BoxRec

Rosario, or Cotto?

I was talking about Rosario, I offended Spoon by saying he wasn't top 10. I would have Cotto in the same range.

I was not offended Saad, just doing a bit of innocent, lighthearted cheerleading for one of my childhood favourites.
I actually would have agreed with you that Rosario did not belong in the top ten PR boxers, based on my limited exposure.
It irked me to see Camacho mentioned in the initial post in the absence of my man (I never claimed he belonged in the top 10).
But I bow to the judgement of people who obviously have seen more of these fighters than I have, so I am happy to see Borinkens 10.
(and happy to rub it in your face, in the nicest possible way, with all due respect!)

Trinidad is an absolute must for a top 10 Puerto Rican fighters list. Nothing wrong with Rosario or Camacho in there, either.

King Carlos wrote:Trinidad is an absolute must for a top 10 Puerto Rican fighters list. Nothing wrong with Rosario or Camacho in there, either.

Trinidad is to the Rican top-10 what Chavez is to the Mexican equivalent --- way over-rated due to his immense popularity (except Chavez is a legit contender for the #1 spot, whereas Trinidad's routine listing gggmm the top 5 or 6 of all-time Ricans is just obscene.

witherspoon wrote:I was not offended Saad, just doing a bit of innocent, lighthearted cheerleading for one of my childhood favourites.
I actually would have agreed with you that Rosario did not belong in the top ten PR boxers, based on my limited exposure.
It irked me to see Camacho mentioned in the initial post in the absence of my man (I never claimed he belonged in the top 10).
But I bow to the judgement of people who obviously have seen more of these fighters than I have, so I am happy to see Borinkens 10.
(and happy to rub it in your face, in the nicest possible way, with all due respect!)

Just kidding man, your humorous tones were quite easy to grasp.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

King Carlos wrote:Trinidad is an absolute must for a top 10 Puerto Rican fighters list. Nothing wrong with Rosario or Camacho in there, either.

Trinidad is to the Rican top-10 what Chavez is to the Mexican equivalent --- way over-rated due to his immense popularity (except Chavez is a legit contender for the #1 spot, whereas Trinidad's routine listing gggmm the top 5 or 6 of all-time Ricans is just obscene.

How so? You've got Ortiz, Gomez, Benitez, Montanez, and Basora. That's 5 Ricans I'd rate over Tito. Who else?

Not mentioned here, probably rightfully so but one of my favourites… Victor Callejas.

Classy fighter who scored a much underrated KO of Loris Stecca. The fight in Italy saw lots of dodgy tactics by the Italians. Callejas complained about interference in his hotel romm and the lights went off in the venue where the fight happened.

The fight was shown as highlights in the UK. Anybody got a copy?

nice thread.

agreed with many points on cotto, an attractive offensive fighter who nonetheless kind of rubs me the wrong way. somebody I should like more than I do. I've not been excited the last few years, not until the rumours of a match with middleweight king Sergio Martinez. I think these 2 will match very well together...

not keen on his 154-pound wins over margarito and mayorga, massively overhyped fights. credible title defences but no way are these the superfights they were being sold as. maybe this pins down my dislike of cotto. these fights, plus the welterweight struggles vs mosley and Judah - 2 fights that consolidated him as a NY attraction, rather than making him a legend - are not bad fights, they're world class, but they're always sold as something they're not.

cotto's 140-pound title fights may be subject to revisionism, however: bailey went on to win another world title; so did torres, after their remarkable fight; so did malingaggi. n'dou & maussa, beaten before cotto won the WBO strap, also look good in lieu of their wins over ben rabbah & Vivian harris for titles. that wasn't a bad little run at 140, albeit in the shadow of tszyu/hatton. but, winning the title vs pinto typifies the career of cotto - who was pinto to be fighting for a world title? - the fight was made because it's all about cotto, a chance to avenge the 2 amateur losses.

cotto always seems to be in a race against time, to defend his title while he can still make the weight (see clottey at 147 & malignaggi at 140). I think cotto fell behind when he had the car crash and the injury which took half a year off his development & may have prevented him from throwing the right hand with as much conviction. I have a feeling that had cotto remained busy in this period, he'd have kept his weight down and maybe been fast tracked into a splinter lightweight title. think he's harmed his body a bit making 140 for too long, he seems exhausted after 8 rds ala DLH (who forced himself down to small weights).

similar in some ways to Rosario. compact/stumpy build. serious artillery, yet unable to sustain pressure vs the hard cases, more tired than the men they've been battering for 7 or 8 rounds - cotto-margarito 1 & Rosario-Ramirez 1. both able to box smoothly but lack of height hurt them vs tall and/or mobile opponents - cotto-trout & mayweather a perfect case in point; Rosario-davis jr and Camacho - unable to land serious attacks for long stretches, winning the former and losing the latter controversially following late rallies (see how much more effective Rosario was when a taller fighter fought small, slugging with him: Anthony jones). Rosario did lose his all-Puerto rico fight (Camacho) whereas cotto won his, Quintana, in his finest career showing. liked rosario's career better as it was full of really exciting surprises - for the better, and for the worse! - and not as obviously planned as cotto's, who'd win a title with a brilliant performance (140 pinto, 147 Quintana, 154 foreman) followed by diminishing performances & inevitable fades.

King Carlos wrote:Don't really understand your fixation with Torres, to be honest.

1. Ortiz
2. Gomez
3. Benitez
4. Montanez
5. Trinidad

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King Carlos, among Boricua boxers. Born in the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico. Among Boricua boxers who were born in the continental United States (US). -------

How do you think Jose Torres should rank?


Somewhere in the top 15?


Or, top 10?


Why?

witherspoon wrote:Edwin Rosario should have made the first post of his thread, at least.

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Among Boricua boxers all time. ------- Should Edwin Rosario rank in the top 10?


Or, top 15?


If so, why?



Please explain.

Borinken25 wrote:Why the hell people leaves out the likes of Jose Basora and Cocoa kid. I rank them both ahead of the more popular Trinidad.

Here is my list:
1. Carlos Ortiz
2. Wilfredo Gomez
3. Wilfredo Benitez
4. Pedro Montanez
5. Jose Basora (has a draw vs prime Robinson and win over Jake LaMotta) Do you seriously believe that Trinidad should rank over him. Basora and Cocoa Kid would have beaten Trinidad, of that I have little doubt.
6. Cocoa Kid
7. Felix Trinidad
8. Esteban De Jesus
9. Edwin Rosario
10. Hector Camacho

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I see your list above. I pretty much see eye to eye with you about 7 of them.

With all due respect, not quite about Wilfredo Gomez, Felix Trinidad and Edwin Rosario.


Borinken25, who you have listed at number 7, Felix Trinidad.


Felixs losses to Bernard Hopkins, Ronald "Winky" Wright and Roy Jones Jr.. ------

Felix being ranked at #7? A bit high?