BoxRec

mugabi wrote:Fair enough. But Id include him and also Tony Ayala jnr in my list even tho he didnt do anything at MW as my fundamental point is there was a greater talent pool back than of guys who could have done a hell of a lot in todays depleted pond.
John Mugabi is another one who up and until the Hagler fight would give Martinez a harder fight than anyone at 160 today.

fatcity69 wrote:

Rover wrote:

fatcity69 wrote:Hagler wanted no part of Graham, the only world champion to fight Grham in his prime was Maccallum, who was himself avoided. Graham fought Kalambay for the Europeon title not world title.
You think Martinez is faster than Graham? how many fights of Graham have you seen? he was far more slippery and had more body movement than Martinez. Back to Kalambay, his record speaks for itself, Collins, Mccallum, Graham, Barkley, Kalule, Dewitt, etc I think his opposition ranks above Martinez over all and he could deal wthl all styles. Also I think Kalambay aside from his loss to Nunn had the sturdier chin compared to Martinez... against Barkley he at times went toe to toe and out punched the blade... and this was a peak Barkley. Kalambay definately edges Martinez for me, but thats no disgrace.

Aside from the loss to Nunn? I'd say you can't discount that fight in the chin department.
Hagler had one thing on his mind at the end of his career: Leonard.
You said champions avoided Graham. I understand that Kalambay beat him for the Euro title (and then fought for the world title). He was still a champion who didn't avoid Graham.
There was no difference between the Graham of the McCallum fight and the Graham of the Jackson fight--except that Graham got caught by a bomb.

The Nunn loss is something that can happen to any fighter, Sumbu was caught cold imo also he was at the end of his career. Aside from that it was a great punch. But to judge his chin fairly you need to look at his career overall and Kalambay showed a far better chin than Martinez, in fact I dont think he had ever been floored prior to the Nunn fight, while Martinez has been floored quite a few times in his career. Kalambay fought a lot of good and great punchers and was never bothered in the chin department by any of them.
I could go on for days bout Graham. Against Jackson he was giving a boxing lesson but was underorders by his manager to box in a more 'fanfreindly' manner which saw him take the role of the aggressor more and ultimatley get tagged in a manner that had he stuck to his earlier blueprint style he never would have been touched by Jackson imo.