (Dempsey had power, grit, and conditioning, so he'd be competitive, but Frazier was on another level in this regard), but you have to believe Frazier can absorb Dempsey's early assault (because its indisputable Dempsey will be on top early, and Frazier isnt going to avoid his punches), and I very, very thoroughly believe Frazier could not.

Same reason I (reluctantly) like Tyson over Frazier --- just a guy who starts a hundred times quicker and who hits too damn hard for Frazier to shake off.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Down the stretch, it would be an entertaining fight in which I would favour Frazier (Dempsey had power, grit, and conditioning, so he'd be competitive, but Frazier was on another level in this regard), but you have to believe Frazier can absorb Dempsey's early assault (because its indisputable Dempsey will be on top early, and Frazier isnt going to avoid his punches), and I very, very thoroughly believe Frazier could not.

Same reason I (reluctantly) like Tyson over Frazier --- just a guy who starts a hundred times quicker and who hits tommm damn hard for Frazier to shake off.

I think Frazier can handle all but one mans assault. The first Foreman fight showed me all I need to know, for me that was a testament to his iron chin. Bobbing and weaving directly into those sledgehammers would have killed another man.

Joe would eat tyson alive too.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Frazier is Dempsey's worst nightmare,impervious to his power and pushing him back like a rag doll while he slams brutal hooks into Jack's tiny little body.

Ridiculous. Not even remotely defensible. The guy was visibly rocked by Quarry and Ali, for God's sake.

Of course, if I thought him impervious to Dempsey's power, Id pick Frazier without hesitation, too. But then, I may as well argue the sky is red.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Frazier is Dempsey's worst nightmare,impervious to his power and pushing him back like a rag doll while he slams brutal hooks into Jack's tiny little body.

Ridiculous. Not even remotely defensible. The guy was visibly rocked by Quarry and Ali, for God's sake.

Of course, if I thought him impervious to Dempsey's power, Id pick Frazier without hesitation, too. But then, I may as well argue the sky is red.

He would laugh at Dempsey's best punch and push him back.

[loaded_gloves]

The Frazier of the Fight of the Century is one of the most awesome heavyweight champions I have ever seen. I would favour him to take out Jack Denpsey and most other men on that night.

Joe sure gets a bad rap for the Foreman fight, given he was a waning force and he was up against one of boxing's all time human wrecking machines. Outside Foreman, where is the crime sheet on Joe's beard?!

[Goodnight, Irene]

I know Im laughing

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ridiculous. Not even remotely defensible. The guy was visibly rocked by Quarry and Ali, for God's sake.

Of course, if I thought him impervious to Dempsey's power, Id pick Frazier without hesitation, too. But then, I may as well argue the sky is red.

He would laugh at Dempsey's best punch and push him back.

Haha, now let's not get carried away.

Like I said, sick of reading Det get slaughtered so I figured I'd take the heat from Dempsey fans for a bit. Jack could certainly hurt him, I don't think he could finish him and I feel Frazier would inevitably begin to push Dempsey backwards around the 4th or 5th round and Jack wasn't slick enough to win that way.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I can't believe DempseyFans bat signal hasn't gone off yet.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Down the stretch, it would be an entertaining fight in which I would favour Frazier (Dempsey had power, grit, and conditioning, so he'd be competitive, but Frazier was on another level in this regard), but you have to believe Frazier can absorb Dempsey's early assault (because its indisputable Dempsey will be on top early, and Frazier isnt going to avoid his punches), and I very, very thoroughly believe Frazier could not.

Same reason I (reluctantly) like Tyson over Frazier --- just a guy who starts a hundred times quicker and who hits tommm damn hard for Frazier to shake off.

I think Frazier can handle all but one mans assault. The first Foreman fight showed me all I need to know, for me that was a testament to his iron chin. Bobbing and weaving directly into those sledgehammers would have killed another man.

Joe would eat tyson alive too.

A great chin keeps you on your feet. Frazier getting up proved his heart, not his whiskers.

Its common for people to get carried away with FOTC, because of the bouts magnitude and the opponent, but 71 Frazier still gets run over like a truck by Foreman. Hes a poor bet against any of the all-time greats who started fast, had all-time power, and were expert finishers.

Foreman. Liston. Tyson. DEMPSEY.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Down the stretch, it would be an entertaining fight in which I would favour Frazier (Dempsey had power, grit, and conditioning, so he'd be competitive, but Frazier was on another level in this regard), but you have to believe Frazier can absorb Dempsey's early assault (because its indisputable Dempsey will be on top early, and Frazier isnt going to avoid his punches), and I very, very thoroughly believe Frazier could not.

Same reason I (reluctantly) like Tyson over Frazier --- just a guy who starts a hundred times quicker and who hits tommm damn hard for Frazier to shake off.

Damn, I didn't realize he hit Tom Damn hard. You may be right G,I. :P

Troll

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Down the stretch, it would be an entertaining fight in which I would favour Frazier (Dempsey had power, grit, and conditioning, so he'd be competitive, but Frazier was on another level in this regard), but you have to believe Frazier can absorb Dempsey's early assault (because its indisputable Dempsey will be on top early, and Frazier isnt going to avoid his punches), and I very, very thoroughly believe Frazier could not.

Same reason I (reluctantly) like Tyson over Frazier --- just a guy who starts a hundred times quicker and who hits tommm damn hard for Frazier to shake off.

I think Frazier can handle all but one mans assault. The first Foreman fight showed me all I need to know, for me that was a testament to his iron chin. Bobbing and weaving directly into those sledgehammers would have killed another man.

Joe would eat tyson alive too.

A great chin keeps you on your feet. Frazier getting up proved his heart, not his whiskers.

Its common for people to get carried away with FOTC, because of the bouts magnitude and the opponent, but 71 Frazier still gets run over like a truck by Foreman. Hes a poor bet against any of the all-time greats who started fast, had all-time power, and were expert finishers.

Foreman. Liston. Tyson. DEMPSEY.

Totally disagree, no matter how much heart you have, taking Foreman's bombs flush on the chin lead to a KO for any other man. Well,with the probable exception of Holyfield. I like Liston over Joe too. His strengths play into the weaknesses of Dempsey and Tyson, especially Mike.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Foreman wrecks Holyfield. Absolutely brutalises him.

Holyfield is one of the most ill-disciplined, egotistical boxers to have ever drawn breath (that says a whole lot), and hed be DYING to prove he could outslug Foreman (as he was at pains to make a point of in their actual bout).

Holyfield would be humbled by the young Foreman. SEVERELY.

[Goodnight, Irene]

Foreman wrecks Holyfield. Absolutely brutalises him.

Holyfield is one of the most ill-disciplined, egotistical boxers to have ever drawn breath (that says a whole lot), and hed be DYING to prove he could outslug Foreman (as he was at pains to make a point of in their actual bout).

Holyfield would be humbled by the young Foreman. SEVERELY.

Yeah, I kind of see this too. I believe Holyfield had the physical tools to win it, but, as you said would probably get too into his warrior spirit and look to trade and then (IMO) he would meet his demise shortly after that

Holyfield does have the tools and versatility, but he'd blow it 100 times outta 100. Hes a blockhead who just could not resist a fire-fight against someone with Foreman's reputation.

I remember Manny Steward remarking about how people think Holyfield is this humble guy, but he has an insatiable need, "to be the best everything...best puncher, best boxer, best gym rat, best Evangelist, best in bed."