BoxRec

I read all those books as a youngster.

He was 5'8" and fought as a heavyweight on the unlicensed bills, which is impressive I guess. His best wins were a young McClean (who wasn't a great boxer) and Ron Stander, who was shot to bits and was taking fights anywhere and not training. Even Shaw admits he would've lost if Stander wasn't injured.

He was a horrible man who bullied his way through life. If you want to applaud somebody who had nothing to offer the world except rage and violence then fill your boots. He would've got got killed by any c- heavyweight of the time, same as McClean.

They benefited by many over matched opponents and anybody who makes some idiot claim that either was the hardest man in Britain is probably basing their opinion on their self serving glossy biographies. Don't believe all you read.

I hate random people I meet who tell you they've been to jail. So what? Shaw spent years and years behind the door, and shouldn't be applauded for it.

Fireman, nurses etc are the real heroes. fornicate these guys.

Shaw, McLean, Paul Sykes, Malcolm Price etc.... they are interesting, colourful characters but their ability is always hugely over-stated. Same with the various "King of the Gypsies" fighters of recent years.

Yes, they're probably all "hard men" when it comes to smacking up some random drunk in a boozer, but no... they wouldn't last long with a trained heavyweight boxer and there is enough proof out there to support that.

Fact is, guys like these exist in every town in the country. It's quite a sad existence from what I have observed.

Round my way there are two guys who claim to have challenged McLean to a fight but he chose not to fight them. Both men are widely respected in the area, people kept their distance etc and they battered a lot of people for various reasons. Both are old now and way past it but still out and about living off their reputations, although these days the next generation of would be "hard man" have started to get the better of them.

Someone could write a book about these chaps and their exploits and those who don't know would lap it up, same as some of us have done when it comes to Shaw and co.

With such people I get the impression none are genuinely happy.

mercman wrote:

yiddo14 wrote:Fact is, guys like these exist in every town in the country. It's quite a sad existence from what I have observed.

Round my way there are two guys who claim to have challenged McLean to a fight but he chose not to fight them. Both men are widely respected in the area, people kept their distance etc and they battered a lot of people for various reasons. Both are old now and way past it but still out and about living off their reputations, although these days the next generation of would be "hard man" have started to get the better of them.

Someone could write a book about these chaps and their exploits and those who don't know would lap it up, same as some of us have done when it comes to Shaw and co.

With such people I get the impression none are genuinely happy.

I don't find that particularly surprising: from what I have obseved the lifestyle of a violent criminal tends to bring unhappiness. Yes, a lot are full of bravado, but their lives are often underpinned by fear, anxiety and false relationships. Many of them are very unpleasant and cruel people.

Do you know my wife?

Loftgroov wrote:Shaw, McLean, Paul Sykes, Malcolm Price etc.... they are interesting, colourful characters but their ability is always hugely over-stated. Same with the various "King of the Gypsies" fighters of recent years.

Yes, they're probably all "hard men" when it comes to smacking up some random drunk in a boozer, but no... they wouldn't last long with a trained heavyweight boxer and there is enough proof out there to support that.

Paul Sykes fought for the British Heavyweight title with very limited experience.

mercman wrote: I don't find that particularly surprising: from what I have obseved the lifestyle of a violent criminal tends to bring unhappiness. Yes, a lot are full of bravado, but their lives are often underpinned by fear, anxiety and false relationships. Many of them are very unpleasant and cruel people.

Violent criminals are unpleasant and cruel people? Surely you can't mean that. There's no sense to it.

mercman wrote:

gp. wrote:

mercman wrote: I don't find that particularly surprising: from what I have obseved the lifestyle of a violent criminal tends to bring unhappiness. Yes, a lot are full of bravado, but their lives are often underpinned by fear, anxiety and false relationships. Many of them are very unpleasant and cruel people.

Violent criminals are unpleasant and cruel people? Surely you can't mean that. There's no sense to it.

OK, it's probably a rather obvious and simplistic statement but it is something that some people tend to forget, especially those who read all those hard man books and biographies and seem to idolise such people.

Even on a smaller scale, lots of the people we look up to have disgusting and selfish ways about them. I know that many people who can fight better tha the average man get away with a lot more than others and are thought of highly, irrespective of the bad things they do.

mercman wrote:

gp. wrote:

mercman wrote: I don't find that particularly surprising: from what I have obseved the lifestyle of a violent criminal tends to bring unhappiness. Yes, a lot are full of bravado, but their lives are often underpinned by fear, anxiety and false relationships. Many of them are very unpleasant and cruel people.

Violent criminals are unpleasant and cruel people? Surely you can't mean that. There's no sense to it.

OK, it's probably a rather obvious and simplistic statement but it is something that some people tend to forget, especially those who read all those hard man books and biographies and seem to idolise such people.

I won't disagree on that.

Joe Frazier destroyed Stander about 15 years before Stander had his 'fight' with Shaw... and Ken Norton did a simular job a few years after Frazier. No disrespect meant but I just dont think you can begin to compare someone like Shaw or Mcclean with pro greats like Frazier... its a different world totally.

fatcity69 wrote:Joe Frazier destroyed Stander about 15 years before Stander had his 'fight' with Shaw... and Ken Norton did a simular job a few years after Frazier. No disrespect meant but I just dont think you can begin to compare someone like Shaw or Mcclean with pro greats like Frazier... its a different world totally.

It's like comparing a domesticated tabby to a lion in the wild.

Have to say they could fight. Watch Paul Sykes and Lenny McClean clips on the Youtube, THEY COULD PUNCH! Everyone in the boxing world says they'd be smashed to bits by C- heavyweights. That might be true, but they trained and fought in a ring in front of people (a lot of people) who paid to watch 'em fight. FACT! Whether Lenny got knocked out a few times or not, he (and Roy Shaw) still got in there. They might have been over the hill psychos; jail-birds; bullys, but they entertained a lot of people in the 70's and 80's

Yeah, of course. They were beasts compared to the average man. I'm sure they entertained those who came along to have a bit of fun when they fought.

Out of them all paul sykes could fight, he had a decent amuteur boxing career and gave John L Gardner a very good fight for the British heavyweight title. Sykes could probably have done a lot more as a pro boxer had his personal issues not got in the way. As for Shaw and Mcclean they basically fought a string of 'tough guy' types who had no real boxing training at all. Again, no disrespct but theres a world of difference between the unlicensed circuit and proboxing.
An 80s boxer Greg Haugen used to regularly beat guys 100 pounds heavier than himself in 'tough man' competitions before he turned pro, and he was just a 135 pouder lightweight (and future world champion). This kind of illustrates the gulf in class between the unliscensed and pro fighter.

Look at the hand speed of Lenny's when he ironed out Shaw. He must of threw 30 punches in about 8 seconds lol. Quality opponent or not, that was one 'effin good KO.

Eddy wrote:Look at the hand speed of Lenny's when he ironed out Shaw. He must of threw 30 punches in about 8 seconds lol. Quality opponent or not, that was one 'effin good KO.

That was like watching someone go hell for leather on a heavy bag! They were all short hooks with him standing square on if I remember correct, feet planted? Would love to see how good his genuine handspeed was, I'm talking doubling up on the jab, right cross, left hook etc.

Not saying the man couldn't fight obviously! Just not overly impressed with any of these vids of him fighting in the ring. I see the attraction though.

Shaw was an old man when he fought McLean, but for being a middleweight who fought heavyweights (Shaw was a middleweight pro before joining the unlicensed circuit) he was tremendous. Not too many were able to stand up to his ferocious attack. Still, I think Paddock, Waldron and Fields were the best of the white collar circuit. However, Shaw was such a man's man and lived one hell of a life. I think at his best he could have beaten any version of McLean ten out of ten. Thanks for the memories champion!

RIP Sad news.

fatcity69 wrote:Out of them all paul sykes could fight, he had a decent amuteur boxing career and gave John L Gardner a very good fight for the British heavyweight title. Sykes could probably have done a lot more as a pro boxer had his personal issues not got in the way. As for Shaw and Mcclean they basically fought a string of 'tough guy' types who had no real boxing training at all. Again, no disrespct but theres a world of difference between the unlicensed circuit and proboxing.
An 80s boxer Greg Haugen used to regularly beat guys 100 pounds heavier than himself in 'tough man' competitions before he turned pro, and he was just a 135 pouder lightweight (and future world champion). This kind of illustrates the gulf in class between the unliscensed and pro fighter.

Cliff Fields, Johnny Waldron, and Kevin Paddock could fight. They were apart of the unlicensed circuit. For the most part it is true that these guys were bully boys, doormen, and bar room brawlers, but there were decent fighters on the circuit who made mince meat of the rest. Paddock kayoed McLean in one round, as did Fields if my memory suits me right, and Waldron fought on the unlicensed circuit til he was in his 50's and kayoed Julius Francis at age 45. One month later Francis won the British title. So to label these guys simply as nothings is inaccurate to say the least. Its like today, Mark Potter is the unlicensed champion and he was a decent pro, and probably will stay champion for a long while cus most of the men on the circuit are not in his class.

if bare knuckle fighting is your thing, then Documentary 'Knuckle' is on BBC4 at 10pm

met roy at an unlicensed show in east london , maybe 3 years or so ago when i took a lad down to box on the show , seemed a nice guy to be honest , i was quite suprised condidering some of the stories .


RIP .

its not like any1s praising the guys wrongdoings or even idolising him. only discussing his fighting abilities on a boxing forum.

RIP Roy. I knew his carer. He struggled with Alzahmers in the last decade was really sad to see. RIP orginal Pretty Boy, he'll he hanging out with the Guv'nor in heaven

danconnollyeire wrote:RIP Roy. I knew his carer. He struggled with Alzahmers in the last decade was really sad to see. RIP orginal Pretty Boy, he'll he hanging out with the Guv'nor in heaven

I don't think he'll be able to intimidate the doorman there pal; some of the stuff them 2 got up to, they might struggle to get in.

palooka wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:RIP Roy. I knew his carer. He struggled with Alzahmers in the last decade was really sad to see. RIP orginal Pretty Boy, he'll he hanging out with the Guv'nor in heaven

I don't think he'll be able to intimidate the doorman there pal; some of the stuff them 2 got up to, they might struggle to get in.

Nah he finished off a nice and peaceful. He's done his time!

danconnollyeire wrote:RIP Roy. I knew his carer. He struggled with Alzahmers in the last decade was really sad to see. RIP orginal Pretty Boy, he'll he hanging out with the Guv'nor in heaven

Doubt roy will speak toh im up there. his comment regarding being invited to lennys funeral summed it up "I didnt like him when he was alive, why would i go there?"