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Re: james toney
Posted: 17 Apr 2012, 08:08
by jamesmcdonnell
Why oh why would anyone want to watch Toney taking more shots. He's already badly damaged - ive no interest in any of his further fights now the guy is going to end up a vegetable.
Re: james toney
Posted: 17 Apr 2012, 10:01
by Shirow
JDC wrote:What was his condition like in the last fight?
I know he put the weight back on, just wondering if it's all flab or not.
Looks like been mostly flab and a little water, he gained about 50lbs from weigh-in to weigh-in in 5 months.
Coco wrote:And he is naturally 11 odd stone fighting up at heavyweight.
He must have made some serious money, I wonder how he has spent it?
Burger King, Burger King, Burger King!
Re: james toney
Posted: 17 Apr 2012, 10:09
by keithmoonhangover
Maybe the slurring is something to do with the steriods.
Re: james toney
Posted: 17 Apr 2012, 13:15
by stevieb_8006
the prob is james doesnt believe in traditiona boxing training like working the heavy bag or running or jumping rope, he literally does three rounds of shadow, three rounds on the speed bag and then spars.
sparring as a way to get fit is a bad idea.
As for the slurring, hes always had a bit of a hard voice to decifer even as a middleweight so i think it sounds worse than it is (although yes, he obv a bit punchy).
I think that now hes actually a lot more effective at heavy than at cruiser, just think hes drained and weak trying to lose the weight. hes too old and left it too late.
I'd still watch toney vs jones jnr 2.
Re: james toney
Posted: 17 Apr 2012, 16:51
by kells
yer he did damage his leg in that fight,think he had an operation on it??
Re: james toney
Posted: 17 Apr 2012, 19:09
by jamesmcdonnell
King Geedorah wrote:DaveBoyMorrison wrote:King Geedorah wrote:
No, I'd still like to see it. Surely life isn't so boring and sad as to make you spend your time discussing a Toney-Chisora farce rather than ignoring it?
We bring enough no-name European scrubs over here so why not a certified legend even if he is past his best?
That old chestnut....
What's the attraction to watching someone with mental illness fight a man in the prime of his life?
Did you enjoy Ali v Holmes?
I don't think he has a mental illness. I certainly don't think slurring during an interview is a sign that he needs the men in white coats coming around to his house. Unless the laws on sectioning people are different in the U.S.A.
As for Holmes-Ali. The two scenarios are different. Toney is still fairly active. Ali came from a two-year gap and took on arguably the best fighter in the world. Chisora, as far as I see it, is not the best fighter in the world, prime of his life or not (I'd say not as he has only looked good in one of his last four fights) he is not Holmes and I daresay a fight with Toney would be slightly more competitive.
To labour the Holmes-Ali comparison, Toney to my knowledge has not taken an excessive amount of diet pills in a vain attempt to look how he did in his prime, nor does he have a dodgy doctor in tow. As I said, Chisora is not 35-0, he is not Larry Holmes and I haven't seen it yet as it wasn't recorded, but I believe Toney fought recently so he's active.
So it is a facile analogy. Ironically, Holyfield-Toney may have been a better one to use, if it wasn't for the fact that Holyfield went on to have a legitimate shout for winning another title after the Valuev fight.
Pressure fighters get their brains bashed in fight after fight, we don't call for them to retire for fear of how their brain is doing. We let guys have their brains bashed in year in and year out then want them to duck out before we start to squirm in our seats a little. If Toney was a journeyman such as Paul Samuel no one on here would give a damn if he was slurring, stumbling and walking on his heels.
Your argument is pretty much, "I don't like hearing Toney slur, it makes me feel uncomfortable". The solution? Don't watch his fights and interviews.
Didn't he injure his knee or ankle early doors against Lebedev and found it tough to move?
Don't forget that Toney participated in an interview where he revealed that he had damaged the pituatary gland, which is located at the base of the brain. This is a gland which is responsible for several key hormones secretion including HGH and Testosterone. This coupled with the terrible slurring, which has without a doubt deteriorated significantly, and the fact that he is not in good physical condition for the sport he is involved in, is old, and is competing against much younger and fitter men, is an accident waiting to happen.
I wonder when the last time a thorough MRI was performed on him, because i find it hard to believe he has not got telltale signs of brain damage.
Toney v Jones Jr would be truly sad to watch. I'd pick Roy as he is much fitter than Toney, but one shot would probably put him to sleep if Toney connected with a flush punch.
Re: james toney
Posted: 18 Apr 2012, 05:59
by Tomasino
milpool wrote:Has Toney got a mental illness? He might be deluded but I wouldn't say he's got a mental illness.
He is shot to bits and suffering some sort of brain damage or mental illness. I am not in a position to know which.
I find it disgusting folk want to see him take some more damage from good class, prime fighters and are willing to write a lot of pish to justify this desire.
I will bow out here.
Re: james toney
Posted: 18 Apr 2012, 07:13
by keithmoonhangover
Our sport, is such a dangerous sport, where people lives are on the line every time they step in the ring. Anyone that has an unfair advantage - tampered gloves, performance enhancing drugs etc - are putting the opponenets life in a lot more danger.
Toney is a proven drugs cheat, yet people still idol worship him - I find the whole thing disgusting.
Re: james toney
Posted: 18 Apr 2012, 12:29
by jamesmcdonnell
To be fair to Toney, the drug he was prescribed, was given by a physician to counter the fact that his serum levels of testosterone and HGH were chronically low due to the damage to the pituitary gland.
Re: james toney
Posted: 18 Apr 2012, 14:54
by keithmoonhangover
jamesmcdonnell wrote:To be fair to Toney, the drug he was prescribed, was given by a physician to counter the fact that his serum levels of testosterone and HGH were chronically low due to the damage to the pituitary gland.
He tested positive for Stanozolol against Ruiz, which is the same drug that Ben Johnson in order to help him win the Olympic 100m race. Toney never produced a single scrap of evidence to back up his claim to the New York Athletic Commission.
Re: james toney
Posted: 18 Apr 2012, 16:04
by jamesmcdonnell
King Geedorah wrote:Should he retire? Yep. Will he? Probably not. Would I still watch him fight? Yes, he is James Toney.
But I hear and respect Davey's opinion.
When Toney retires my childhood is officially over, so I may be speaking from a flawed position here
It's akin to watching a snuff movie, is it fascinating, possibly, but why do it?
Re: james toney
Posted: 18 Apr 2012, 16:05
by jamesmcdonnell
King Geedorah wrote:Should he retire? Yep. Will he? Probably not. Would I still watch him fight? Yes, he is James Toney.
But I hear and respect Davey's opinion.
When Toney retires my childhood is officially over, so I may be speaking from a flawed position here
I've seen your facebook pictures, it's already over.
Re: james toney
Posted: 20 Apr 2012, 21:08
by Tomasino
King Geedorah wrote:Should he retire? Yep. Will he? Probably not. Would I still watch him fight? Yes, he is James Toney.
But I hear and respect Davey's opinion.
When Toney retires my childhood is officially over, so I may be speaking from a flawed position here
Re: james toney
Posted: 21 Apr 2012, 03:53
by loaded_gloves
Sadly, James Toney owes 300K+ in California back taxes. This is official.
Re: james toney
Posted: 22 Apr 2012, 13:04
by fasteddie
he never punched a bag all he done was sparr so he probably got abit slurred speech off this,plus he went threw the weights and when you are heavyweight and cruiser you can be as effective with the defensive skills and attacking skills like he was at middle imo of course,he has the ability to take some serious shots too
Re: james toney
Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 11:35
by Bricks
kells wrote:how is a boxer that is known for his defensive skills-slipping punches etc end up slurring so bad?? did he rely get hit that much???
Well he's still fighting at 43, and he has spent the last 10 years fighting at a fairly busy schedule at HW when he made his name at 160lbs!!!! Doesnt matter how much of a defensive expert you are when you fight that long and have as many fights as Toney had, and against as many far far bigger men as he has well it is a damn good show slightly slurred speech is all he has to show for it.
He didnt get hit that much in relative terms but when you fight as many high quality operators as he has, have as many fights, and at such an unnatural weight so physically disadvantaged as u are......it will happen.
Re: james toney
Posted: 25 Apr 2012, 19:02
by matko
mugabi wrote:kells wrote:how is a boxer that is known for his defensive skills-slipping punches etc end up slurring so bad?? did he rely get hit that much???
Well he's still fighting at 43, and he has spent the last 10 years fighting at a fairly busy schedule at HW when he made his name at 160lbs!!!! Doesnt matter how much of a defensive expert you are when you fight that long and have as many fights as Toney had, and against as many far far bigger men as he has well it is a damn good show slightly slurred speech is all he has to show for it.
He didnt get hit that much in relative terms but when you fight as many high quality operators as he has, have as many fights, and at such an unnatural weight so physically disadvantaged as u are......it will happen.
He wasnt hit flush millions of times in his fights, just its a great number when you add all the times fights, sparring etc and many of the shots in the early years. Even some (Not as many now due to reflexes slowing) now dont land flush as he rides plenty of shots, but he always sparred to keep fit like everyone said.
Alot of the damage can be done from rabbit punches from frustrated fighters who cant hit the target becoming frustrated so when up close tend to do this like in Ali's career for example against chuck wepner who seemed to only land this punch in the entire fight.
Re: james toney
Posted: 26 Apr 2012, 13:05
by Bricks
Spot on matko. Even things like kidney shots shots on the arms etc all take their toll over a period.