BoxRec

Can we name the top fighters that DM fought that Jones didn't?

To say that the great Roy Jones, Jr would have dominated Dariusz Michaelzewski if they would have fought back in 1998-99, would be to me a bunch of crap. DM was the best guy out there for Jones to fight at that weight class, and the fight did not happened. Jones was a great fighter in his prime, but I consider at least about 65 to 70 fighters all-time, pound per pound, better than he. He really did not risk to fight NOBODY after he fought Bernard Hopkins and James Toney. At least these two, risked to fight other dangerous opponents. Jones ALWAYS LOOKED THE EASY WAY OUT after he fought Toney. The competition was out there: Michael Nunn, Gerald McClellan, Steve Little, Dariuz M, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank, and others.

You cannot put his triumph over a goofy-goofy fighter like John Ruiz as the same breath of victory of the great Bob Fitzsimmons vs James J. Corbett. Fitzsimmons beat the best heavyweight of the time. Jones did not. The best heavyweight of Jones' time was Lennox Lewis. And he did not fight him...Why? The EASY WAY OUT.

You know when I read all of the input here and sort of distill it. Some may get the impression that Roy was sort of like a more successful Prince Naseem. Which is what I alluded to in my hypthetical Monzon vs Jones Jr outcome. However to be honest, I think he was bit more than that at the top of his game, Beating Toney, Hopkins, Tarver and Ruiz is an accomplishment. He did muddy the waters with his choice of opposition. But outside of DM can you make case that he truly avoided anyone? And his record against common opponents seems to lean toward empirical evidence that he would have endured this proposed hypthetical fight successfully.

Just my take at this point. Some folks may put him on a pedestal, some may think he was a flash in the pan. But the tapes reveal a pretty remarkable talent. For anyone who is truly open minded.

I think a Monzon vs Jones fight would indeed end up as a Barrera Vs Hamed fight. But at a much higher quality level. Monzon defeating him would not be an "exposing" moment. Though it would be an educational one.

The fight didn't happen because of money. It made fiscal sense in Germany and Roy wouldn't go there. Here, Jones was never a draw and while he had a cushy HBO contract that didn't guarantee big money for his opponent. So basically Dariusz was supposed to come here and fight Roy in front of 500 people for substantially less money than he got for packing a house in Germany.

While there are absolutes without being involved with talks, Jones has an extensive list of fighters that he didn't face. Michalczewski, Benn, Collins, Eubank, Liles & McClellan. People always like to justify it by saying Roy would have beaten them anyway. I'm sure if he never fought Tarver, fans would give him an easy win there too.

Ezzard wrote:

tommo100 wrote:why did it never happen??,my memories a bit foggy these days,but jones would never commit to it and the big pole called him out for years,bearing in mind jones was still very handy in those days i never did understand why he would`nt fight him

Probably had his people look into him, realised the guy had a pulse and looked elsewhere.

This.

It's interesting to keep in mind that some fighters avoid bouts that they would have a great chance of winning. Jones did this in regard to Dariusz as well as Steve Collins. Jones said he was looking for someone easier even though Freddie Roach admitted that Collins couldn't win the fight.Jones just didn' t want someone as tough as Dariusz.

BarryWashington wrote:nah, roy jones jr. NEVER would have beaten gerald mcclellan. NEVER

Honestly, I see it almost as sure the other way. Barring a bolt out of the blue, McClellan is in all kinds of trouble with Jones. You just can't be that defensively pourous & limited in versatility & expect a good night with Jones.

elmersala:You sir are right on the money in what you say, with one exception: Eubank ducked Jones no doubt.

His power was definitely too much for anyone in 160-168, and Jones was far from an exception.

The problem is landing it. McClellan was a plodding brawler, and absolutely EVERYONE hit him with EVERYTHING. You couldnt miss the guy, and he'd give Jones a target coming forward all day long.

As for what happened in 1995, matter of how you look at it. Asaro was certainly incompetent, but I dont call it a shame, personally. Every dog has its day, and all dogs, everywhere, had their day when that bout happened.

Its interesting to note Jones visited McClellan after the incident and reportedly vowed never to fall prey to a similar fate. If he keeps going the way he has been the last several years now, he'll be right alongside his old buddy.

Rooster one day, featherduster the next.

I thought I heard somwhere that the G-man beat Jones as an amateur.

don`t care how hard mcclellan hit,a prime jones would have beat him up bad,rjj was all wrong for mcclellan,he`d be picked off allnight,his come forward bullying style totally exposed by a then mastercraftsman

McClellan was far too unskilled to land anything of note on Jones Jr. He was the definition of a telegraphing puncher, and Jones would find the openings all too easy. Sure, he had the power, but without the ability to land that power means jack-off shit.

watching rjj box was beautiful,lateral movement,lightning handspeed and footwork,g-man was a plodder,admittedly he possesed frightening power,however he`s not up against a punch drunk mugabe or a nearly finished jackson

BarryWashington wrote:can't recall one time his punches were "telegraphed" if you could point to an example that might help clarify. otherwise it doesn't make sense. guy had snap behind his punches, came in with a sturdy jab. never once did he telegraph a punch from what i recall (and i've seen every fight of his that's available)

The right hand, his go-to punch, was insanely telegraphed. And what's worse, he consistently left himself wide open and off balance after throwing it.

BarryWashington wrote:

tommo100 wrote:don`t care how hard mcclellan hit,a prime jones would have beat him up bad,rjj was all wrong for mcclellan,he`d be picked off allnight,his come forward bullying style totally exposed by a then mastercraftsman

b-hop (who yes has a different style than gerald) didn't have that much difficulty finding Jones Jr.

What? He landed nothing damaging. Unless you're talking about the recent fight and even then he struggled.

BoxBuzz wrote:Has Roy lost that much credibility on his way down?

I don't want to lose perspective just because of my personal opinion of the guy.

I do think at his best he would have won that match.

Was it all smoke and mirrors? Go back and look at the tapes. He appears to be the real deal, right up until he gained and lost a lot of weight. Pretty remarkable skills and reflexes at the top of his game. I could see Dariusz having his lights turned out in the middle to late rounds.

Buzz-I agree that Jones was a phenomenal talent and a better fighter than DM. I don't think he would have stopped him in the middle rounds if at all. I think he would have beaten him but it could have been a tough fight. As Ezzard mentioned, Jones at that time was not interested in a tough fight.

DM was the best potential opponent out there for a long time and Jones never took him on. That has to count against him. HBO should have been screaming for this match; it was the only worthwhile light heavyweight match in that time period. But HBO acted as if DM did not exist. If Jones would have lost they would lost a big drawing card. So instead we got treated to Jones vs tomato cans for several years.

HBO couldn't handle the finances. It would bomb on PPV and Jones couldn't draw shit here and wouldn't fight there. Even if he would travel there was the problem of the time zones. The real reason that fight never happened was because Roy was shit as a draw. It was a Floyd/Hatton situation where Floyd had no viewership or ticket sales.

I was going to say, my memory of Jones was that he wasnt really a draw, though I wasnt completely sure off-hand.

HBO would have had you believe that he was an "Esteemed Florida Sports Franchise" E.G. The Dolphins lol.

He was no de La hoya but Jones was one of the biggest draws in the sport. For years He was on constantly against complete ham and eggers. He had to draw at least decent ratings against them or they would not have done this. Even if they didn't think it would be a huge pay per view fight, they could have hyped this as a huge showdown and got bigger ratings on their regular telecasts. This was just too much of a risk against a decent opponent.

He wasn't a draw at all. Couldn't fill up seats and his PPV numbers were abysmal. Look at how many times he fought in Vegas. They took him on to different locations to try and get fans in the seats. HBO locked him up long term and paid him well. That's why he was fighting ham and eggers, they couldn't afford to pay top guys like Benn. McClellan, etc.. because Roy had guaranteed money and drew nothing. I have no doubt that Michalczewski would have come here if they could give him a fat paycheck. But HBO wasn't willing to take that kind of bath.

I'm sure at one point that they asked him to fight DM for more than he usually made. He probably wanted even more. It's all about risk/reward for both HBO and most fighters, and Jones was certainly no exception. There was a chance he could lose, unlike almost all of the title defenses that he did have.


That he fought in several places showed that he was a draw. Outside of Las Vegas and Atlantic City, its hard to draw a big crowd; at least in the last 20 years or so. People came to his fights in places that were not hotbeds.

He didn't draw big crowds anywhere. They just tried their luck in some remote areas and he didn't draw shit there either. I'm shocked that you don't remember this. He was a big name in the sport, but nobody paid to see him. He did good business against Ruiz and solid numbers with tarver. But this fight was before then.

I don't doubt that he was offered more money to fight Dariusz in Germany. But not here, HBO couldn't possibly kick out the money to cover that fight without losing their ass and no promoter would take it on when a PPV would be around 100,000 buys. You're talking about a fight in Germany that is massive and in the states it is shit. I don't really blame either fighter, it's pure economics. If HBO didn't guarantee Roy his fat contract they could have forced him into something. But as it was, the money they had couldn't substantiate bringing over the big names from overseas and Jones wouldn't fight there.

I remember he sold out Radio City Music Hall. don't know exact figures, but there always seemed to be a decent crowd for his fights. It's much harder to draw 10,000 or more people in places outside of Vegas or Atlantic city. Most of the country have not cared bout boxing for more than 20 years. And of course if he was fighting name opponents than the crowds would have been bigger.

I can't believe that they could not have got atleast 15,000 in Las Vegas for DM vs Jones. If they promoted it well it could done well on PPV.
Jones was a big name. I know sports fans who were not boxing fans who knew who he was. There are that many people that I can say that about.

It would be interesting to see HBOs TV ratings for his fights as compared to other guys.

So it's your determination that he didn't fight in Vegas because he was such a big draw? That really makes sense to you? It was because he didn't sell tickets so the Casinos wouldn't put up the big bucks. That's just common sense.

By the time Roy got to where he could sell PPV's a bit, Dariusz was done. He did terrible numbers with Toney, Griffin, pazienza & Gonzalez. Knowing who someone is or watching them on your TV isn't the same as shelling out money specifically to see them. His dominance probably hurt him in that regard.

It's not like I'm calling Jones an unknown. But he would have wanted 10 million and I imagine Dariusz would want at least 5. 5,000 fans and 100,000 buys aren't anywhere near acceptable for that kind of coin.