BoxRec

Who knows, but he could have come unstuck eventually against a few fighters. He was a huge middleweight/super middleweight, but he was slightly technically limited and relied on his size as well as his power to win fights. He would definitely have built a stellar resume over time though, and imo would have been a HOF'er.

BarryWashington wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: Fixed for you.

And for your information.

Benn was NOT helped back in the ring.

He was back in the ring after 8 seconds.

Check your facts smart arse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMr24cH- ... re=related 19:33

If he wasn't helped in the ring, then why is it that the guy who did it admitted it? (You can find it on YouTube - old clip, four parts, talks about the night of the fight.)

The fact that you're going to this far to say that Benn FAIRLY beat G-Man is beyond lunacy and fandom. I can't imagine if you were in Gerald's position if you would say how "fair" that was. I stopped posted in this thread because your opinions are worth shit and I'm not gonna waste the time in my life arguing with someone who actually posts what you do on the subject of fairness and style match-ups.

Holla

I've posted the link for of the fight for you and the time, watch it and come back when you know what you're talking about.

BarryWashington wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: Fixed for you.

And for your information.

Benn was NOT helped back in the ring.

He was back in the ring after 8 seconds.

Check your facts smart arse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMr24cH- ... re=related 19:33

If he wasn't helped in the ring, then why is it that the guy who did it admitted it? (You can find it on YouTube - old clip, four parts, talks about the night of the fight.)

The fact that you're going to this far to say that Benn FAIRLY beat G-Man is beyond lunacy and fandom. I can't imagine if you were in Gerald's position if you would say how "fair" that was. I stopped posted in this thread because your opinions are worth shit and I'm not gonna waste the time in my life arguing with someone who actually posts what you do on the subject of fairness and style match-ups.

Holla

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMr24cH- ... re=related 19:33

Have you watched the what actually happened yet Mr Washington? No one helps Benn, not a single person.

BarryWashington wrote:

Livingstone Cole wrote:Benn wasn't helped back into the ring at all. Someone held the palm of their hand out to stop Benn cracking his head on the desk as he fell out of the ring. There wasn't any help involved. He was on his feet before 10 seconds, and back in the ring before 20, which I believe is the rules.

Say all you want about the referee fecking everything else up, holding Gerald back and not warning Benn for rough tactics and you'll have a point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNjoM63rJ3I

Skip to 2:23 - and then come back and say that one more time.

Watch the full clip at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMr24cH- ... re=related 19:33

They protect Benn's head but nothiong more.

BarryWashington wrote:

Livingstone Cole wrote:Benn wasn't helped back into the ring at all. Someone held the palm of their hand out to stop Benn cracking his head on the desk as he fell out of the ring. There wasn't any help involved. He was on his feet before 10 seconds, and back in the ring before 20, which I believe is the rules.

Say all you want about the referee fecking everything else up, holding Gerald back and not warning Benn for rough tactics and you'll have a point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNjoM63rJ3I

Skip to 2:23 - and then come back and say that one more time.

One of the most persistent myths in boxing. I've never figured out why Newbon keeps saying he helped Benn back into the ring when you can clearly see from the video it never happened.

J-C wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:

Livingstone Cole wrote:Benn wasn't helped back into the ring at all. Someone held the palm of their hand out to stop Benn cracking his head on the desk as he fell out of the ring. There wasn't any help involved. He was on his feet before 10 seconds, and back in the ring before 20, which I believe is the rules.

Say all you want about the referee fecking everything else up, holding Gerald back and not warning Benn for rough tactics and you'll have a point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNjoM63rJ3I

Skip to 2:23 - and then come back and say that one more time.

One of the most persistent myths in boxing. I've never figured out why Newbon keeps saying he helped Benn back into the ring when you can clearly see from the video it never happened.

I think he just feels a little bit guilty about it.

Though protecting Benn's head was the noble (and right) thing to do, it quite possibly changed the equation as to just WHO might have walked away with the more serious injury. And WHEN the fight might have ended. I'm not sure the WHAT of protecting Benn's head is different from helping him back in the ring. If his head was not protected...would he have returned on his own steam? Just a nuance I'm not quite comfortable with from the Benn side of this discussion.

McClellan was not allowed (to use a golf analogy) "Hit the ball from where it lies". Did it change the outcome? Who knows.

But neither are "all time greats" IMHO.

BoxBuzz wrote:Though protecting Benn's head was the noble (and right) thing to do, it quite possibly changed the equation as to just WHO might have walked away with the more serious injury. And WHEN the fight might have ended. I'm not sure the WHAT of protecting Benn's head is different from helping him back in the ring. If his head was not protected...would he have returned on his own steam? Just a nuance I'm not quite comfortable with from the Benn side of this discussion.

McClellan was not allowed (to use a golf analogy) "Hit the ball from where it lies". Did it change the outcome? Who knows.

But neither are "all time greats" IMHO.

Have you watched the full clip? No one actually helps Benn in any way.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Though protecting Benn's head was the noble (and right) thing to do, it quite possibly changed the equation as to just WHO might have walked away with the more serious injury. And WHEN the fight might have ended. I'm not sure the WHAT of protecting Benn's head is different from helping him back in the ring. If his head was not protected...would he have returned on his own steam? Just a nuance I'm not quite comfortable with from the Benn side of this discussion.

McClellan was not allowed (to use a golf analogy) "Hit the ball from where it lies". Did it change the outcome? Who knows.

But neither are "all time greats" IMHO.

Have you watched the full clip? No one actually helps Benn in any way.

Even if Benn had been "helped," so long as it was by a member of the audience (and not a member of his team), what could even have been done about it? You can't penalize Benn for that; he's not responsible for a member of the crowd (or even a member of the press).
Now, Asaro's actions once he got back in the ring...

Keith....happy to look again, thought I saw some "hands on" .....however if you say it aint so.....

Rover wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:Though protecting Benn's head was the noble (and right) thing to do, it quite possibly changed the equation as to just WHO might have walked away with the more serious injury. And WHEN the fight might have ended. I'm not sure the WHAT of protecting Benn's head is different from helping him back in the ring. If his head was not protected...would he have returned on his own steam? Just a nuance I'm not quite comfortable with from the Benn side of this discussion.

McClellan was not allowed (to use a golf analogy) "Hit the ball from where it lies". Did it change the outcome? Who knows.

But neither are "all time greats" IMHO.

Have you watched the full clip? No one actually helps Benn in any way.

Even if Benn had been "helped," so long as it was by a member of the audience (and not a member of his team), what could even have been done about it? You can't penalize Benn for that; he's not responsible for a member of the crowd (or even a member of the press).
Now, Asaro's actions once he got back in the ring...

Yep, as far as the rules of the game...I'm on board with this statement.

BarryWashington wrote:

Livingstone Cole wrote:Benn wasn't helped back into the ring at all. Someone held the palm of their hand out to stop Benn cracking his head on the desk as he fell out of the ring. There wasn't any help involved. He was on his feet before 10 seconds, and back in the ring before 20, which I believe is the rules.

Say all you want about the referee fecking everything else up, holding Gerald back and not warning Benn for rough tactics and you'll have a point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNjoM63rJ3I

Skip to 2:23 - and then come back and say that one more time.

This is the WBO rule on the subject.

9. A boxer shall receive a twenty (20) second count if the boxer is knocked out of the ring and onto the floor. The boxer is to be unassisted by spectators or his/her seconds. If assisted by anyone, the boxer may lose points or be disqualified with such a decision being within the sole discretion of the referee.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:

Livingstone Cole wrote:Benn wasn't helped back into the ring at all. Someone held the palm of their hand out to stop Benn cracking his head on the desk as he fell out of the ring. There wasn't any help involved. He was on his feet before 10 seconds, and back in the ring before 20, which I believe is the rules.

Say all you want about the referee fecking everything else up, holding Gerald back and not warning Benn for rough tactics and you'll have a point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNjoM63rJ3I

Skip to 2:23 - and then come back and say that one more time.

This is the WBO rule on the subject.

9. A boxer shall receive a twenty (20) second count if the boxer is knocked out of the ring and onto the floor. The boxer is to be unassisted by spectators or his/her seconds. If assisted by anyone, the boxer may lose points or be disqualified with such a decision being within the sole discretion of the referee.

OK...I see somethin' comin' here. How long will it be before a fighter in trouble feign's his way out of the ropes and takes a 20 second break? lol. ...It's Chico and the Gumshield II.....coming to a boxing ring near you....very soon. Or has it already happened?

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:

Livingstone Cole wrote:Benn wasn't helped back into the ring at all. Someone held the palm of their hand out to stop Benn cracking his head on the desk as he fell out of the ring. There wasn't any help involved. He was on his feet before 10 seconds, and back in the ring before 20, which I believe is the rules.

Say all you want about the referee fecking everything else up, holding Gerald back and not warning Benn for rough tactics and you'll have a point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNjoM63rJ3I

Skip to 2:23 - and then come back and say that one more time.

This is the WBO rule on the subject.

9. A boxer shall receive a twenty (20) second count if the boxer is knocked out of the ring and onto the floor. The boxer is to be unassisted by spectators or his/her seconds. If assisted by anyone, the boxer may lose points or be disqualified with such a decision being within the sole discretion of the referee.

Benn-McClellan was a WBC fight, right?
I don't think the WBO rule is fair. If a fighter's seconds try to help him, I agree he should be disqualified instantly. With spectators, though, I have a huge problem there. A fighter should be responsible for the actions of his people; "captain of the ship."" But spectators? Sorry, but I don't want a fighter's record tarnished because of some twit in the crowd.

Rover wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNjoM63rJ3I

Skip to 2:23 - and then come back and say that one more time.

This is the WBO rule on the subject.

9. A boxer shall receive a twenty (20) second count if the boxer is knocked out of the ring and onto the floor. The boxer is to be unassisted by spectators or his/her seconds. If assisted by anyone, the boxer may lose points or be disqualified with such a decision being within the sole discretion of the referee.

Benn-McClellan was a WBC fight, right?
I don't think the WBO rule is fair. If a fighter's seconds try to help him, I agree he should be disqualified instantly. With spectators, though, I have a huge problem there. A fighter should be responsible for the actions of his people; "captain of the ship."" But spectators? Sorry, but I don't want a fighter's record tarnished because of some twit in the crowd.

Its very much a catch-22 with no easy answer, but I ultimately disagree with you. Your last line stands out to me. Dont you find it quite plausible a spectator could contribute to tarnishing the record of the boxer who has cleared the ring of his rival? The downed boxer may not be at fault, so I would be sympathetic, but its no fairer to allow a throng of supporters to assist in preventing a KO or hampering an advantage the aggressor has worked to create.

Imagine it were a Rugby Union/League/Grid Iron match, and a player had an open line for a try/touchdown but was tackled by an intervening spectator. That is in no way the defensive teams fault, but its still an advantage unreasonable, and in good conscience, the ref would have to award a try/touchdown.

Im sympathetic to your view, its a terrible shame for a boxer to lose a match like that, but if six or seven guys got together and pushed or helped him right back in there, he's received a clear unfair advantage. Better to penalise him than the guy who is being disadvantaged, if neither boxer has done anything wrong.

Rover wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNjoM63rJ3I

Skip to 2:23 - and then come back and say that one more time.

This is the WBO rule on the subject.

9. A boxer shall receive a twenty (20) second count if the boxer is knocked out of the ring and onto the floor. The boxer is to be unassisted by spectators or his/her seconds. If assisted by anyone, the boxer may lose points or be disqualified with such a decision being within the sole discretion of the referee.

Benn-McClellan was a WBC fight, right?
I don't think the WBO rule is fair. If a fighter's seconds try to help him, I agree he should be disqualified instantly. With spectators, though, I have a huge problem there. A fighter should be responsible for the actions of his people; "captain of the ship."" But spectators? Sorry, but I don't want a fighter's record tarnished because of some twit in the crowd.

20 seconds is WBC as well.

http://www.wbcboxing.com/downloads/RULE ... %20094.pdf

Dogs = Man's best friend.

Nigel Benn = Dog's best friend.

Smoger!? Jesus, in his prime, he'd have encouraged McClellan to punch Benn while he was down.

Smoger loved punchers like a mother loves her first-born.

BarryWashington wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:Dogs = Man's best friend.

Nigel Benn = Dog's best friend.

Fucked up hahahaha.

You ever imagine what Benn describes? About he felt the ligaments of his neck being strecthed? Shits scary and comes off as the literal action of punching someone's head off their shoulders.

I always wish I could have seen how that fight played out if Smoger/Bayless/Lane/etc. was the ref.

I guess it gave PETA a "red rocket"

I notice how you just side stepped the whole not being heloped back into the ring and being allowed 20 seconds to do so. Or are you not man enough to admit when your wrong?

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Rover wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote: This is the WBO rule on the subject.

9. A boxer shall receive a twenty (20) second count if the boxer is knocked out of the ring and onto the floor. The boxer is to be unassisted by spectators or his/her seconds. If assisted by anyone, the boxer may lose points or be disqualified with such a decision being within the sole discretion of the referee.

Benn-McClellan was a WBC fight, right?
I don't think the WBO rule is fair. If a fighter's seconds try to help him, I agree he should be disqualified instantly. With spectators, though, I have a huge problem there. A fighter should be responsible for the actions of his people; "captain of the ship."" But spectators? Sorry, but I don't want a fighter's record tarnished because of some twit in the crowd.

Its very much a catch-22 with no easy answer, but I ultimately disagree with you. Your last line stands out to me. Dont you find it quite plausible a spectator could contribute to tarnishing the record of the boxer who has cleared the ring of his rival? The downed boxer may not be at fault, so I would be sympathetic, but its no fairer to allow a throng of supporters to assist in preventing a KO or hampering an advantage the aggressor has worked to create.

Imagine it were a Rugby Union/League/Grid Iron match, and a player had an open line for a try/touchdown but was tackled by an intervening spectator. That is in no way the defensive teams fault, but its still an advantage unreasonable, and in good conscience, the ref would have to award a try/touchdown.

Im sympathetic to your view, its a terrible shame for a boxer to lose a match like that, but if six or seven guys got together and pushed or helped him right back in there, he's received a clear unfair advantage. Better to penalise him than the guy who is being disadvantaged, if neither boxer has done anything wrong.

Just call it a NC. It's different with sports (such as MLB) where the home team is responsible for what its fans do in its park; it even can be forced to forfeit games due to fan misbehavior, such as Bill Veck's infamous Disco Demolition Night. Boxing is a wholly different entity. I'd compare it to a cornerman's attacking one boxer and severely injuring him (resulting in the DQ'ing of that cornerman's fighter) v. a spectator's doing that. A NC would split the difference; nobody's record would really be tarnished there.

Rover wrote:

Goodnight, Irene wrote:

Rover wrote: Benn-McClellan was a WBC fight, right?
I don't think the WBO rule is fair. If a fighter's seconds try to help him, I agree he should be disqualified instantly. With spectators, though, I have a huge problem there. A fighter should be responsible for the actions of his people; "captain of the ship."" But spectators? Sorry, but I don't want a fighter's record tarnished because of some twit in the crowd.

Its very much a catch-22 with no easy answer, but I ultimately disagree with you. Your last line stands out to me. Dont you find it quite plausible a spectator could contribute to tarnishing the record of the boxer who has cleared the ring of his rival? The downed boxer may not be at fault, so I would be sympathetic, but its no fairer to allow a throng of supporters to assist in preventing a KO or hampering an advantage the aggressor has worked to create.

Imagine it were a Rugby Union/League/Grid Iron match, and a player had an open line for a try/touchdown but was tackled by an intervening spectator. That is in no way the defensive teams fault, but its still an advantage unreasonable, and in good conscience, the ref would have to award a try/touchdown.

Im sympathetic to your view, its a terrible shame for a boxer to lose a match like that, but if six or seven guys got together and pushed or helped him right back in there, he's received a clear unfair advantage. Better to penalise him than the guy who is being disadvantaged, if neither boxer has done anything wrong.

Just call it a NC. It's different with sports (such as MLB) where the home team is responsible for what its fans do in its park; it even can be forced to forfeit games due to fan misbehavior, such as Bill Veck's infamous Disco Demolition Night. Boxing is a wholly different entity. I'd compare it to a cornerman's attacking one boxer and severely injuring him (resulting in the DQ'ing of that cornerman's fighter) v. a spectator's doing that. A NC would split the difference; nobody's record would really be tarnished there.

Yeah, an NC I could live with.