BoxRec

Size is against Chavez, too. As are speed and hitting power.

Only Elmer and the odd JC Superstar fanatic would write it off as a given.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Oscar's style would always give Julio trouble. His thinking deficiency isn't as much of an issue because Chavez constant pressure will keep him reacting instead of thinking. And contrary to what dolts like Elmer want to believe, Oscar was not short in toughness. Great as Chavez was, he NEVER beat a fighter the quality of DelaHoya. It's absurd to just hand it to him.

Good Post. Good points. Needless to say,i definately agree ! 8)

De La hoya- and close to his prime Chavez would have been interesting.
however, if you look at the rest of elmers list, most of those fights were pretty even.

Some of the original list would have been pretty even;y matched fights, some would not have been.
I think Benvenuti would beat Hamsho, Zale would have beat Roldan almost ever time , and Bowe would have won a one-sided win over Klitschko.
Sanchez-Pep would have been great.

I think Saddler-Sanchez would have been great as well. A few more that would have been pretty even:

Tunney-Moore
McLarnin-Napoles
Harada-Olivares
Cerdan-Giardello
Rodriquez-Benitez
Starling-Quartey
Canzoneri-Beau Jack
Ferguson-Bert Cooper

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Size is against Chavez, too. As are speed and hitting power.

Only Elmer and the odd JC Superstar fanatic would write it off as a given.

A fighter of De La Hoya's class could never beat a machine like the great Julio Cesar Chavez. I don't even think he could beat Meldrick Taylor. DLH was not that good.

Uh-huh.

foxy01 wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Size is against Chavez, too. As are speed and hitting power.

Only Elmer and the odd JC Superstar fanatic would write it off as a given.

A fighter of De La Hoya's class could never beat a machine like the great Julio Cesar Chavez. I don't even think he could beat Meldrick Taylor. DLH was not that good.

I am not so sure Elmer, but one thing is sure, prime for prime at 140 it would have been a lot closer than the 2 they had when JCC was declining.

No, it would have been just as one-sided in the opposite direction, with Chavez KOing hin in four rounds...right, elmer?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

foxy01 wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: A fighter of De La Hoya's class could never beat a machine like the great Julio Cesar Chavez. I don't even think he could beat Meldrick Taylor. DLH was not that good.

I am not so sure Elmer, but one thing is sure, prime for prime at 140 it would have been a lot closer than the 2 they had when JCC was declining.

No, it would have been just as one-sided in the opposite direction, with Chavez KOing hin in four rounds...right, elmer?

Definately DLH does not had the skills, the necessary skills to beat a guy so magnificent like Julio Cesar Chavez....It's like a Double A league playing the Major Leagues or a Toyota to be compared with a Ferrari or somethin like that.

There is no doubt in my mind, that at 140lbs, DLH could NOT beat these guys:
Carlos Ortiz
Antonio Cervantes
Wilfred Benitez
Nicolino Locche
Aaron Pryor
Duilio Loi
Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles ( the 60s version fought at jr welter)

The Fact remains that Chavez never beat a fighter as good as Oscar.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The Fact remains that Chavez never beat a fighter as good as Oscar.

Say what??? Is this is a joke?

I agree De La Hoya probably wouldnt beat (most of) those guys, Elmer...trouble is nearly all of them were better men than Chavez he wouldnt beat either

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I agree De La Hoya probably wouldnt beat (most of) those guys, Elmer...trouble is nearly all of them were better men than Chavez he wouldnt beat either

Now you are going too much, or a little too much to the left, now. Chavez could hang with any all-time great, including the great Roberto Duran, from 130lbs to 140lbs.

Chavez was very good and he should be placed where he should be...He got credentials. Now to say that Chavez NEVER BEAT someone as good as Oscar that is waaaayyy out of the line. What that person was smoking?

Oscar is not in Chavez' class. That is like a Ferrari compared to a Toyota.

You seem to overlook some serious issues for Chavez which exist REGARDLESS of whether you imagine De La Hoya in Chavez's class or not.

De La Hoya is BIGGER

De La Hoya is FASTER

De La Hoya is A HEAVIER PUNCHER

De La Hoya is MORE ADAPTABLE

De La Hoya is AT A STYLE ADVANTAGE

In a clash at 140, its a fight...to everyones eyes but yours, mate.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:You seem to overlook some serious issues for Chavez which exist REGARDLESS of whether you imagine De La Hoya in Chavez's class or not.

De La Hoya is BIGGER

De La Hoya is FASTER

De La Hoya is A HEAVIER PUNCHER

De La Hoya is MORE ADAPTABLE

De La Hoya is AT A STYLE ADVANTAGE

In a clash at 140, its a fight...to everyones eyes but yours, mate.

DLH is clumsier

DLH technique is INFERIOR

DLH was never the bigger puncher

DLH was never a style advantage for the great Julio Cesar Chavez

DLH caught Chavez at the end of his career. He was ready to be taken.

DLH does not know to fight inside.


Prime Chavez was one of the best that I have ever seen.

Christ.

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The Fact remains that Chavez never beat a fighter as good as Oscar.

Say what??? Is this is a joke?

Nope, it's the truth. As painful as it might be for you to accept, Oscar was a better fighter than Rosario, Ramirez, Lockridge, LaPorte, etc..

elmersalsa wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:I agree De La Hoya probably wouldnt beat (most of) those guys, Elmer...trouble is nearly all of them were better men than Chavez he wouldnt beat either

N Now to say that Chavez NEVER BEAT someone as good as Oscar that is waaaayyy out of the line. What that person was smoking?

Who was better? Bring the humor.

elmersalsa wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:You seem to overlook some serious issues for Chavez which exist REGARDLESS of whether you imagine De La Hoya in Chavez's class or not.

De La Hoya is BIGGER

De La Hoya is FASTER

De La Hoya is A HEAVIER PUNCHER

De La Hoya is MORE ADAPTABLE

De La Hoya is AT A STYLE ADVANTAGE

In a clash at 140, its a fight...to everyones eyes but yours, mate.

DLH is clumsier

DLH technique is INFERIOR

DLH was never the bigger puncher
DLH was never a style advantage for the great Julio Cesar Chavez

DLH caught Chavez at the end of his career. He was ready to be taken.

DLH does not know to fight inside.


Prime Chavez was one of the best that I have ever seen.

This is laughable. While I rate DLH as the inferior boxer without a doubt but Chavez at no point in his career beats him. DLH was too strong. KOing Meldrick Taylor and KOing Fernando Vargas are two different measures of power. While Vargas is really a bum compared to Chavez, Chavez would've been murdered by him at 154.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:The Fact remains that Chavez never beat a fighter as good as Oscar.

Say what??? Is this is a joke?

Nope, it's the truth. As painful as it might be for you to accept, Oscar was a better fighter than Rosario, Ramirez, Lockridge, LaPorte, etc..

You must be out of your mind. I don't see Oscar whupping none of those guys above. They were very good.

IKSRTFO wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:You seem to overlook some serious issues for Chavez which exist REGARDLESS of whether you imagine De La Hoya in Chavez's class or not.

De La Hoya is BIGGER

De La Hoya is FASTER

De La Hoya is A HEAVIER PUNCHER

De La Hoya is MORE ADAPTABLE

De La Hoya is AT A STYLE ADVANTAGE

In a clash at 140, its a fight...to everyones eyes but yours, mate.

DLH is clumsier

DLH technique is INFERIOR

DLH was never the bigger puncher
DLH was never a style advantage for the great Julio Cesar Chavez

DLH caught Chavez at the end of his career. He was ready to be taken.

DLH does not know to fight inside.


Prime Chavez was one of the best that I have ever seen.

This is laughable. While I rate DLH as the inferior boxer without a doubt but Chavez at no point in his career beats him. DLH was too strong. KOing Meldrick Taylor and KOing Fernando Vargas are two different measures of power. While Vargas is really a bum compared to Chavez, Chavez would've been murdered by him at 154.

What are you saying is LAUGHABLE. At no point in Chavez career he does not beat DLH? Say what? How you forgotten how magnificent Julio was between 130 and 140lbs?

DLH fights Chavez in a 3 fight series at 140lbs he loses them all. There is no way.

Chavez won't be murdered by Vargas, either. Vargas was not that good.

The idea that Chavez hit harder than De La Hoya at 140 and he could go upto 154 and fight Vargas on even terms sums up the absurdity of it all, really...

Goodnight, Irene wrote:The idea that Chavez hit harder than De La Hoya at 140 and he could go upto 154 and fight Vargas on even terms sums up the absurdity of it all, really...

You forgot that Chavez is only 5'7" and DLH was 5'10"...Of course, going up in weight, it will favor DLH. But from 140lbs on down, IT FAVORS CHAVEZ.... I cannot see this guy beating someone as great as Chavez between 130 and 140lbs... Not in the 1984-90 time frame, which was Chavez' best years. Not at all.
Heck, DLH could not even beat a guy like John John Molina. Molina got robbed. If you say that Molina is equal to Chavez, I will end this right now. Keep dreaming.

I'll take that opportunity...Molina is equal to Chavez.

Elmer, leaving all the rest aside, and the fact I like you, you have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER on how to score a fight. Marquez whupped in his second bout with Pacquiao, Norton flat-robbed in his second fight with Ali...now, Molina robbed against De La Hoya.

If it werent so stupid (and earnest), itd be funny.

I got to go...This is very RIDICULOUS

elmersalsa wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

elmersalsa wrote: Say what??? Is this is a joke?

Nope, it's the truth. As painful as it might be for you to accept, Oscar was a better fighter than Rosario, Ramirez, Lockridge, LaPorte, etc..

You must be out of your mind. I don't see Oscar whupping none of those guys above. They were very good.

Juan Laporte is greater than DelaHoya?

Damn straight!