Quick counts

[man]

He didn't beat the count though. If you pause the video at 2:51 it's clear that Foreman was getting up, not already up, as Clayton stopped the fight.

The clock shows that Foreman was down for 11 seconds and he failed to beat a standard count; there was nothing 'fishy' about the stoppage.

you might be right, but, as i said earlier,
i only know this one footage and i do not
know if the commentator repeats the count
correctly or not. if he did george was up at
nine.

in any case, being up at ten, other refs would
shake the gloves, ask a question and so forth.
here it looked like the ref could not call if off
early enough.

i do not like to spend too much time on such
details honestly speaking but i sense george
touched the floor at ten and a half secs to go
and he was up at zero. to me it was not an
outright scandal, but still ... little fishy.

and i have no idea why foreman did not complain
about it ... I would have.

[The Great John L]

John L. doesnt come to us on this topic from the usual position of starry-eyed Ali adoration. Study his posts, and youll see Boxrec's foremost Foreman hater. Youll never penetrate that hardened exterior of stupidity he displays (otherwise, a pretty decent poster actually, but he cant handle Foreman), whenever Big George's name comes up.

Irene doesn't understand the meaning of the word objectivity. I was actually a huge Foreman fan during both of his careers, but unlike many on here am able to watch his fights and understand his shortcomings. He had a limited amateur background and was never allowed to really develop as a pro until after the Lyle scare. Unfortunately his development during first career was put to a halt when he was beaten by Young and he subsequently decided to hang up the gloves.

His second career was really a continuation of the first part of his first career as he padded his recorded waiting for a really big payday. His performance against Holyfield was impressive, and I give him full credit for clocking Moorer with a few solid shots when he won his second title. Of course that stoppage seems to cloud everyone’s judgment into thinking that George was somehow more than a slow, relatively limited slugger. Massive power is great, but you still have to hit your opponent.

For those who didn’t live during those times it’s still pretty easy to understand George’s career by simply looking at his record leading up to the Frazier fight. He was considered a highly dangerous limited puncher at the time and most understood his shortcomings. When he stopped Frazier I was surprised. When he stopped Norton I had a new hero and my judgment was clouded about his skills. Zaire was a shock to me, but in retrospect it’s pretty easy to see why Ali was so confident if watch George’s earlier fights objectively.

Yes, he was an all time great, but he was also probably the most limited of any HW that could be called an ATG. He was slow of foot, had a hard time throwing a straight right hand, delivered an excellent jab but didn’t really know what to do with it, and had terrible reflexes.

Unfortunately, Irene seems to think that anyone who doesn’t see George beating very other HW in history not in the AT top 10 is somehow a hater. I’m still a fan of his, but unlike Irene and many others on here I still don’t see how he could have ever beaten a guy like Gene Tunney or any other skilled defensive HW with good conditioning.

[Goodnight, Irene]

John L. doesnt come to us on this topic from the usual position of starry-eyed Ali adoration. Study his posts, and youll see Boxrec's foremost Foreman hater. Youll never penetrate that hardened exterior of stupidity he displays (otherwise, a pretty decent poster actually, but he cant handle Foreman), whenever Big George's name comes up.

Irene doesn't understand the meaning of the word objectivity. I was actually a huge Foreman fan during both of his careers, but unlike many on here am able to watch his fights and understand his shortcomings. He had a limited amateur background and was never allowed to really develop as a pro until after the Lyle scare. Unfortunately his development during first career was put to a halt when he was beaten by Young and he subsequently decided to hang up the gloves.

His second career was really a continuation of the first part of his first career as he padded his recorded waiting for a really big payday. His performance against Holyfield was impressive, and I give him full credit for clocking Moorer with a few solid shots when he won his second title. Of course that stoppage seems to cloud everyone’s judgment into thinking that George was somehow more than a slow, relatively limited slugger. Massive power is great, but you still have to hit your opponent.

For those who didn’t live during those times it’s still pretty easy to understand George’s career by simply looking at his record leading up to the Frazier fight. He was considered a highly dangerous limited puncher at the time and most understood his shortcomings. When he stopped Frazier I was surprised. When he stopped Norton I had a new hero and my judgment was clouded about his skills. Zaire was a shock to me, but in retrospect it’s pretty easy to see why Ali was so confident if watch George’s earlier fights objectively.

Yes, he was an all time great, but he was also probably the most limited of any HW that could be called an ATG. He was slow of foot, had a hard time throwing a straight right hand, delivered an excellent jab but didn’t really know what to do with it, and had terrible reflexes.

Unfortunately, Irene seems to think that anyone who doesn’t see George beating very other HW in history not in the AT top 10 is somehow a hater. I’m still a fan of his, but unlike Irene and many others on here I still don’t see how he could have ever beaten a guy like Gene Tunney or any other skilled defensive HW with good conditioning.

I almost broke a rib laughing, and thus couldnt read past this point.

I trust I missed nothing more than your usual blather about Foreman being better in 1976-77 than he was pre-Zaire (LOL), and how he was the greatest fraud ever in the 90's.

That about sum up your usual routine?

[klompton]

Sooo... he wasnt a fraud in the 1990s? Because any guy who fights one stiff after another to get a title shot and loses to the best fighters he faces (some of which arent particularly special) , gets busted for his promoter paying bribes to have poor challengers ranked for him to fight, loses to those poor challengers, ducks rematches against those poor challengers, and admits several times on air that hes ducking threats like lewis and bowe is pretty much the definition of a fraud in this sport...

[Goodnight, Irene]

Sooo... he wasnt a fraud in the 1990s? Because any guy who fights one stiff after another to get a title shot and loses to the best fighters he faces (some of which arent particularly special) , gets busted for his promoter paying bribes to have poor challengers ranked for him to fight, loses to those poor challengers, ducks rematches against those poor challengers, and admits several times on air that hes ducking threats like lewis and bowe is pretty much the definition of a fraud in this sport...

Seems to have earned Vitali plenty of cred.

[klompton]

Was anyone talking about klitchko?

[man]

John L. doesnt come to us on this topic from the usual position of starry-eyed Ali adoration. Study his posts, and youll see Boxrec's foremost Foreman hater. Youll never penetrate that hardened exterior of stupidity he displays (otherwise, a pretty decent poster actually, but he cant handle Foreman), whenever Big George's name comes up.

Irene doesn't understand the meaning of the word objectivity. I was actually a huge Foreman fan during both of his careers, but unlike many on here am able to watch his fights and understand his shortcomings. He had a limited amateur background and was never allowed to really develop as a pro until after the Lyle scare. Unfortunately his development during first career was put to a halt when he was beaten by Young and he subsequently decided to hang up the gloves.

His second career was really a continuation of the first part of his first career as he padded his recorded waiting for a really big payday. His performance against Holyfield was impressive, and I give him full credit for clocking Moorer with a few solid shots when he won his second title. Of course that stoppage seems to cloud everyone’s judgment into thinking that George was somehow more than a slow, relatively limited slugger. Massive power is great, but you still have to hit your opponent.

For those who didn’t live during those times it’s still pretty easy to understand George’s career by simply looking at his record leading up to the Frazier fight. He was considered a highly dangerous limited puncher at the time and most understood his shortcomings. When he stopped Frazier I was surprised. When he stopped Norton I had a new hero and my judgment was clouded about his skills. Zaire was a shock to me, but in retrospect it’s pretty easy to see why Ali was so confident if watch George’s earlier fights objectively.

Yes, he was an all time great, but he was also probably the most limited of any HW that could be called an ATG. He was slow of foot, had a hard time throwing a straight right hand, delivered an excellent jab but didn’t really know what to do with it, and had terrible reflexes.

Unfortunately, Irene seems to think that anyone who doesn’t see George beating very other HW in history not in the AT top 10 is somehow a hater. I’m still a fan of his, but unlike Irene and many others on here I still don’t see how he could have ever beaten a guy like Gene Tunney or any other skilled defensive HW with good conditioning.

great post. though i think foreman did improve
a lot in his second career by being not as cocky
as he used to be.

it is difficult to criticize him cause he is an ATG
and limited at the same time.

two fights i would have loved to see: tyson and holmes.
too bad.

it is funny how one's own perception changes over time.
foreman has been losing ground in my thinking as well
as tyson (though from very high level in both cases) while
holmes was rising steadily.