BoxRec

CNorkusJr wrote:Thank You Beau Jack for you rememberances and comments. Great thread.
Sad news, Artie Levine passed away this past week. I posted story and pics on my dads thread.

Yes ,I heard about Artie Levine's passing. He was a powerful punching middleweight who had Ray Robinson down for 17 seconds or more in 1946. Artie Levine dropped Robinson flat on his back and the "protective " ref, instead of starting the count, WALKED Levine to the neutral corner and walked back to the floored Robinson,and THEN started the count...That extra 7 or more seconds most likely saved Robinson from being ko'd. My mom knew Levine's Aunt....

I think I love Beaujack. Tell us EVERYTHING.

loaded_gloves wrote:I think I love Beaujack. Tell us EVERYTHING.

Is this a marriage proposal ?
P.S. Such as what lg ?

Billy Graham had some hard fought, keenly matched, encounters with Gavilan. Did you ever see Billy fight, Beau?

Ezzard wrote:Billy Graham had some hard fought, keenly matched, encounters with Gavilan. Did you ever see Billy fight, Beau?

Yep, I saw Billy Graham the first time at St Nicks Arena when my dad took me to see some main event
Well as i was waiting to give my ticket to the attendant,a young fellow with a gym bag walked through the turnstyle without his ticket. I later found out why, as the young fellow fought a 4 rd prelim. His name was Billy Graham..My dad and i saw him many times after in main events. Billy had an iron jaw.
In about 126 bouts, Graham was NEVER floored,and NEVER kod. A great boxer, lacking a big punch...

Downtown athletic Club -NYC 1980's. I took this photo of my father with these two greats.
All friends and many laughs among them that night.



I will add this bit of nostalgia: Original movie "Splendor in the Grass" 1961.
New Years Party scene.A drunk blonde actress Barbara Loden accidentlywalks into Mens room with some guy yelling "Lookout Charlie-Here she comes". Loden exits followed shortly by my father. Soon after that on outside porch you see Graham & my father then go out to parking lot with other guys. Beatty comes looking for Loden (his sister in movie)
Graham & Norkus beat up Warren Beatty in parking lot.
Listen to soundtrack,you will hear the guys saying " Stop Bill, Bill" and "Charlie,He had enough Charlie,Charlie".

Hi Beaujack: How about Sammy Angott-what do you remember about him?

Bobby A. wrote:Hi Beaujack: How about Sammy Angott-what do you remember about him?

Hi Bobby. Sammy Angott was part of the great lightweight foursome of Ike Williams, Beau Jack,Bob Montgomery,and Sammy [the clutch] Angott. Anyone of these great champions would be champions today,no doubt. I saw all 4 fighters. Angott was the first fighter to beat Featherweight Champ Willie Pep in a non-title bout in 1943. Angott was like flypaper,who fought in close,and tugged, and mauled
you, never giving his opponent punching room. Angott beat everyone except the great Ray Robinson
when they were lightweights. Made everyone look bad...

Hi beaujack

What was the first fight you remember seeing? Also, your first truly great fighter?

Ezzard wrote:Hi beaujack

What was the first fight you remember seeing? Also, your first truly great fighter?

As a little boy ,my family lived next door to a trainer of the great LH Champ John Henry Lewis.
Most every night I would go next door and spar with stablemates of JH Lewis. I never saw him in the apartment, but I would spar and eat salads with oil, with his stablemates. After I grew a little older I was hooked on boxing's great history. My dad who boxed in smokers as a youngster ,saw Benny Leonard and he saw the GREAT Harry Greb administer a tremendous beating to Gene Tunney in 1922, MSG. He would say to me that Tunney was bathed in blood in their first bout in 1922.
He would take me to the Golden Gloves Amateur bouts in NY. But my first pro main event i saw ringside was at St. Nicks Arena in NY,where a new SENSATION named Beau Jack from Georgia,
met a TOUGH older friend of Rocky Graziano, named Terry Young [Angelo DeSanza]. What a great bout that was between two pit bulls...Jack got the decision, and I later saw Beau Jack become LW champion. So my first pro main event was one of the best fights I ever saw.
As for the first great fighter I as a youngster ever saw ? Well My dad and I saw Ray Robinson
"carry" his idol, fading Henry Armstrong in MSG 1943.We in the audience sensed that Robinson never went all out against Armstrong. It was a dull bout between these two immortals.
But about 1 year later we watched a prime Ray Robinson flatten a tough Calfornian Jimmy McDaniels
with a barrage of punches so amazingly fast and powerful. Ray Robinson at WW was the greatest fighter I EVER saw, followed by Willie Pep who I saw at his peak outclass a tough lightweight boxer Allie Stolz in 1943. Willie Pep before his near fatal plane crash had to be seen to be believed. He anticipated his opponent's next move, was the second best fighter I ever saw in the 1940s "golden age" of boxing. Hope I answered your questions Ezzard ?

Hi Beaujack, What are some of your memories of Jake Lamotta?

Bobby A. wrote:Hi Beaujack, What are some of your memories of Jake Lamotta?

bobby,what can I say about the "Bronx Bull" ?LaMotta was not the greatest MW ever, but no one had a BETTER CHIN in the 160lb division. Starting out he faced the most feared black avoided fighters, such as Jimmy Reeves, Jimmy Edgar,Nate Bolden. LaMotta avoided no one who would fight him those early days. I saw him ringside but once against Vern Lester . He had to dump a fight in 1947 ,
against hard punching LH Billy Fox, so he would get a shot at the MW title. I saw that bout on early tv in 1947.
In 1949 LaMotta finally got his title shot against Marcel Cerdan in which Cerdan hurt his shoulder early in the bout and LaMotta won by a tko in the tenth rd. He held the MW title til 1951 when he was tkod by the great Ray Robinson in rd 7,losing his title. Most people don't realize that before this bout, LaMotta had to lose more than 10 pounds, a day before the fight. LaMotta was DRAINED by losing this weight ,and the Robinson camp knowing this, planned Robinson to bide his time and opening up later on in the bout. WHICH ROBINSON DID .
Summing up ,no one took a better punch than Jake LaMotta. Take care B...

But isn't it true that Jake ducked Charley Burley and avoided a rematch with Lloyd Marshall?

Everyone was avoiding Burley then.

beaujack wrote:He held the MW title til 1951 when he was tkod by the great Ray Robinson in rd 7,losing his title.

Don't you mean round 13?

hhascup wrote:

beaujack wrote:He held the MW title til 1951 when he was tkod by the great Ray Robinson in rd 7,losing his title.

Don't you mean round 13?

Henry, good speaking to you again ..Yes i meant LaMotta was tko'd in the THIRTEENTH rd.
Sorry, still celebrating Eli's victory...Too much inbibing !

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Everyone was avoiding Burley then.

Not everyone avoided Charley Burley GI.An unsung WW Jimmy Leto split 2 decisions with Charley Burley. Jimmy Leto was a terrific fighter in his day,who avoided NO ONE...

Yes, I wasnt speaking literally, just pointing out how he was highly undesirable as an opponent.

beaujack wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Hi beaujack

What was the first fight you remember seeing? Also, your first truly great fighter?

As a little boy ,my family lived next door to a trainer of the great LH Champ John Henry Lewis.
Most every night I would go next door and spar with stablemates of JH Lewis. I never saw him in the apartment, but I would spar and eat salads with oil, with his stablemates. After I grew a little older I was hooked on boxing's great history. My dad who boxed in smokers as a youngster ,saw Benny Leonard and he saw the GREAT Harry Greb administer a tremendous beating to Gene Tunney in 1922, MSG. He would say to me that Tunney was bathed in blood in their first bout in 1922.
He would take me to the Golden Gloves Amateur bouts in NY. But my first pro main event i saw ringside was at St. Nicks Arena in NY,where a new SENSATION named Beau Jack from Georgia,
met a TOUGH older friend of Rocky Graziano, named Terry Young [Angelo DeSanza]. What a great bout that was between two pit bulls...Jack got the decision, and I later saw Beau Jack become LW champion. So my first pro main event was one of the best fights I ever saw.
As for the first great fighter I as a youngster ever saw ? Well My dad and I saw Ray Robinson
"carry" his idol, fading Henry Armstrong in MSG 1943.We in the audience sensed that Robinson never went all out against Armstrong. It was a dull bout between these two immortals.
But about 1 year later we watched a prime Ray Robinson flatten a tough Calfornian Jimmy McDaniels
with a barrage of punches so amazingly fast and powerful. Ray Robinson at WW was the greatest fighter I EVER saw, followed by Willie Pep who I saw at his peak outclass a tough lightweight boxer Allie Stolz in 1943. Willie Pep before his near fatal plane crash had to be seen to be believed. He anticipated his opponent's next move, was the second best fighter I ever saw in the 1940s "golden age" of boxing. Hope I answered your questions Ezzard ?

Thanks so much. It's posts like these, and guys like youself, that made me sign up to this site in the first place.

As I'm a Brit I'd love to know your opinions on the good and bad you may have seen from over here...

Ezzard wrote:

beaujack wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Hi beaujack

What was the first fight you remember seeing? Also, your first truly great fighter?

As a little boy ,my family lived next door to a trainer of the great LH Champ John Henry Lewis.
Most every night I would go next door and spar with stablemates of JH Lewis. I never saw him in the apartment, but I would spar and eat salads with oil, with his stablemates. After I grew a little older I was hooked on boxing's great history. My dad who boxed in smokers as a youngster ,saw Benny Leonard and he saw the GREAT Harry Greb administer a tremendous beating to Gene Tunney in 1922, MSG. He would say to me that Tunney was bathed in blood in their first bout in 1922.
He would take me to the Golden Gloves Amateur bouts in NY. But my first pro main event i saw ringside was at St. Nicks Arena in NY,where a new SENSATION named Beau Jack from Georgia,
met a TOUGH older friend of Rocky Graziano, named Terry Young [Angelo DeSanza]. What a great bout that was between two pit bulls...Jack got the decision, and I later saw Beau Jack become LW champion. So my first pro main event was one of the best fights I ever saw.
As for the first great fighter I as a youngster ever saw ? Well My dad and I saw Ray Robinson
"carry" his idol, fading Henry Armstrong in MSG 1943.We in the audience sensed that Robinson never went all out against Armstrong. It was a dull bout between these two immortals.
But about 1 year later we watched a prime Ray Robinson flatten a tough Calfornian Jimmy McDaniels
with a barrage of punches so amazingly fast and powerful. Ray Robinson at WW was the greatest fighter I EVER saw, followed by Willie Pep who I saw at his peak outclass a tough lightweight boxer Allie Stolz in 1943. Willie Pep before his near fatal plane crash had to be seen to be believed. He anticipated his opponent's next move, was the second best fighter I ever saw in the 1940s "golden age" of boxing. Hope I answered your questions Ezzard ?

Thanks so much. It's posts like these, and guys like youself, that made me sign up to this site in the first place.

As I'm a Brit I'd love to know your opinions on the good and bad you may have seen from over here...

Ezzard, the two best British fighters I saw ringside was Bruce Woodcock, who got flattened by Tami Mauriello at MSG in the 1940s. Woodcock could hit but Mauriello was just tougher.
I was lucky to see the return bout between Randy Turpin and Ray Robinson in 1951 at the old Polo Grounds in NY. Turpin had beaten the great Robinson in London prior to this return bout. What a fight it was! Robinson's eye was very badly cut in an early round and the referee was close to stopping the bout, so in the tenth round Robinson [best fighter I ever saw] opened up with a do or die attack,and
had Turpin in dire trouble, helpless, and the referee stopped the bout in the 10th rd. What a fight, what a finish that was.!!
My dad saw probably the best English fighter ever, Ted Kid Lewis train in America, and later on saw Jackie Kid Berg in the 1930s.

Beaujack: let's briefly step out of the 40's; what are your memories of Patterson and Pastrano( 2 of my all-time favorites). Did you see them in person?

Bobby A. wrote:Beaujack: let's briefly step out of the 40's; what are your memories of Patterson and Pastrano( 2 of my all-time favorites). Did you see them in person?

Hya bobby. i heard a lot about willie Pastrano during his prime, though I never saw him ringside,as he seldom fought in NY. A great moving MW/LHW/HW,who I believe hurt himself gaining and losing weight. A light puncher Pastrano depended on quickness and boxing ability. I saw his ko by Jose Torres in 1965 on television from a body blow...His best win was beating the 35 year old Harold Johnson for the LH title in 1963.
Ah, Floyd patterson, one of the finest boxing gentleman ever. I saw Floyd as an amateur in NY before turning pro in 1952. He was a sensation from the beginning in the NY area. I saw him lose his first fight in 1954 to Joey Maxim at Eastern P'kwy Arena, a few blocks from my domain. A close decision it was. Floyd was a terrific LH, in his prime. When he retired i would see him often as a trainer for Golden Glove fighters, and when he was introduced he would shyly wave to the crowd. The crowd loved his modest demeanor, and so did I...What a nice man was Floyd...

Hi Beau

Do you believe there are any fighters, say in the last 5-10yrs, who might have been able to compete in the great era's that have passed, the 40's, 50's etc..

How do you feel a Mayweather or Pacquiao would fair in a talent rich division of WW cicra 40's? WW is where the Great Ray Robinson fought in his prime, as did Hammerin' Hank aswell as other great fighters.

bengulnaci1 wrote:Hi Beau

Do you believe there are any fighters, say in the last 5-10yrs, who might have been able to compete in the great era's that have passed, the 40's, 50's etc..

How do you feel a Mayweather or Pacquiao would fair in a talent rich division of WW cicra 40's? WW is where the Great Ray Robinson fought in his prime, as did Hammerin' Hank aswell as other great fighters.

ben, hard to compare era's but Mayweather and Manny Pac would do well in the 1940s. Would they be champs. No sir, not with the likes of Ike Williams, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery in the LW division, and certainly Floyd and Manny would lose to a WW Ray Robinson, or Kid Gavilan or Tommy Bell, Bernard Docusen etc. These guys each fought one hundred bouts against the cream of the crop those days. To get a main event bout in the 1940s you had to have 50-60 bouts, as there was maybe FIVE times the amount of pro fighters as there is today, and the best full time trainers.
A Henry Armstrong or a young Beau Jack ,with theire nonstop attack would surely overwhelm the defensive minded Mayweather. He could avoid only a certain amount of barrages from these two great swarmers...

Excellent point about the sheer number of fighters that were active during these periods. No doubt this propelled the sport into a different stratosphere, in terms of competition and skill. To watch a Willie Pep, Ike Williams, Beau Jack, Henry Armstrong, Ray Robinson, Kid Galivan, in the flesh must have been some experience.

Thanks for sharing your insight and personal experiences, Beau. Appreciated.