BoxRec

If we're talking about each man at their best, however, I cant rightly see how anyone can favour Mayweather --- he is not a great WW, let alone a JMW. His lone foray at the weight was an uninspired decision over a semi-retired De La Hoya some five or six years past his prime!

Forget that even if you like, the crux of it lies here --- stylistically, and reinforced by the size disparity, Mayweather can win neither a fire-fight nor a chess match, and there is nothing in his career to suggest he could overcome a bigger man as capable in both those categories in a mixed fight.

Of course mayweather is at big disadvantage here this is not his best weight. It would be similar to asking who would win Hagler or Norris at 160. Terry still manage to struggle wit sum regular guys Floyd would have no probs wit even at 154

And Mayweather, in turn, struggled with a guy Norris would not have --- an over-the-hill De La Hoya.

You are acting as if Mayweather's only obstacle is size --- realities are Norris is an AWFUL mix of Boxing and Brutalising, each in formidable measure.

It just isnt a match Norris is likely to lose, because he is unlikely to be out-boxed by a smaller man whose last great division is two classes south at 140, and who has absolutely no weapons or inclination to out-punch or brawl.

Norris wins 8 out of 10 Boxing exchanges and 10 out of 10 punch-ups. I'd make him an overall favourite in the region of 80-85%. Mayweather deserves recognition as the better boxer overall, but the cards are stacked against him both stylistically and in terms of size here.

I'd be giving the likes of De La Hoya, Trinidad and perhaps Mosley substantially better odds against Norris at 154.

I agree that Terry is the favorite but I didn't see Mayweather struggle at all with Oscar and Norris wouldn't have a size advantage.

That fight (Mayweather-De La Hoya) gets wider with every re-telling, IMO.

Not by me, it was competitive for a couple rounds and Floyd swept the second half at half speed. That's what I saw that night and my mind has never changed. I actually went back and watched it over because, to me, it gets closer every re-telling - 9-3 the night of the fight and 9-3 a couple years later. It wasn't overly impressive, but it was closer to toying with him than it was struggling.

That's just opinion, Norris definitively wouldn't have a size advantage.

scallum wrote:Just saw video of Norris vs Walters not good for terry. Floyd owns The Norris in this fight. Terry was heck of wild n displayed no Defenses at all

Rather than looking at one of Terry's most sloppy performances as an indicator, instead take a gander at the way Norris totally nullified Simon Brown in their rematch once he'd learnt the error of just trying to blast everyone out.

When Norris was using his head, he was a beautiful boxer with so much speed and power at his disposal. He found problems when he forgot to set his attacks up behind his boxing ability, but when he took his time and let it flow he was clinical. Superb movement, jab, variety of attack and all backed with power, speed and formidable physical strength. His only weakness was a shaky chin and that only really mattered when he was up against genuine punchers, something that Floyd simply isn't.

Jeff Thomas wrote:

greynotsoold wrote:It is interesting that Norris acquired a rep for having a shaky chin. I followed his career from his 4th fight on and bought into it, never putting it together that his chin only got shaky when guys like Julian Jackson and Simon Brown punched him there. How odd...
I think that Norris would beat Mayweather; I think he may even stop him, if Mayweather tried to come on. Norris would get ahead early, and he could box patiently and get himself countered, and coast to a decision. Unless Floyd tried to rally, then it wouldn't suprise me to see Norris catch him with something. And shaky chins sort of run in the Mayweather clan. (Roger, at least)

Hi mate Norris looked shaky a number of times not just brown and Norris... Waters, rupa, Mullins, meldrick Taylor,boudouani, rosenblatt I could go on.... Great fighter but he was suspect

Norris was a spent force by the time he lost the title to Mullings, and went onto lose against Bouduani and Rosenblatt. It really isn't fair to use those fights as examples.

In his prime only punchers ever hurt him to any real degree. His chin was dodgy, but its fact that only genuine punchers ever really exploited it during his prime.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Not by me, it was competitive for a couple rounds and Floyd swept the second half at half speed. That's what I saw that night and my mind has never changed. I actually went back and watched it over because, to me, it gets closer every re-telling - 9-3 the night of the fight and 9-3 a couple years later. It wasn't overly impressive, but it was closer to toying with him than it was struggling.

That's just opinion, Norris definitively wouldn't have a size advantage.

Size wise, Norris wasn't heavy at 54. That is true.

But he was a very, very strong man and certainly he'd have enjoyed a big strength edge on Mayweather.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:That fight (Mayweather-De La Hoya) gets wider with every re-telling, IMO.

All of a sudden, Mayweather either: 1. gave Oscar the @$$ whipping of a lifetime or 2. Dominated Oscar easily without any trouble. 3. Floyd fanatics post the same clip of Oscar walking into a Mayweather right and say that Oscar was buckled and stunned which he wasn't at all. If I remember the fight correctly, a few times, Floyd struggled to land on Oscar also. One of the worst fights to judge Floyd by becuase if that was a measuring stick, Floyd would not pose any threat at all to Martinez and Cotto would definitely have a chance of staying competitive.

lurkyshaka wrote:

scallum wrote:Just saw video of Norris vs Walters not good for terry. Floyd owns The Norris in this fight. Terry was heck of wild n displayed no Defenses at all

Rather than looking at one of Terry's most sloppy performances as an indicator, instead take a gander at the way Norris totally nullified Simon Brown in their rematch once he'd learnt the error of just trying to blast everyone out.

When Norris was using his head, he was a beautiful boxer with so much speed and power at his disposal. He found problems when he forgot to set his attacks up behind his boxing ability, but when he took his time and let it flow he was clinical. Superb movement, jab, variety of attack and all backed with power, speed and formidable physical strength. His only weakness was a shaky chin and that only really mattered when he was up against genuine punchers, something that Floyd simply isn't.

If we going to use Terry's worst performance, it's only fair use Floyd's also. By Floyd's own admission (not mine) Agustus was his hardest opponent. I won't even discuss how Terry compares but Norris was clearly more dangerous than a lightweight named Castillo. And Floyd has NEVER faced that type of power and know how to use it from Corrales, Castillo, DLH, Mosley, Ortiz, or Cotto.

I remember reading in an early 90s Ring mag that Norris could bench a ridiculous amount for his bodyweight.

IKSRTFO wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:

scallum wrote:Just saw video of Norris vs Walters not good for terry. Floyd owns The Norris in this fight. Terry was heck of wild n displayed no Defenses at all

Rather than looking at one of Terry's most sloppy performances as an indicator, instead take a gander at the way Norris totally nullified Simon Brown in their rematch once he'd learnt the error of just trying to blast everyone out.

When Norris was using his head, he was a beautiful boxer with so much speed and power at his disposal. He found problems when he forgot to set his attacks up behind his boxing ability, but when he took his time and let it flow he was clinical. Superb movement, jab, variety of attack and all backed with power, speed and formidable physical strength. His only weakness was a shaky chin and that only really mattered when he was up against genuine punchers, something that Floyd simply isn't.

If we going to use Terry's worst performance, it's only fair use Floyd's also. By Floyd's own admission (not mine) Agustus was his hardest opponent. I won't even discuss how Terry compares but Norris was clearly more dangerous than a lightweight named Castillo. And Floyd has NEVER faced that type of power and know how to use it from Corrales, Castillo, DLH, Mosley, Ortiz, or Cotto.

Exactly....well put.

orbtastic wrote:I remember reading in an early 90s Ring mag that Norris could bench a ridiculous amount for his bodyweight.

Yeah that's true. Norris was well known to be a very strong man in terms of what he could lift, and obviously it didn't slow him down any in the ring cos he was clearly rapid in there. He was benching over 300 lbs during his prime years.

lurkyshaka wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Not by me, it was competitive for a couple rounds and Floyd swept the second half at half speed. That's what I saw that night and my mind has never changed. I actually went back and watched it over because, to me, it gets closer every re-telling - 9-3 the night of the fight and 9-3 a couple years later. It wasn't overly impressive, but it was closer to toying with him than it was struggling.

That's just opinion, Norris definitively wouldn't have a size advantage.

Size wise, Norris wasn't heavy at 54. That is true.

But he was a very, very strong man and certainly he'd have enjoyed a big strength edge on Mayweather.

He punched much harder, I don't know that he was any stronger.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Not by me, it was competitive for a couple rounds and Floyd swept the second half at half speed. That's what I saw that night and my mind has never changed. I actually went back and watched it over because, to me, it gets closer every re-telling - 9-3 the night of the fight and 9-3 a couple years later. It wasn't overly impressive, but it was closer to toying with him than it was struggling.

That's just opinion, Norris definitively wouldn't have a size advantage.

Size wise, Norris wasn't heavy at 54. That is true.

But he was a very, very strong man and certainly he'd have enjoyed a big strength edge on Mayweather.

He punched much harder, I don't know that he was any stronger.

Norris was pretty well known for being a beast in the gym, he benched over 300 lbs.....i don't think Floyd is anywhere near as strong as that in all honesty.

In the mid 80's there was still a debate as to the merits of weight training in boxing. Terry Norris showed that gaining strength didn't mean sacrificing speed. Norris was a real physical specimen; he would have been stronger than Floyd without a doubt.

This fight seems to be a great topic. I like the answers from the Norris point of view and Pretty Floyd's views. Very interesting.

I think Floyd might confuse Terrible Terry in a couple of rounds, but, the power of Terry is the main factor. I don't think Pretty Boy Floyd has ever fought somebody of Norris' power and caliber that could also match him with speed. Norris feasted in smaller men, and I think PBF was not exception here. Norris by late KO around the 10th in a very entertaining fight.

lurkyshaka wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote: Size wise, Norris wasn't heavy at 54. That is true.

But he was a very, very strong man and certainly he'd have enjoyed a big strength edge on Mayweather.

He punched much harder, I don't know that he was any stronger.

Norris was pretty well known for being a beast in the gym, he benched over 300 lbs.....i don't think Floyd is anywhere near as strong as that in all honesty.

Bench pressing isn't everything there is to strength, certainly not in regards to Boxing. I bet I can bench more than Vitali or Wlad and I couldn't come close to muscling them around in the ring. A lot of weight lifting is technique. If Norris was squating or dead lifting a huge number it would be more of an indicator.

palooka wrote:In the mid 80's there was still a debate as to the merits of weight training in boxing. Terry Norris showed that gaining strength didn't mean sacrificing speed. Norris was a real physical specimen; he would have been stronger than Floyd without a doubt.

People thought Corrales, Hatton, Oscar & Ortiz would be stronger than Floyd, until after he fought them. Not that it matters, Norris wouldn't be trying to push him around on the inside anyway. If he did, stronger or not, it would be a piss poor strategy.

Mentioning the likes of Corrales and Hatton is ridiculous, or a 35 year old semi retired Oscar de la Hoya. I simply cannot believe anyone buys into Mayweather's claims of greatness. Norris stepped into the ring with top class, dangerous men, Mayweather has steered around anyone that fits that description.

Trying to deny Norris's serious power advantage over Mayweather, or that it would be of any benefit to Norris, is pretty silly. Mayweather is outgunned in every department here.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

lurkyshaka wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
He punched much harder, I don't know that he was any stronger.

Norris was pretty well known for being a beast in the gym, he benched over 300 lbs.....i don't think Floyd is anywhere near as strong as that in all honesty.

Bench pressing isn't everything there is to strength, certainly not in regards to Boxing. I bet I can bench more than Vitali or Wlad and I couldn't come close to muscling them around in the ring. A lot of weight lifting is technique. If Norris was squating or dead lifting a huge number it would be more of an indicator.

Yes i understand that, I'm a personal trainer by trade so fully understand that a bench press is only one pointer and not the be all and end all of gauging strength.

But.....the bench press stats aren't the only indication that Norris was physically stronger than Floyd. That he was basically a career jnr-middle is another, and that we saw in many of his fights him being able to physically push people back to make room for his combinations is another. Clearly the evidence is there to see just how strong a fighter Norris was.

Norris was well know for being physically strong, its not something that Floyd is renowned for. Now while i don't doubt that Floyd is stronger than many would think, i don't think he's anywhere near as strong as Terry Norris was during his prime years. There is certainly NO indication that Floyd would have been the stronger man.

For anyone who believes Mayweather could have beaten Norris....
Could you outline how he'd have gone about it?

For my money Norris could have gone about beating Floyd either by using aggression and combinations to open Floyd up.....or by getting on his toes and using the jab and speed combinations off it. Most probably he'd have used a mixture of both tactics.

And Terry had the speed, variety and power to break down Floyd's guard in a manner thats been beyond anyone Floyd has ever faced thus far. Floyd has NEVER faced anyone with the offensive prowess of Norris. Even as slippery as Floyd is, avoiding Norris's punches would have been an almighty job given the rapidity and power that Norris had at his disposal.

And whilst bouncing up on his toes and using flicking jabs in between heavy blitz's, Norris would have been a horrible target for Floyd to try and get at. A stronger, more powerful man daring Floyd to reach for him.....

Frankly i just don't see a way Mayweather could overcome what Norris brought to the table, but i'm interested to hear a detailed breakdown of those who disagree?

Its a little bit like Mayweather against Hearns. Norris obviously wasnt that good, but hes still a nightmare here and Id comfortably favour him.

Norris is all kinds of wrong for smaller, defensive guys. Great as he was (greater than Mayweather), Whitaker would not have beaten Norris either.

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Its a little bit like Mayweather against Hearns. Norris obviously wasnt that good, but hes still a nightmare here and Id comfortably favour him.

Norris is all kinds of wrong for smaller, defensive guys. Great as he was (greater than Mayweather), Whitaker would not have beaten Norris either.

I agree....the thing with Norris was supreme gifts mixed with some glaring flaws.

But the flaws wouldn't enter into the equation against Mayweather or Sweet Pea.