Larry Holmes :Does he make the top five ??

[Bricks]

I'm probably with you guys, though I feel clearly it's Ali at number one, then Holmes followed by Lewis for me. Haven't really seen anything of Louis to be able to comment and Lewis is largely in there based on size in that I just can't see how smaller heavies such as Frazier could have coped with a prime Lewis.
However, Frazier vs Holyfield is one hypothetical match-up that would have me salivating...

Agree with you on Holyfieldv Frazier
That said I dont think Lewis's size would be any problem for smokin joe Frazier...its still my opinion the HW division used to have incrediblly talented athletec specimens and these tended to peak out at 200-225 lbs. Over that and a lot of HWs are just less athletic fat versons of themselves...or alternatively musclebound big men with talent but a serious loss of speed.

Ironically the young Lewis at 220-225 was one of the last great black athletic HW's of which there once were so many

the heavier bigger Lewis punched harder but had a serious loss of speed and relied on a lot of illegal tactics such as leaning down and holding on smaller guys like the shot to shreds Tyson. His power kept a tough shorter puncher like Tua who once had great stamina and will honest......but cmon a fat Tua heck even a in shape Tua should never be compared to smokin Joe Frazier.....Joe would have broken up Lewis's body on the inside and Lewis jab would have missed all night....the uppercut would have been a big threat, but I think Lewis is right there to be knocked out by a Frazier left hook.....so many people on here overrate Lewis and forget he was knocked cold by all time greats like Rahman and Mccall....Joe would knock him out and take his heart away.

I respect your difference of opinion deserter and my above comments are just my opinion, just as your opinion is yours. I do recall Ring Magazine when comparing Lewis in 2002 with the all time greats also saw Joe beating Lewis.

Obviously Lewis would try and do a Foreman but he was no Foreman...his chin would let him down.

I love Lennox Lewis I have him right up there in the top ten around 7 or 8....I loved the way he took out Grant, Botha and Klitchko to go out on a high...but he wasnt in the league of Holmes,Frazier or Liston.

LISTON!! I just don't get that!! Sounds like I've a downer on Liston which I haven't btw, but Lewis beats Liston all day long!!

You think a guy who got knocked out in his prime with one punch by Rahman and Mccall and didnt even try and fight back/couldnt fight back beats a Sonny Liston???

We can agree to disagree Frank and i respect your opinion, none of us know this stuff for sure me especially but all of us modern day fans have a tendency to rate highly those we saw through their careers....ive watched a lot of Liston and Ive heard the opinions of those boxing historians who lived through Liston and Lewis's reigns and I tend to agree with them Liston wins. An iron chin in his prime, power , a incredibly powerful jab, will to win and intimidatory powers....

[Bard of Boxrec]

1. Louise
2. Ali
3. Richard Williams
4. Fornomenal
5. Frans Botha
6. Larry Holmes

6 for me.

[DavidPayne]

#2 for me.

On style and ability rather than resume.

[Darcy Delaney]

1. Ali
2. Louis
3. Frazier
4. Foreman
5. Holmes
6. Holyfield
7. Dempsey
8. Marciano
9. Lewis
10. Liston

i don't know why people have marciano ranked so high, who did he beat that was in there prime,? i think in there prime all of the above names would had done him, also looking at his weight's for fights the most he ever weighed was 13st 10lbs so your saying that a on form tyson would have struggled with the rock, i dont think so

[dr_devious]

LISTON!! I just don't get that!! Sounds like I've a downer on Liston which I haven't btw, but Lewis beats Liston all day long!!

If Rahman and McCall knock Lennox out then Sonny Liston would as well. Liston was as destructive and intimidating heavyweight the sport has ever seen. And he would have scared Tyson shitless.

I've got Holmes at number 3 in my top ten, behind Ali and Louis.

At 4 Jack Johnson, 5 Liston and 6 Foreman

7 Lennox, 8 Smokin Joe, 9 Jack Demspey, 10 Holyfield

[crusader]

Take away the demolition jobs he did on the chinniest heavyweight champion in history and Sonny's resume is not that remarkable. Who is his next best win over? Cleveland Williams or Chuck Wepner. Then who are you left with?

Liston is, imo, the most overrated of the heavyweight 'greats.' His supporters will have you believe that Williams, Eddie Machen, and Zora Foley were very, very good opponents.

As for Holmes, a very strong case can be made that he is top five.

[frankgreaves]

Take away the demolition jobs he did on the chinniest heavyweight champion in history and Sonny's resume is not that remarkable. Who is his next best win over? Cleveland Williams or Chuck Wepner. Then who are you left with?

Liston is, imo, the most overrated of the heavyweight 'greats.' His supporters will have you believe that Williams, Eddie Machen, and Zora Foley were very, very good opponents.

As for Holmes, a very strong case can be made that he is top five.

This!!

[crusader]

I put the most emphasis on level of opposition, which also has a significant impact on how good the fighter looks. It's much easier for a fighter to get hit , miss his own punches, and make mistakes against top opponents than average opponents.

Impressive performances against second, third, and fourth tier heavyweights (by all time standards) don't warrant veneration imo. Listion would rank much higher on my list if he hadn't been humiliated in his only bouts against a fellow 'great.'

[Lenny]

3 for me. I tend to have Ali and Louis rotating number 1 position. Johnson on his own in 4. 5-11 a combination of Dempsey, Frazier, Lewis, Tyson, Holyfield, Liston and Marciano. Order very much depending on my mood. Today for example, I have no love for Holyfield. This will probably change next week.

[Captain Hook]

In terms of ability he is number one for me... vastly underrated and would have beaten the top guys of the seventies in their pomp

Shame Tyson got him so late in the day

He's top five every day of the week..along with Lewis, Ali, Louis and Frazier IMO

[Quixall]

Some interesting comments made on Larry and where he sits in the top tier of heavyweight boxing. For me, Larry had good all round tecchnical ability, he could jab supremely well, was very good on his feet, had a good ring generalship and had courage and stamina in bucket loads. Holmes is at No.2 with Ali gaining the top spot. A lot of people have placed Lewis in the top five and even at number three which is something i wouldn't say myself.

Lewis makes my top ten list, but one thing you have to say about Lennox is "Who did he fight ?". Lewis' only defining fights were against Holyfield. Tyson was shot to piece by the time Lennox faced him and his name was bigger than the actual threat he posed in the ring. Lennox's defining fights should have been against Riddick Bowe. He could and should have fought Bowe twice and the fact that the fight never took place at all has had a detrimental effect on how Lewis' career is viewed.

Lewis had all the qualities that make up a great heavyweight. He had a decent jab, was a very technical boxer, had good feet, had big power in his right hand and could fight on the inside just aswell as on the outside. The problem for Lennox is similar to the one that faces Jones Jr, in that despite your athleticism and talent, you will invariably be judged on who you fought, and not your attributes as a fighter.

Lennox had some good fights against the likes of Tua, Grant, Briggs, Bruno, Mercer, Rahman, Botha and Razor Ruddock, but the only fights that people can point to are the ones against Tyson and Holyfield, plus the defeats to McCall and Rahman. If Lennox had of fought Bowe twice and won, if he had faced Tyson much earlier and if he had comprehensively beaten Holyfield, then i think he would deserve aplace in the top five.

As it was, Lewis beat a shot Tyson, had two close and debatable fights with Holyfield, never fought Bowe, lost to a very average McCall, got badly knocked out by a virtual journeyman in Rahman and was on the road to gtting stopped by Vitali Klitschko until Vitali's cut saved his bacon. I like Lennox, watched all his fights and rate him highly, but for the reasons given, he falls short of my top five and a long way short of what Larry Holmes achieved.

[yiddo14]

With Lennox there is always a feeling of what could have been.

He beat Holyfield, clearly the first time although a bit closer the 2nd time. Bowe didn't want to know for whatever reason ( I don't think he was scared of losing, just scared of losing to Lewis, a man he hated ) and the Tyson fight didn't come soon enough. Then again, unless Lewis fought Tyson prior to prison ( not happening as Lewis was still novice pro ) people would always say it was a past it Mike ( people would say that if Lewis fought Mike just after Douglas too, for me, all 3 of Lewis, Bowe and Holyfield beat Mike in their respective primes but thats a different chat )

He beat everyone he faced and lost to two he never should have lost to. His own doing, although one can argue the first loss was stopped a tad early.

We could and perhaps should be discussing Lewis as a guy who went unbeaten through his career and beat Bowe, Holyfield and Tyson in that time. He would be a hell of a contender for top slot if that little scenario had played out!

[Quixall]

With Lennox there is always a feeling of what could have been.

He beat Holyfield, clearly the first time although a bit closer the 2nd time. Bowe didn't want to know for whatever reason ( I don't think he was scared of losing, just scared of losing to Lewis, a man he hated ) and the Tyson fight didn't come soon enough. Then again, unless Lewis fought Tyson prior to prison ( not happening as Lewis was still novice pro ) people would always say it was a past it Mike ( people would say that if Lewis fought Mike just after Douglas too, for me, all 3 of Lewis, Bowe and Holyfield beat Mike in their respective primes but thats a different chat )

He beat everyone he faced and lost to two he never should have lost to. His own doing, although one can argue the first loss was stopped a tad early.

We could and perhaps should be discussing Lewis as a guy who went unbeaten through his career and beat Bowe, Holyfield and Tyson in that time. He would be a hell of a contender for top slot if that little scenario had played out!

Yeah, i agree Yid......

Prime for prime, i think that Lewis and Holyfield beat Tyson, aslong as they keep out of trouble for the first five rounds of the fight, but Bowe i think loses to Tyson prime for prime. As you say, Lennox would have had to fight Tyson around the time of the Spinks fight to face Tyson in his prime and at that time a physically smaller, less mature and less experienced Lewis would have got murdered by Tyson. I still don't know how Lewis and Bowe never got to fight, because it was the prefect heavyweight fight in terms of the talent and the history of both guys. As you say and i say in another post, if Lewis had of beaten Holyfield convincingly, beaten Bowe and never lost to Rahman and McCall, aswell as beating Tyson in the fashion he did, a shot Tyson or not, then Lewis' legacy would have looked very impressive.