Ali and racism

[safeerah]

So being mistreated is an excuse for being racist?

In that case many many people have an excuse to join the BNP these days.

Remember Ali attended a Klu Klux Klan rally whilst with the Nation Of Islam.

He gave a speech on segregation and the Klu Klux Klan members cheered in agreement. I guess the Klu Klux Klan and the the false nation of Islam had something in common, they both wanted to keep blacks and whites apart and both hated each others colour, later Ali and Malcolm X both discovered the real Islam, that denounces racism and changed their views. I have to say Ali had some balls to go to a Klu Klux Klan Rally.

[dondada]

I suppose but without getting all moral and shit surely your stooping down to their level.

Obviously people are only human.

Just wandering whether people would use being mistreated as an excuse to be a white racist (BNP all them pudenda etc) as much as they seem to for black people being racist against whites.

How have most BNP members been mistreated by other races, though? The vast majority I see on protest marches are thick, workshy twats.

[saturday_kid]

So being mistreated is an excuse for being racist?

In that case many many people have an excuse to join the BNP these days.

Remember Ali attended a Klu Klux Klan rally whilst with the Nation Of Islam.

He gave a speech on segregation and the Klu Klux Klan members cheered in agreement. I guess the Klu Klux Klan and the the false nation of Islam had something in common, they both wanted to keep blacks and whites apart and both hated each others colour, later Ali and Malcolm X both discovered the real Islam, that denounces racism and changed their views. I have to say Ali had some balls to go to a Klu Klux Klan Rally.

Yeah definitely believe the KKK and NOI met as they basically shared the same views just either side of the fence.

Think the Nation Of Islam got away with a lot because of their name, where anyone who knows any little amount of true Islam knows that lot were definitely not representing true Muslims.

[Counter-puncher]

the Ummah needed to step up

[bripez]

I have to say Ali had some balls to go to a Klu Klux Klan Rally.

Why? - as a high profile person with an entourage an media in tow (not to mention that he went there to agree with them !).

It would have taken true courage for a regular person to attend and to actually disagree with them.

In my opinion both Ali and the KKK were wrong in their views.

[safeerah]

So being mistreated is an excuse for being racist?

In that case many many people have an excuse to join the BNP these days.

Remember Ali attended a Klu Klux Klan rally whilst with the Nation Of Islam.

He gave a speech on segregation and the Klu Klux Klan members cheered in agreement. I guess the Klu Klux Klan and the the false nation of Islam had something in common, they both wanted to keep blacks and whites apart and both hated each others colour, later Ali and Malcolm X both discovered the real Islam, that denounces racism and changed their views. I have to say Ali had some balls to go to a Klu Klux Klan Rally.

Yeah definitely believe the KKK and NOI met as they basically shared the same views just either side of the fence.

Think the Nation Of Islam got away with a lot because of their name, where anyone who knows any little amount of true Islam knows that lot were definitely not representing true Muslims.

Too true, Saturday Kid, they where exposed as just a street gang like the KKK, they just used a peaceful religeon for evil ends.

[safeerah]

I have to say Ali had some balls to go to a Klu Klux Klan Rally.

Why? - as a high profile person with an entourage an media in tow (not to mention that he went there to agree with them !).

It would have taken true courage for a regular person to attend and to actually disagree with them.

In my opinion both Ali and the KKK were wrong in their views.

High profile person murdered by the KKK could have raised their profile very high indeed, plus a lot of highly ranked people did not like his views on vietnam, boxing and the goverment.

[Chambers2]

Remember taking a Bus from New Orleans to Lafayette. Went to the Back of the Bus, where Blacks were Sat. They said to me, Hey man youre not supposed to sit here, I said, do you mind, they all smiled, said No. So I sat down, and got looks from the Whites on the Bus. Thought F==k them and had a very pleasant journey and a great natter with them. That was in the 80s.

[Chambers2]

So being mistreated is an excuse for being racist?

In that case many many people have an excuse to join the BNP these days.

Remember Ali attended a Klu Klux Klan rally whilst with the Nation Of Islam.

As I said ""You'll never understand a person until you walk a mile in their shoes"

Do you expect people to be mistreated because of their race and still hold love for the people doing it. In Alis eyes I'm sure the white people looked pretty devil-like

I don't see Ali as being racist. How can you call someone racist who has been subjected to the mistreatment he and his kin folk had been for centuries? I'd give Ali 1 out of 10 for racism, I'd give them redneck hill-billy KKK cunnt types 11 out of 10.

If I'm having the shit kicked out of me by 10 black or asian people in a racially motivated attack and I call one of them a black or asian bastard (insert any other derogatory racial reference), am I the racist?

After growing up in the south of the US at the time Ali did where he and his peoples treatment was barbaric and medieval at times, I can definitely understand why he had a lot of resentmemt for the white people around him (he may well have thought the rest of the worlds white people were as disgusting as the white people round him, understandably IMO)

[Chambers2]

I suppose but without getting all moral and shit surely your stooping down to their level.

Obviously people are only human.

Just wandering whether people would use being mistreated as an excuse to be a white racist (BNP all them pudenda etc) as much as they seem to for black people being racist against whites.

Slight difference between 400 years of slavery, rapings, beating, lynchings etc. to having an Indian lad nick your pocket money

[Chambers2]

The irony was that Joe was more black than Ali was, yet Muhammad insisted on calling Joe an Uncle Tom etc.

No irony in that as being an Uncle Tom has nowt to do with how dark your skin is, it's about being happy to be the White Mans lacky

[safeerah]

Remember taking a Bus from New Orleans to Lafayette. Went to the Back of the Bus, where Blacks were Sat. They said to me, Hey man youre not supposed to sit here, I said, do you mind, they all smiled, said No. So I sat down, and got looks from the Whites on the Bus. Thought F==k them and had a very pleasant journey and a great natter with them. That was in the 80s.

Your a good man scrap.

[safeerah]

The irony was that Joe was more black than Ali was, yet Muhammad insisted on calling Joe an Uncle Tom etc.

No irony in that as being an Uncle Tom has nowt to do with how dark your skin is, it's about being happy to be the White Mans lacky

True, many black people fought for equality, while others kissed the arse of the oppressors
to get by.

[Bricks]

[[/quote]

One of my favourite quotes is when Frazier said he wished Ali had fallen into the Olympic flame when he lit it at Atlanta. Just a reminder that his bitterness was still there.[/quote]

In fairness, Joe wasnt always bitter he was pretty magnanimous with Ali even after the 71 clash. It was Ali who overdid the whole gorilla and ugly stuff plus of course how close the 3rd battle was in terms of Ali almost being pulled out before Frazier.[/quote]

Yes, I'm sure he tried his best to be magnanimous and managed it most of the time. But the bitterness won out. Not long before Smokin' Joe's death, his answerphone greeting made mention of the fact Ali wasn't in the best way and that he (Joe) played a part in that. Unless I dreamt this, which is possible.[/quote]

Yeah towards the end the last fifteen years or so Joe just gave in to bitterness. By that time he was now old he could no longer train just to stay in shape as his health failed him, he had seen Alis profile and marketibility have a second coming after the 1996 olympics and he got increasingly bitter and dejected as he began to suffer financially himself at the same time and throw in George Foreman being the linear champ till 1998! and than making $120 million on a grilling machine and Joe was a comparative pauper. He lost his gym.....he had no fighters to train.......no marketability......the true incon of philly HW boxing was Joe......but to the rest of the world it was a fictional character Rocky Balboa. Joe did suffer injustices and he just gave in to bitterness and an ugly personality. Anyway i pray this brave and toughest of men rests in peace

[palooka]

The irony was that Joe was more black than Ali was, yet Muhammad insisted on calling Joe an Uncle Tom etc.

No irony in that as being an Uncle Tom has nowt to do with how dark your skin is, it's about being happy to be the White Mans lacky

Didn't Frazier point out that all the controlling influences and initial investors in Ali were white men while all his (Fraziers) were black men?

Reading the different biographies about both men; Ali had a far more comfortable and secure upbringing than Frazier who had it really rough.

[Chambers2]

The irony was that Joe was more black than Ali was, yet Muhammad insisted on calling Joe an Uncle Tom etc.

No irony in that as being an Uncle Tom has nowt to do with how dark your skin is, it's about being happy to be the White Mans lacky

Didn't Frazier point out that all the controlling influences and initial investors in Ali were white men while all his (Fraziers) were black men?

Reading the different biographies about both men; Ali had a far more comfortable and secure upbringing than Frazier who had it really rough.

Yeah that's probably spot on

I'm not knocking Frazier in anyway, the man is a Legend!! He put up with a ridiculous amount of verbal abuse from Ali (as did the majority of his opponents, especially in the early days), but that's just another brutal side of the game of boxing IMO (at it's most extreme). Ali was merciless in his efforts to get to the top and to make as much noise as possible whilst doing it, but his help in getting equal rights for the black man in America is immeasurable due to his outspoken views and his high profile, a profile that would have been a lot lower without Joe Frazier

[tonyevs]

There is more rose tinted revisionism about Ali than any figure in sporting history.

Some of the views he spouted about white people displayed a Sugar Clay Jones Junior level of ignorance.

He used a vile illogical racism on Frazier and was happy to take the millions from a hated dictator who subjugated his country.

Plus the 'no vietcong...' quote is fictitious. And his poetry was written for him.

Hell of a fighter though.

Totally agree mate

That said ..
I read a quote he is said to have made in his book .. probably somebody elses quote, but I guess he must have atleast agreed with it to use it ...
Went something like this ..

"A man who thinks the same at 50yrs old as he did when he was 20yrs old, has wasted the last 30yrs of his life"

Ali was a huge racist. One of the very worse, who would use it against anybody that got in his way.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

So being mistreated is an excuse for being racist?

In that case many many people have an excuse to join the BNP these days.

Remember Ali attended a Klu Klux Klan rally whilst with the Nation Of Islam.

Good God!

I have read it all now - comparing the brain dead, moronic arseholes of the BNP to the civil rights movement of the 1960's.

The only 'civil liberty' to be revoked is the right to be racially abusive in public - for which I am very happy about.

[scallum]

You probably would have to be black and grow up in the extremely racist south (-1960) to understand that Ali's n his kind were treated as subhuman.How else should they feel about their oppressors? Do the Jews love the 1940 Germans that tried to exterminate them? Do Bosnians Love the Genocide Minded Serbs of 1990s. Ali learned over time that not all whites hated his kind, the same with Malcolm X

[danconnollyeire]

I used to love Ali... then I saw footage of him at an Islamic rally calling white men all 'devils' and stating that no white man is your friend. This is racism. I don't care Ali

Just to point out two of my closes friends are black muslims. If I called them, the devil... they'd no longer be my friends!

[Syntax Error]

I used to love Ali... then I saw footage of him at an Islamic rally calling white men all 'devils' and stating that no white man is your friend. This is racism. I don't care Ali

Just to point out two of my closes friends are black muslims. If I called them, the devil... they'd no longer be my friends!

I don't think Ali really thought those things.

As I have alluded to previously, he lacked educational intelligence, was easily led & widely manipulated due to his gift of the gab.

As Richard Pryor used to joke about his own light skinned appearance, "I didn't come out of Africa looking like this."

Ali has white Irish blood in him; his own mother was mixed race, so It's inconceivable that he could have believed such things, deep down.

[danconnollyeire]

I used to love Ali... then I saw footage of him at an Islamic rally calling white men all 'devils' and stating that no white man is your friend. This is racism. I don't care Ali

Just to point out two of my closes friends are black muslims. If I called them, the devil... they'd no longer be my friends!

I don't think Ali really thought those things.

As I have alluded to previously, he lacked educational intelligence, was easily led & widely manipulated due to his gift of the gab.

As Richard Pryor used to joke about his own light skinned appearance, "I didn't come out of Africa looking like this."

Ali has white Irish blood in him; his own mother was mixed race, so It's inconceivable that he could have believed such things, deep down.

Yeah, but Hitler had dark hair... could he have beileved all human should be blonde deep down?

[thepocketrocket]

Hagler said he would 'never touch white flesh'....Hopkins said he 'would never lose to a white fighter'....yet years after the event people still discuss Minter's comment r.e Hagler.

Racism is racism...simples

[danconnollyeire]

Hagler said he would 'never touch white flesh'....Hopkins said he 'would never lose to a white fighter'....yet years after the event people still discuss Minter's comment r.e Hagler.

Racism is racism...simples

x100

Just because you are of a certain colour... it doesn't exempt you from the rule

[Cyclops]

I saw recently that someone on Current Scene put up a link to the Ward-Dawson presser where Ward's trainer tried to imply that Gary Shaw was kind of Dawson's white slave master, and that Dawson was some sort of uncle Tom. I believe the word 'plantation' was used.

I remember thinking it was unnecessary and wondered what Ward thought about his trainer bringing that sh*t up. Ward's Dad was white, so he's just as much a honky as a brother. I hope he told his trainer afterwards to can it.

Something I always thought was funny was the Klitschko brother's continued repping of Schmelling as one of their heroes. I don't know much about Schmelling so forgive me for my ignorance, but wasn't he aligned with Hitler and the Nazis at one point?