cleverly v Robin Krasniqi

[Counter-puncher]

that all sounds a little bit postmodern

[iamasadlittleboy]

A spanner in the works...?

http://www.wboboxing.com/wbo-will-not-s ... niqi-bout/

We may give them an earful but...I'll be the first to congratulate the WBO in making the correct decision. Well done.

[Datsue]

that all sounds a little bit postmodern

I think we've found another use for the fornicating thing outside of literary criticism, mate: talking about boxing politics. It even makes a strange kind of sense, then.

Let's put it this way: when is a middleweight not a middleweight? When his name's Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. But as people on here have told me, outweighing his opponent by a stone is okay, because it was a special diet he was on, & therefore it wasn't advantageous in the sense that, say, being a stone heavier than another person would be were it you or I in a fight.

As another put in on the same thread, if it's not fair, why didn't Rubio put on another stone to match him? The obvious rejoinder ("uh, 'cos he's just not that big?") was dismissed with "Well, he could have if he wanted to. So it's still fair."

[Counter-puncher]

well, of course, i've been referring to 'World Champions' for quite some time now. the next logical step is to refer to 'Manny Pacquiao', as opposed to the flesh-and-bones article that trains with the stuttering guy. and the stuttering guy himself is a parody of postmodern unspeakability.

I think referring to that guy Arum likes as 'Chavez', has got some mileage, too. that guy 'Chavez', you know, the 'middleweight'? he's got a 'championship belt'. see, this is fun. apogee, not nemesis. brilliant.

[Datsue]

well, of course, i've been referring to 'World Champions' for quite some time now. the next logical step is to refer to 'Manny Pacquiao', as opposed to the flesh-and-bones article that trains with the stuttering guy. and the stuttering guy himself is a parody of postmodern unspeakability.

I think referring to that guy Arum likes as 'Chavez', has got some mileage, too. that guy 'Chavez', you know, the 'middleweight'? he's got a 'championship belt'. see, this is fun. apogee, not nemesis. brilliant.

Joking aside, Macho's post just made me realise how much of boxing's own internal reality you have to call into question to talk about it in any sane fvcking sense. I can feel myself going off it again, you know.

[Black Sam Bellamy]

Incredible to think it took him over 35 fights to be in a position to challenge for the European title.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Posted this in the other thread too, not sure if they should be merged...

it seems even the WBO have rejected the bum of the month club, wanting Cleverly to fight Bum B instead*.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/17448826

Not that I actually give a shit, but when the hell has this joke organisation ever enforced anything like this? Calzaghe was able to fight the likes of Tocker Podwill and Miguel Jimenez as he pleased.

Or maybe those guys WERE the mandatories?

*The guy the WBO wants him to fight actually has 7 stoppage wins against decent opposition in his last 7 wins. Thing is, don't see Cleverly vacating his beloved paper title in search of 'bigger things'. But at the same time don't see Frank wanting to take a risk with this guy - that would be displaying confidence in his fighter...allegedly

[exittored]

Could have been worse i guess.....

Are you having a laugh?

Kasniqi is a another terrible opponent especially coming off the back off the last bum they matched him against and it's sad to note that Cleverleys opposition has become weaker these last 2 fights then qaulity boxers like Karo Murat and Tony Bellew.

I simply refuse to accept Cleverley as a world champion boxer!

I'm not even asking for the likes of Hopkins, Dawson, Beibut Shumenov or Cloud but how about some competitive guys like Isaac Chilemba, Eduard Gutknecht, Dmitry Sukhotsky, Gabriel Campillo, Adrian Diaconu and i'd even accept Edison Miranda.

Of cause my man Ismayl Sillakh would spark Cleverley out in 2 rds.

[NazNaci1]

Looks like the WBO has put the boot in on this one, though. What about Dmitry Sukhotsky? I haven't seen much of this guy but he has to be better than Karpency or Krasniqi, surely? Oh wait he KO'd Nadjib Mohammedi in 2 rounds, so it wont be him.

[exittored]

Looks like the WBO has put the boot in on this one, though. What about Dmitry Sukhotsky? I haven't seen much of this guy but he has to be better than Karpency or Krasniqi, surely? Oh wait he KO'd Nadjib Mohammedi in 2 rounds, so it wont be him.

Yes good to see the WBO step in and do the right thing for once
http://www.BS.com/wbo-rejects- ... out--50839

he is way above the likes of Karpency and Krasniqi and i'd actually take him to beat Cleverley which is probably the reason why Warren dosen't fancy making the fight happen.

[iamasadlittleboy]

Incredible to think it took him over 35 fights to be in a position to challenge for the European title.

Don't confuse the WBO European belt with the actual European belt (EBU)...that's the sort of thing that we let the folks working for Warren claim.

[earsjohn]

Be interesting to see how Team Warren spin this one. It looks like WBO will not allow the fight with Krasniqi to be for the title, so do they take the risk (and potential increased financial commitment) and fight the mandatory or do they come up with a story to retain the proposed fight, while blaming some other factor for the fact it's not for a title. 3rd option I suppose could be to persuade Sukhitsky to relinquish his spot and persuade the WBO to replace him with Robin?

Either way it does seem a little peculiar to announce a world title fight ahead of getting confirmation from the WBO. Frank has made a big play in recent times of being the only UK promoter with a world titlist, while competing promoters put their fighters in riskier, albeit more attractive to the paying punter (both TV and attending), fights they are destined to lose. Did the events in Sheffield this weekend not convince him that maybe putting on a competitive fight and doing a decent job of actually promoting his own events rather than just trying to disparage his competitors, is maybe the way to go?

There's some big fights coming up - Bute v Froch, khan v Peterson, cleverly v Krasniqi. Two of those involve Brits coming off defeats, yet they are by far and away the more interesting fights.

[Bard of Boxrec]

There's some big fights coming up - Bute v Froch, khan v Peterson, cleverly v Krasniqi. Two of those involve Brits coming off defeats, yet they are by far and away the more interesting fights.

That's because the other guys are actually capable.

To be fair there's little a promoter can do with Cleverly other than match him like this. As a couple of people said in the other thread, everyone knows he won't be competitive at world level, so FW will milk his deluded fans as much and for as long as he can.

[greenyox3]

We will complain, but we all know that it will be a full house at the RAH. Until we truly start voting with our feet we will continue to be fed shows like this shitebucket of a fight.

Fights are a bit like politicians: we get the ones we deserve.

[leforge]

Anyone daft nothing to pay for a Warren show ticket let them be. After the Groves show last weekend no more for me.

Are the WBO upset about quality of the fight? Or maybe something to do with the last Cleverly WBO defence is unresolved!

[Coco]

This has nothing to do with the quality of the opponent, it is all about Clev not sidestepping the mandatory.
Obv this team has more clout than Freeman Barr's!!

[dalcumly]

At the moment Nathan Cleverley is the 'British ' light heavyweight champion and nothing more . He is approaching the stage that he's ready to compete for at least the European title and maybe soon for the 'world' title . The fact that he's the WBO champion just means he can wear a silly belt round his waist .
I keep repeating this - none of us should recognise ANY of the world boxing organisations .

For example the Martinez v Macklin fight was for the WORLD MIDDLEWEIGHT TITLE , nothing more or nothing less .

There is nothing wrong however with his promoters declaring that his fight at the Albert Hall is a 10 round international contest to keep him in tune for a future world title challenge . I think TV and the public would still buy into it .

[whiskey]

It's Clev himself and his fans i have sympathy for.

[JamesH]

I interviewed Haye about a year before he fought Enzo. He was convinced that he, his team, and Enzo wanted the fight. He concluded that Enzo's team didn't truly believe in their man.

When the fight did happen (mainly due to the incorrect view that Haye would have seriously struggled with the weight), Enzo was flattened.

I believe Nathan wants bigger, better fights.

I believe that at least some of the team have interesting opinions of Nathan's ability/limitations.

Eventually Cleverly will make enough noise for a big fight to happen, perhaps whilst operating in a different contractual arrangement than the one in which he is currently engaged. The real shame is that any slight chance he does have of winning these fights is removed by the lack of decent preperation in this part of his career. History repeating itself. He simply won't know what to do when the opponents who hit at least as hard as he does, keep hitting back.

[Datsue]

I interviewed Haye about a year before he fought Enzo. He was convinced that he, his team, and Enzo wanted the fight. He concluded that Enzo's team didn't truly believe in their man.

When the fight did happen (mainly due to the incorrect view that Haye would have seriously struggled with the weight), Enzo was flattened.

I believe Nathan wants bigger, better fights.

I believe that at least some of the team have interesting opinions of Nathan's ability/limitations.

Eventually Cleverly will make enough noise for a big fight to happen, perhaps whilst operating in a different contractual arrangement than the one in which he is currently engaged. The real shame is that any slight chance he does have of winning these fights is removed by the lack of decent preperation in this part of his career. History repeating itself. He simply won't know what to do when the opponents who hit at least as hard as he does, keep hitting back.

All my snarking aside, that's a really good post.

[greenyox3]

For example the Martinez v Macklin fight was for the WORLD MIDDLEWEIGHT TITLE , nothing more or nothing less .

And the irony is that Martinez doesn't hold any of the belts.

[Bard of Boxrec]

I interviewed Haye about a year before he fought Enzo. He was convinced that he, his team, and Enzo wanted the fight. He concluded that Enzo's team didn't truly believe in their man.

When the fight did happen (mainly due to the incorrect view that Haye would have seriously struggled with the weight), Enzo was flattened.

I believe Nathan wants bigger, better fights.

I believe that at least some of the team have interesting opinions of Nathan's ability/limitations.

Eventually Cleverly will make enough noise for a big fight to happen, perhaps whilst operating in a different contractual arrangement than the one in which he is currently engaged. The real shame is that any slight chance he does have of winning these fights is removed by the lack of decent preperation in this part of his career. History repeating itself. He simply won't know what to do when the opponents who hit at least as hard as he does, keep hitting back.

But you're assuming that gradual improvements in opponents will somehow make him competitive when he gets his 'big fight', when in reality he'd probably just be flattened by a Yusef Mack type long before he got there.

This lad just isn't very good.

[Datsue]

I interviewed Haye about a year before he fought Enzo. He was convinced that he, his team, and Enzo wanted the fight. He concluded that Enzo's team didn't truly believe in their man.

When the fight did happen (mainly due to the incorrect view that Haye would have seriously struggled with the weight), Enzo was flattened.

I believe Nathan wants bigger, better fights.

I believe that at least some of the team have interesting opinions of Nathan's ability/limitations.

Eventually Cleverly will make enough noise for a big fight to happen, perhaps whilst operating in a different contractual arrangement than the one in which he is currently engaged. The real shame is that any slight chance he does have of winning these fights is removed by the lack of decent preperation in this part of his career. History repeating itself. He simply won't know what to do when the opponents who hit at least as hard as he does, keep hitting back.

But you're assuming that gradual improvements in opponents will somehow make him competitive when he gets his 'big fight', when in reality he'd probably just be flattened by a Yusef Mack type long before he got there.

This lad just isn't very good.

True, but no matter your opinion of his ultimate abilities, then whatever he's got isn't going to be served best by mixing with the Karpencys & Krasniquis of the world. & the Pablo Nieveses & & & & & ...

He's being done a long-term disservice by not having fights which truly test him & allow his skills to grow & --via learning against decent opposition-- extend his capabilities, whatever they turn out to be.

EDIT: "decent opposition" should be scaleable, natch. I mean, I'm not suggesting Chad Dawson. But why can't he get one of the lads who've just beaten Miranda over? Or fornicating Miranda himself? Or Gutknecht (bad example, probably earns decent scratch at home)? Or even the fella who lost to Gutknecht & Shumenov, the Ukrainian cat with the unpronounceable name? But someone like that. They're not even top ten, really. They can't be that unsure of his ability to hold his own at the fringes of world class, surely?

[iamasadlittleboy]

I interviewed Haye about a year before he fought Enzo. He was convinced that he, his team, and Enzo wanted the fight. He concluded that Enzo's team didn't truly believe in their man.

When the fight did happen (mainly due to the incorrect view that Haye would have seriously struggled with the weight), Enzo was flattened.

I believe Nathan wants bigger, better fights.

I believe that at least some of the team have interesting opinions of Nathan's ability/limitations.

Eventually Cleverly will make enough noise for a big fight to happen, perhaps whilst operating in a different contractual arrangement than the one in which he is currently engaged. The real shame is that any slight chance he does have of winning these fights is removed by the lack of decent preperation in this part of his career. History repeating itself. He simply won't know what to do when the opponents who hit at least as hard as he does, keep hitting back.

But you're assuming that gradual improvements in opponents will somehow make him competitive when he gets his 'big fight', when in reality he'd probably just be flattened by a Yusef Mack type long before he got there.

This lad just isn't very good.

True, but no matter your opinion of his ultimate abilities, then whatever he's got isn't going to be served best by mixing with the Karpencys & Krasniquis of the world. & the Pablo Nieveses & & & & & ...

He's being done a long-term disservice by not having fights which truly test him & allow his skills to grow & --via learning against decent opposition-- extend his capabilities, whatever they turn out to be.

EDIT: "decent opposition" should be scaleable, natch. I mean, I'm not suggesting Chad Dawson. But why can't he get one of the lads who've just beaten Miranda over? Or effing Miranda himself? Or Gutknecht (bad example, probably earns decent scratch at home)? Or even the fella who lost to Gutknecht & Shumenov, the Ukrainian cat with the unpronounceable name? But someone like that. They're not even top ten, really. They can't be that unsure of his ability to hold his own at the fringes of world class, surely?

Chilemba was the one who beat Miranda...Chilemba is something like #13 with the WBO
Uzelkov is the Ukrainian who lost to Gutknecht, don't think he'll be ranked with the WBO though
Sillahk isn't ranked by the WBO either

All 3 would be 50-50 match ups

[NazNaci1]

He's being done a long-term disservice by not having fights which truly test him & allow his skills to grow & --via learning against decent opposition-- extend his capabilities, whatever they turn out to be.

And this has been my biggest gripe with W@rren, for years. He claims to be the biggest and best in the country but does f@!* all to improve any fighters. he matches them softly, especially if they are viewed as 'prospects' and basically unless they a JC, all it does is delay the inevitable.

I dismayed when Khan signed with him and Degale. Atleast Khan got away and has featured in much, much higher profile fights and got better. Degale is treading water, Brook left and has shown some improvements in both opposition and activity. Nathan needs to do the same as the lad does want to test himself and is confident in his own ability. W@rren will just stifle that and kill any improvements, at the expense of profit, for himself first and foremost.

Proper boxing fans know a shower of s*** when they see one.