BELLEW LEAVES WARREN

[cockneygymrat]

FW has rarely lost a court case.

Interesting to see what happens.

[Rumpole]

Why am I out of order ?
I am simply stating things from my own experience.
If you read my earlier posts I have said that unless you have all the facts then no one can state specifically what the situation is.
Was I aware of the basis of Tony's contract before your post ?
No.
Now that you are clarifying that the contract is not on a form 35 basis then it takes on a different light.
For the avoidance of any doubt whatsoever, do not assume I am backing Oh Worthy One's position in this.
Nothing would pleae me more to see Tony fighting under a Promotional banner that gives him full exposure, and fighting on a regular basis (this being probably the most important thing).
I assumed that Oh Worthy One was also Tony's manager.
Is it the case that he is/was just Tony's Promotor ?

He was Tony's manager and promoter. As you may be aware, the FWP contract runs to some 12 pages which takes complete control of a Boxer's body mind and soul if not challenged and amended by a decent lawyer or manager. However, it is a contract by an organisation having no affiliation or connection with the BBBoC and therefore they will not get involved in any disputes between a Boxer and Bunny's company.

As you are also aware, a Boxer cannot take part in any contest sanctioned by the BBBoC unless he has signed a Boxer/Manager Agreement on the Board's official form 36A, so this does come under the control of the Board. However, the determination clause is a totally separate clause from the disputes clause and I would doubt that the Board would wish to interefere. In any event, even if they did, they have no power to overule the Courts of the land and therefore could never tell a Boxer that they can't end the contract or that the Boxer must continue to fight under the management of a particular manager if all trust and confidence had broken down.

What the issues are between the parties may never be published but if Bunny decides to take the matter to the Courts, everything will be revealed.

By the way, I'm not having a go at you, I find your post very good, as a rule. I am merely trying to shed some light on the legal position of Boxers, Managers and Promotional Companies. I am not aware of any Promotional Company, including Matchroom that hold a Licence from the Board to actually promote contests.

[NazNaci1]

Just asking, is W@rren not both the Promoter and Manager of his fighters? Is that not a conflict of interest? Or does he have someone else, in name only, who is allegedly one or the other? I will say this, W@rren knows his way around loopholes and looks to excercise them at every turn. A smart, wealthy man, for sure.

[bripez]

FW has rarely lost a court case.

And even when he doesn't win he doesn't actually lose - remember the Joe Calzaghe case?

[NazNaci1]

Well DK took him to the cleaners. He lost big in that one but I agree, he doesn't lose many.

[bripez]

As you may be aware, the FWP contract runs to some 12 pages which takes complete control of a Boxer's body mind and soul if not challenged and amended by a decent lawyer or manager.

Maybe so, but it is also a contract the Bellew was happy to sign of his own free will.

[Rumpole]

FW has rarely lost a court case.

And even when he doesn't win he doesn't actually lose - remember the Joe Calzaghe case?

True up to a point, but; in this case it is Bunny the man who is the Manager and if his company goes "tits up" it cannot continue with an Action against Tony. Always assuming of course that he wants to start one in the first place.

[twenty six]

Rumpole,
Thanks for confirming you're not having a personal dig at me
As I said earlier this particular scenario I lived and breathed for an extensive period.
It is not for me to teach anyone to suck eggs - and clearly you've done your research.
Hope it goes well seriously - but my experiences with the Board regarding the Management contract are that they will intervene at the request of Oh Worthy One.
You are right in saying that the Board are not a legal entity and remedy can be sought in the civil courts but sometimes a mathematical equation has to be considered.
By that I mean costs - particularly if you get dragged into a protracted case in the civil courts.
Clearly Tony has got good backing on this occasion so good luck team Bellew.

[damianhucker1]

So.....
If ive understood this thread correctly , then allegedly has his fighters sign an addition contract with his company as well as the standard board promotor contract ....

All very interesting , it would be good to see what one of these contracts look like (financial values/names are un needed , just a blank contract )

I would assume all is the same values as on the board contract , ie monies and contract length etc with additional stipulations not included in the board contract .

Would this be standard procedure for all the big promotions such as matchroom as well ?

[Adamj1987]

So.....
If ive understood this thread correctly , then allegedly has his fighters sign an addition contract with his company as well as the standard board promotor contract ....

All very interesting , it would be good to see what one of these contracts look like (financial values/names are un needed , just a blank contract )

I would assume all is the same values as on the board contract , ie monies and contract length etc with additional stipulations not included in the board contract .

Would this be standard procedure for all the big promotions such as matchroom as well ?

would it not be a seperate contact for manager and one promoter as he acts as both for alot of his boxers?

[damianhucker1]

So.....
If ive understood this thread correctly , then allegedly has his fighters sign an addition contract with his company as well as the standard board promotor contract ....

All very interesting , it would be good to see what one of these contracts look like (financial values/names are un needed , just a blank contract )

I would assume all is the same values as on the board contract , ie monies and contract length etc with additional stipulations not included in the board contract .

Would this be standard procedure for all the big promotions such as matchroom as well ?

would it not be a seperate contact for manager and one promoter as he acts as both for alot of his boxers?

Yes of course it would , but from what i reading it seems theres an additional contract with the Promotional company in this instance , unlesss ive misunderstood .

[Rumpole]

So.....
If ive understood this thread correctly , then allegedly has his fighters sign an addition contract with his company as well as the standard board promotor contract ....

All very interesting , it would be good to see what one of these contracts look like (financial values/names are un needed , just a blank contract )

I would assume all is the same values as on the board contract , ie monies and contract length etc with additional stipulations not included in the board contract .

Would this be standard procedure for all the big promotions such as matchroom as well ?

You haven't understood correctly.

There IS NO BOARD PROMOTIONAL CONTRACT. There cannot be a Board contract between a person holding a licence, Tony Bellew and a party NOT holding a licence, Bunny's company FWP. A limited company, is a totally separate legal entity from Mr. Bunny, with NO connection or affiliation to the Board whatsoever. Don't be fooled by the words Promotional Company. FWP purport to promote the interests of the Boxer they are not, like Sports Network before it, holders of a licence issued by the Board to PROMOTE CONTESTS.

Unfortunately Bunny's Promotional Contracts contain a confidentiality clause but someone may be prepared to post a blank one, but not me.

[twenty six]

Rumpole,
On the Management side, I think it's with Oh Worthy One, the individual, who is licensed by the Board.
Could it be that the Management Contract, not the Promotional Contract, will be the hurdle to get over ?

[Rumpole]

The Promotional Contract used by allegedly Promotions Limited (FWP) is not the BBBoC official Promoter/Boxer Contract (Form 35). This contract is used by a Promoter licenced by the Board to promote Contests and Tournaments.

FWP are a private limited company and DO NOT have a licence from the Board to promote anything. The licenced Promoter who uses/pays FWP to do the actual work is Mr. allegedly, who at law, is a totally separate legal entity and if you go to any event organised by allegedly you will see his licence displayed, as is required by the Rules and Regulations of the Board, above the ticket office not FWP.

The Board has no say or influence over contracts made with third parties but you would be correct if the contract was with a licenced Promoter on a BBBoC Form 35.

Regulation 13.1 of the BBBoC approved Boxer/Manager Agreement states, "The Boxer or the Manager may determine this Agreement by notice in writing if the other party:
13.1(i) Is guilty of any serious breach of his obligation under it; or

This regulation is totally separate from the arbitration clause which deals with resolution of disputes between the parties by arbitration by the Board.

In any event Regulation 17 states “This Agreement shall be governed by and construed in accordance with English Law” and redress to which a party may feel entitled should be determined by the Courts.

And further, for your information, the leading authority on contracts which involve the exercise of a special skill or talent and a high degree of mutual trust is, Warren v Mendy. [1989] 3 All ER 103. A case which was decided in the Court of Appeal before Purchas, Nourse and Stuart-Smith LJJ (LJJ means Lords Justices) on the 14 February 1989.

The ratio decidendi in this case established that no person involved in such proceedings could be ordered to carry out specific performance of the contract. Any remedy for wrongful breach therefore, in the event that the contract was determined by the Court to have been wrongfully repudiated, lies in damages only.

In plain English, even if a Boxer is determined by the Court to have wrongfully repudiated a contract, he WILL NOT be made to continue with that contract. Therefore he is a free agent.

Does this help to clear things up?

So just to clarify for the hard of thinking (me), in your professional opinion, the worst case scenario for Bellew is that he would have to pay damages to FWP? There's no scope for his in-ring career progression to be retarded i.e. he can still box who he wants, when he wants, where he wants - providing the fights can be made, of course?

Correct.

Tony is a free Agent.

If Bunny feels that the Management Contract, or his company FWP feels that the Promotional Contract has been wrongfully repudiated (ended) by Tony, they can each bring an Action for damages against Tony. But they will be two separate Actions. as Bunny and the limited company are 2 separate legal entities.

[Rumpole]

Rumpole,
On the Management side, I think it's with Oh Worthy One, the individual, who is licensed by the Board.
Could it be that the Management Contract, not the Promotional Contract, will be the hurdle to get over ?

Forgive me 26 but I can't comment on that one.

General principals of law I can answer but opinions on the merits of this case are off limits.

[twenty six]

Rumpole,
Is Tony going to be self managed assuming the contract with OWW is deemed at an end ?

[damianhucker1]

So.....
If ive understood this thread correctly , then allegedly has his fighters sign an addition contract with his company as well as the standard board promotor contract ....

All very interesting , it would be good to see what one of these contracts look like (financial values/names are un needed , just a blank contract )

I would assume all is the same values as on the board contract , ie monies and contract length etc with additional stipulations not included in the board contract .

Would this be standard procedure for all the big promotions such as matchroom as well ?

You haven't understood correctly.

There IS NO BOARD PROMOTIONAL CONTRACT. There cannot be a Board contract between a person holding a licence, Tony Bellew and a party NOT holding a licence, Bunny's company FWP. A limited company, is a totally separate legal entity from Mr. Bunny, with NO connection or affiliation to the Board whatsoever. Don't be fooled by the words Promotional Company. FWP purport to promote the interests of the Boxer they are not, like Sports Network before it, holders of a licence issued by the Board to PROMOTE CONTESTS.

Unfortunately Bunny's Promotional Contracts contain a confidentiality clause but someone may be prepared to post a blank one, but not me.

??? ok , so now im a bit puzzled , let me get this straight, So Obviously theres a management contract , and then theres this contract you speak of between Bellew and FWP , so theres no Promotion contract between MR allegedly and Bellew ???

So basically the contract must read that he still has to box on shows promoted by Allegedly , but as a promotor himself he has no promotional contracts to the boxers, im guessing this is where things can get ugly , such as not paying a boxer etc as the board cant sanction the promotor when the contract is with the company , but then surely if the company goes bust the company owner is liable ..... Unless its a limited company of course , in which case the owners/Directors only lose anything theyve invested into the company

[twenty six]

Rumpole - posted that before I'd seen your last response.
Maybe I can go through my experiences with you - but not on here !
As I said earlier, hope everything goes well for team Bellew.

[twenty six]

Macho,
You're not as dumb as you make out mate !!!!!!!!

[bripez]

??? ok , so now im a bit puzzled , let me get this straight, So Obviously theres a management contract , and then theres this contract you speak of between Bellew and FWP , so theres no Promotion contract between MR allegedly and Bellew ???

I might be wrong but .............

It sounds as though there are 2 contracts - a promotional contract and a management contract.

Tony Bellew has one contract with F W_rren
Tony Bellew has another contract with FW Promotions (a limited company)

Although we all know that F W_rren and FWP are one and the same, legally speaking they are 2 seperate legal entities.


The press release says that Bellew believes that he has ended the promotional contract with FW Promotions, but it does not mention his management contract with F W_rren.

According the same article, F W_rren believes that Tony Bellew is still contracted to both F W_rren and FW Promotions.

[twenty six]

That's a reasonable summary my friend.

[damianhucker1]

So at least for allegedly if all went tits up , he would lose FWP as a business but would still be a licensed promotor .

What im a bit puzzled by now though is that allegedly will be listed as a director of FWP surely , so if hes listed as a director and also contracted as Bellews manager , surely it can be argued as a conflict of interest as there must have been cause to break the FWP contract in Bellews view , so maybe the same arguement and throwing in the conflict of interest into it could get the Management contract done with too , Assuming allegedly is actually listed as a director .

[twenty six]

Every case is taken on its merits mate.
As we don't know the basis (quite rightly) of Tony's case then everything else is pure speculation.

[Rumpole]

So.....
If ive understood this thread correctly , then allegedly has his fighters sign an addition contract with his company as well as the standard board promotor contract ....

All very interesting , it would be good to see what one of these contracts look like (financial values/names are un needed , just a blank contract )

I would assume all is the same values as on the board contract , ie monies and contract length etc with additional stipulations not included in the board contract .

Would this be standard procedure for all the big promotions such as matchroom as well ?

You haven't understood correctly.

There IS NO BOARD PROMOTIONAL CONTRACT. There cannot be a Board contract between a person holding a licence, Tony Bellew and a party NOT holding a licence, Bunny's company FWP. A limited company, is a totally separate legal entity from Mr. Bunny, with NO connection or affiliation to the Board whatsoever. Don't be fooled by the words Promotional Company. FWP purport to promote the interests of the Boxer they are not, like Sports Network before it, holders of a licence issued by the Board to PROMOTE CONTESTS.

Unfortunately Bunny's Promotional Contracts contain a confidentiality clause but someone may be prepared to post a blank one, but not me.

??? ok , so now im a bit puzzled , let me get this straight, So Obviously theres a management contract , and then theres this contract you speak of between Bellew and FWP , so theres no Promotion contract between MR allegedly and Bellew ???

So basically the contract must read that he still has to box on shows promoted by Allegedly , but as a promotor himself he has no promotional contracts to the boxers, im guessing this is where things can get ugly , such as not paying a boxer etc as the board cant sanction the promotor when the contract is with the company , but then surely if the company goes bust the company owner is liable ..... Unless its a limited company of course , in which case the owners/Directors only lose anything theyve invested into the company

You are getting very confused Damian.

All Boxers must have a manager licensed by the Board and they must sign a Boxer/Manager Agreement on the Board's Form 36A or they cannot fight on any event sanctioned by the Board.

Most Boxers also enter into a contract with an AGENT (who generally refer to themselves as Promoters but only because they purport to PROMOTE the BOXER's they are not promoters licenced by the Board). The Promotional companies are usually owned by a licenced Promoter such as Bunny, Eddie Hearn, Barry Hearn, Frank Maloney and although they are directors of the promotional company, at law, the company is a separate legal entity to the man who actually holds a promoter's licence. No Boxer, as a general rule, signs a contract with the licenced promoter and the licenced promoter uses the promotional company and its staff to organise the actual running of an event. However it is the individual who holds the licence who is deemed to be the Promoter of the event not the promotional company and only a licenced Promoter can organise a boxing contest.

So in answer to your query, all Boxers must sign a Boxer/Manager agreement with a person licenced to manage Boxers and unless they act independantly, the majority of boxers also sign a promotional agreement with a company who acts as the boxer's agent but never to my knowledge with an individual who is a licensed Promoter.

Does this help.

[damianhucker1]

You haven't understood correctly.

There IS NO BOARD PROMOTIONAL CONTRACT. There cannot be a Board contract between a person holding a licence, Tony Bellew and a party NOT holding a licence, Bunny's company FWP. A limited company, is a totally separate legal entity from Mr. Bunny, with NO connection or affiliation to the Board whatsoever. Don't be fooled by the words Promotional Company. FWP purport to promote the interests of the Boxer they are not, like Sports Network before it, holders of a licence issued by the Board to PROMOTE CONTESTS.

Unfortunately Bunny's Promotional Contracts contain a confidentiality clause but someone may be prepared to post a blank one, but not me.

??? ok , so now im a bit puzzled , let me get this straight, So Obviously theres a management contract , and then theres this contract you speak of between Bellew and FWP , so theres no Promotion contract between MR allegedly and Bellew ???

So basically the contract must read that he still has to box on shows promoted by Allegedly , but as a promotor himself he has no promotional contracts to the boxers, im guessing this is where things can get ugly , such as not paying a boxer etc as the board cant sanction the promotor when the contract is with the company , but then surely if the company goes bust the company owner is liable ..... Unless its a limited company of course , in which case the owners/Directors only lose anything theyve invested into the company

You are getting very confused Damian.

All Boxers must have a manager licensed by the Board and they must sign a Boxer/Manager Agreement on the Board's Form 36A or they cannot fight on any event sanctioned by the Board.

Most Boxers also enter into a contract with an AGENT (who generally refer to themselves as Promoters but only because they purport to PROMOTE the BOXER's they are not promoters licenced by the Board). The Promotional companies are usually owned by a licenced Promoter such as Bunny, Eddie Hearn, Barry Hearn, Frank Maloney and although they are directors of the promotional company, at law, the company is a separate legal entity to the man who actually holds a promoter's licence. No Boxer, as a general rule, signs a contract with the licenced promoter and the licenced promoter uses the promotional company and its staff to organise the actual running of an event. However it is the individual who holds the licence who is deemed to be the Promoter of the event not the promotional company and only a licenced Promoter can organise a boxing contest.

So in answer to your query, all Boxers must sign a Boxer/Manager agreement with a person licenced to manage Boxers and unless they act independantly, the majority of boxers also sign a promotional agreement with a company who acts as the boxer's agent but never to my knowledge with an individual who is a licensed Promoter.

Does this help.

Oh ok i get you now , i was thinking along the lines of something dodgy being done to avoid penalty , mind in overdrive meant completely missing the actual point cheers for clarifying .

Edit : so form 35 is basically just for specific fights to be agreed to , think thats where i got confused , i was thinking promotors had to have all their signed fighters signed up via one of those prior to this thread , still got plenty to learn evidently , guy at the board was reluctant to discuss finer issues with me until my unlicensed obligations have been completed , spoken with several people but obviously not about this matter so its been a useful thread to me .