Fwank Warren & Eddie Hearn trade blows

[MightyWarrior]

By allegedly
The fact remains that you preach that it’s the fighters’ interests at heart that you have, and that may be, but I suspect this pattern of rejecting big purse offers and big opportunities has more to do with you worrying that you will have no fighters left to run with on Sky.

Eddie is nailed here I think

[dondada]

What's your views on Hearn's part in letting Brook turn down Bradley and Rees turn down Burns? Just because Hearn looks the part and appears more transparent and accommodating than Warren, doesn't meaqn he'll ultimately be any better for British boxing. He's got a long way to go for me and sadly the monopoly that SKY have afforded him won't help his legacy. Hearn seems to spiel the same excuses as Warren, except he does it with a tweet and a smile on his face.

Here's my views (not that you were asking me lol) - who would be mental enough to throw Brook in with Bradley after he suffered so badly down the stretch against Jones? It shows good practice, IMO, rather than taking what might not even be that big a pay day against a bloke who is incredibly tough to beat and ending up back down the list.

And why the f**k should Rees fight Burns for 60k and a boatload of options? Firstly, you want to guarantee you'll get the 60k, for a start. Secondly, if Rees won, he'd end up working with FW when they've already parted company once.

[dondada]

By allegedly
The fact remains that you preach that it’s the fighters’ interests at heart that you have, and that may be, but I suspect this pattern of rejecting big purse offers and big opportunities has more to do with you worrying that you will have no fighters left to run with on Sky.

Eddie is nailed here I think

Nailed? By whom? The man who racked up large amounts of WBUllshit and WBOgus fights...on Sky?

Pattern of rejecting big purse offers? Well, the Bradley fight perhaps and given that he generates very little income, that wouldn't have been mega-bucks. Plus it would have been crazy to put him in with Bradley after flaws had been exposed by a fighter not as good as he is.

Rees doesn’t want to work with FW again seeing as he’s done so once and chosen another promoter – he’s stated this himself.

And to be criticised for not persuading Froch to step out of his natural weight division to fight Cleverly is ridiculous. Froch doesn’t owe anybody an explanation, least of all FW.

Who have the offers come from? A bloke whose last company went into administration because it couldn't afford to pay its leading fighter after a High Court judgment? The same company which the Millennium Stadium had to take to court to try and get paid?

allegedly accounts are due soon; of course, for the good of the sport, we all hope and trust they are very robust which would give other promoters encouragement to work with that company/channel.

As for FWP giving us Helenius v Chisora and Klitschko v Chisora, they didn’t, did they? Unless Matchroom gave us Barker v Martinez. Glad to see he’s finally admitting to promoting Haye v Chisora though after numerous statements to the contrary.

Re Brook "before I told him I no longer wished to promote him"…typical. He had been trying to leave and was already out of the door. Why? Because he felt he could do better elsewhere. He’d never headlined a decent show in his hometown and his last fight on an FWP show was an appalling two round knockover job against a nobody. This was after SIX years. Yes, he did get him to WBO number one status - but that's a particular strength of FW. In the following 18 months or so, Brook was out five times against N’Dou, Jackiewicz, Galarza, Hatton and Jones. At least three of those were better than anyone he’d fought before.

“and again, what of the fans?” he asks, breathtakingly. What about his recent press release re Clev, Gavin and Enzo. Was there an apology for those who had already bought not only fight tickets but laid out for travel and hotels? Just a line saying you could get a refund on the tickets. What about other bills that have recently been announced and then disappeared without trace?

[dondada]

In the following 18 months or so, Brook was out five times against N’Dou, Jackiewicz, Galarza, Hatton and Jones. At least three of those were better than anyone he’d fought before.

I wouldn't use that as some kind of measuring stick to promotional success. Boxers are supposed to fight better fighters as they progress, that's standard. Brook was taken to the WBO number one spot and would be comfortable defending at headline home shows now if it wasn't for who occupied the WBO title at the time, who do you think didn't fancy pushing for the mandatory the most? The fighter and team or promoter?

I'm not really sure what your point is. If boxers are supposed to fight better fighters as they progress, how come his final fight with FW was against one of the worst he ever fought? (Erm, late replacement, etc.)

I've no idea re the mandatory. Maybe it wasn't such a good plan going for that WBO spot if it wasn't a viable route?

[dondada]

Why did you ask me that question if you knew Kotey was a late replacement? That is what it is, it happens. Why wasn't the WBO a viable route? He was number one, they can push for a mandatory. You can't tell me Warren wasn't the man to be able to secure a mandatory of the WBO, and given how risk averse Brook and his team have been regarding the Bradley fight of late I imagine it wasn't Warren who didn't fancy it.

There are late replacements and there are...well...'that is what it is, it happens'. Quite.

It wasn't a viable route because he couldn't go anywhere, could he? Are you seriously telling me that the WBO would have ordered Pacquiao to fight him? I suppose they might, in some parallel universe, have made him vacate. More likely they could have made up a bullshit title.

Risk averse? Even if it would have be an option for Brook to fight Pac then, are you saying they should have taken it? Well, would have earned a lot of money, I suppose, which is very important. Completely hypothetical though as it would never, ever have been an option.

[Lightsoot]

What's your views on Hearn's part in letting Brook turn down Bradley and Rees turn down Burns? Just because Hearn looks the part and appears more transparent and accommodating than Warren, doesn't meaqn he'll ultimately be any better for British boxing. He's got a long way to go for me and sadly the monopoly that SKY have afforded him won't help his legacy. Hearn seems to spiel the same excuses as Warren, except he does it with a tweet and a smile on his face.

Here's my views (not that you were asking me lol) - who would be mental enough to throw Brook in with Bradley after he suffered so badly down the stretch against Jones? It shows good practice, IMO, rather than taking what might not even be that big a pay day against a bloke who is incredibly tough to beat and ending up back down the list.

And why the f**k should Rees fight Burns for 60k and a boatload of options? Firstly, you want to guarantee you'll get the 60k, for a start. Secondly, if Rees won, he'd end up working with FW when they've already parted company once.

OK pal here goes. IMO Brook is better than what he showed against Jones and Bradley didn't beat Pacman. In 3 years time when he's been beaten at least twice people will be referring to Bradley as a stepping stone. With some adjustment to his diet, ie he maintains one, Special K could take Bradley so I think it's poor that he's still been wrapped in cotton wool. As residents of Sheffield, Brook has been 'sold' to us as a teenager as a future star so let's see him deliver. Since when was a loss such a bad thing?

Regarding Rees, I'm more willing to concede ground. 60K for a world title fight isn't a lot. BUT Hearn said he'd deliver The Rock a world title shot so where is it? I don't see it anymore. He's ready for it, and hell Warren secured him a world title shot when he wasn't and he still won it.

Hearn's selling the dream but does he want to make it a reality?

[dondada]

OK pal here goes. IMO Brook is better than what he showed against Jones and Bradley didn't beat Pacman. In 3 years time when he's been beaten at least twice people will be referring to Bradley as a stepping stone. With some adjustment to his diet, ie he maintains one, Special K could take Bradley so I think it's poor that he's still been wrapped in cotton wool. As residents of Sheffield, Brook has been 'sold' to us as a teenager as a future star so let's see him deliver. Since when was a loss such a bad thing?

Regarding Rees, I'm more willing to concede ground. 60K for a world title fight isn't a lot. BUT Hearn said he'd deliver The Rock a world title shot so where is it? I don't see it anymore. He's ready for it, and hell Warren secured him a world title shot when he wasn't and he still won it.

Hearn's selling the dream but does he want to make it a reality?

Totally understand the logic re Brook; I'm one of those who think Bradley is actually quite good. He doesn't seem to do anything special but everything well. Plus...how much money would Desert Storm bring to the table? That might have been the key factor rather than Brook not doing as well as he should have done v Carson. If Brook lost, it wouldn't necessarily put some big money fights out of the question but would make it much harder.

Yes, re Rees...do you think Hearn would have turned down Burns if, say, he'd been with the Hattons or Hennessy? As a Rock fan, would you want him winning and then tied to FW for three or five fecking options?

[Lightsoot]

OK pal here goes. IMO Brook is better than what he showed against Jones and Bradley didn't beat Pacman. In 3 years time when he's been beaten at least twice people will be referring to Bradley as a stepping stone. With some adjustment to his diet, ie he maintains one, Special K could take Bradley so I think it's poor that he's still been wrapped in cotton wool. As residents of Sheffield, Brook has been 'sold' to us as a teenager as a future star so let's see him deliver. Since when was a loss such a bad thing?

Regarding Rees, I'm more willing to concede ground. 60K for a world title fight isn't a lot. BUT Hearn said he'd deliver The Rock a world title shot so where is it? I don't see it anymore. He's ready for it, and hell Warren secured him a world title shot when he wasn't and he still won it.

Hearn's selling the dream but does he want to make it a reality?

Totally understand the logic re Brook; I'm one of those who think Bradley is actually quite good. He doesn't seem to do anything special but everything well. Plus...how much money would Desert Storm bring to the table? That might have been the key factor rather than Brook not doing as well as he should have done v Carson. If Brook lost, it wouldn't necessarily put some big money fights out of the question but would make it much harder.

Yes, re Rees...do you think Hearn would have turned down Burns if, say, he'd been with the Hattons or Hennessy? As a Rock fan, would you want him winning and then tied to FW for three or five fecking options?

This word "options" bothers me. It's like finishing with a bird and uttering "It's not you, it's me". Can we nail this 'options' malarke once and for all? It's a regular sticking point aimed at Warren more than anyone, almost as synonomous as Fergie being glued to his stopwatch during injury time, but it would be good if we could clarify just how reasonable he is being.

I don't doubt that Warren is stacking the odds ridiculously in his favour. I just wish transparent Eddie would expose what they are so we can make our minds up. I'm sick of hearing about options now - I want to know what they are.

[dondada]

This word "options" bothers me. It's like finishing with a bird and uttering "It's not you, it's me". Can we nail this 'options' malarke once and for all? It's a regular sticking point aimed at Warren more than anyone, almost as synonomous as Fergie being glued to his stopwatch during injury time, but it would be good if we could clarify just how reasonable he is being.

I don't doubt that Warren is stacking the odds ridiculously in his favour. I just wish transparent Eddie would expose what they are so we can make our minds up. I'm sick of hearing about options now - I want to know what they are.

Al himself has said he offered 50k with three options. Then the offer improved to 60k and Gavin has said there were five options.

Options, shmoptions - it means working with them in the future when you don't want to. If FW is so confident, etc. etc...

[dondada]

Why is options actually a problem for Hearn? I imagine with them being such a problem he wouldn't have any on Mack for his fight with Froch?

And if Mack didn't want them, he'd be quite right to tell Hearn and Froch to do one, wouldn't he?

[dondada]

Why is options actually a problem for Hearn? I imagine with them being such a problem he wouldn't have any on Mack for his fight with Froch?

And if Mack didn't want them, he'd be quite right to tell Hearn and Froch to do one, wouldn't he?

You think he wants them? I think he's putting up with them, not wanting them.

I agree; sorry it was badly phrased. Hearn and Rees must feel that they don't want to 'put up' with three or five bullshit options so have refused the incredible sum of 60k to fight for a 'world' title. I think that's reasonable.

[dondada]

Why did you ask me that question if you knew Kotey was a late replacement? That is what it is, it happens. Why wasn't the WBO a viable route? He was number one, they can push for a mandatory. You can't tell me Warren wasn't the man to be able to secure a mandatory of the WBO, and given how risk averse Brook and his team have been regarding the Bradley fight of late I imagine it wasn't Warren who didn't fancy it.

There are late replacements and there are...well...'that is what it is, it happens'. Quite.

It wasn't a viable route because he couldn't go anywhere, could he? Are you seriously telling me that the WBO would have ordered Pacquiao to fight him? I suppose they might, in some parallel universe, have made him vacate. More likely they could have made up a bullshit title.

Risk averse? Even if it would have be an option for Brook to fight Pac then, are you saying they should have taken it? Well, would have earned a lot of money, I suppose, which is very important. Completely hypothetical though as it would never, ever have been an option.

A late replacement is a late replacement, what is a promoter supposed to do, I don't know how any of it works, so I've no idea how they go about getting a replacement but I imagine price, fitness and availability are pretty high on the check list?

They would have had to order a mandatory eventually if Brook kept knocking on the door. In the position Manny was in they probably would have given up the belt rather than face an virtually unknown in the states Brook.

If Manny had have been an option no I don't think they should have fought him, but they shouldn't have been in that position if they weren't prepared to take on the belt holder, that's what number one means, or at least it's supposed to.

I can't talk anymore about that late replacement, really.

They could have knocked on the door as long as they liked, the WBO would never have mandated Brook to fight Pac nor stripped him either. 'They would have had to order a mandatory eventually'? That just isn't the case. They do whatever is most expedient to themselves. All the time.

The bit in bold, I agree with. That's why I'm saying it wasn't a viable route.

[dondada]

(leaving the options to one side for a moment) 60k is a very generous offer to Gavin Rees. I doubt he'll get a better pay day than that at any point in his career going forward.

BTW was he with FW when he won the WBA title?

I don't think 60k is generous but it maybe reflects the current economic climate. It's not that the concerns me. I don't think you can leave the options to one side as it's almost certainly the reason why it isn't happening.

Yes, he was with Al when he won that WBA fight. I seem to remember that Al had signed up M'Baye...might even have been something to do with Hatton and trying to get to him at the time. I forget now. But I will have it somewhere.

[Finn]

Fair enough re: options. But I maintain that 60k is big money for Rees at this stage, I'm sure Gavin himself would acknowledge that.

its all relative - what will his purses be for his next 3 fights if he doesnt have any in that ballpark then it was a silly move to turn it down. If hearn can get him some big fights then it was a shrewd move - time will tell.

[whiskey]

Wazza has found a niche of sending Hearn public offers, only for them to be rejected - then wazza can use it as ammo for his 'column'. I can see this trend continue. It's a pity he doesn't invest all that effort into his own fighters like Callum Johnson, who's got more chance of fighting outside a chip shop on a Saturday night, than in a ring, under his current arrangement.

In the case of Brook, it's black and white as to whom has done the better job. He's gone from African bums on undercards, to turning down Tim Bradley as he has a world title in 2 fights time.

Hearn is in a lose-lose situation with Bradley - if rejected he gets stick, if accepted and he loses, he gets stick - if he won, he'd get stick as Top Rank will have Brook wrapped up in options.

Much more intelligent to get into a purse bid situ, with no options, for Devon Alexander and the IBF title, make a couple of defences then unify against a Bradley type. Brook would be better prepared and more experienced by that point. And stands a much better chance.

Their 'Brook offer' as he left, was reported to be at 154lb against Cornelius Bundrage abroad - hardly great and a big risk given their natural size (if true).

Rees has quite clearly got zero interest in subcontracting to FWP for his own reasons (which aren't hard to figure out).

Ultimately wazza has got his wish, by deflecting criticism of his own Calzaghe-esque situations, the walk-out of Tony Bellew & James Degale for rivals and inactivity of loads of his contracted fighters. These are real-life issues, peoples livelihoods - yet on the same topic, Matchroom are often praised for their treatment of the fighters, prompt payment and all-round courtesy to their well-being in a friendly and supportive manner.

For me that is far more worthy of discussion, than fiction and point-scoring with press releases.

[hurlock]

Fair enough re: options. But I maintain that 60k is big money for Rees at this stage, I'm sure Gavin himself would acknowledge that.

He has done,saying if you get paid it.

Warren is very convincing in the argument.but him being him you don't believe a word & we have all learnt how deceiving he is in the past.

[orbtastic]

(leaving the options to one side for a moment) 60k is a very generous offer to Gavin Rees. I doubt he'll get a better pay day than that at any point in his career going forward.

BTW was he with FW when he won the WBA title?

I don't think 60k is generous but it maybe reflects the current economic climate. It's not that the concerns me. I don't think you can leave the options to one side as it's almost certainly the reason why it isn't happening.

Yes, he was with Al when he won that WBA fight. I seem to remember that Al had signed up M'Baye...might even have been something to do with Hatton and trying to get to him at the time. I forget now. But I will have it somewhere.

Yeah that's right, M'Baye was the WBA mandatory when Hatton beat Maussa (he may have been the mandatory when Maussa beat Harris).

[gasman]

Good discussion here.

I think it all, ultimately, boils down to TV politics.
If Hearn takes the Rees offer from Wazza, there is a load of options on Rees if he wins, so he effectively
hands over control of Rees to Wazza and allegedly if he makes the fight.
Also, it is not clear what channel would show Rees-Burns, obviously both Sky and BN
would want it. So that is a barrier to making the fight.

Re: Brook-Bradley. Brook got exposed somewhat against Jones (who is not on the same level as Bradley). He gassed in the second half of the fight, but he will learn from it and hopefully work on his stamina issues. Again, if Hearn had accepted the Bradley fight, Arum would have had a string of options (this was confirmed) on Brook, which would have complicated things for Hearn/Sky as there is no guarantee on when/where/what channel his next fights are on. Brook isnt ready for Bradley and he also can get a mandatory world title shot in his next fight, free from handing over any options. It is a no-brainer, imo.

The one promoter for Sky was a decent idea on paper, given the reluctance of cross-promotional collaboration in the older model, but there are now different problems. What channel the fights happen on, control of star names, fewer star names attached to Sky increases the risk of losing headliners. Brook, Bellew and Frampton are the three main names but they are all in tough divisions at world level.

[earsjohn]

The one promoter for Sky was a decent idea on paper, given the reluctance of cross-promotional collaboration in the older model, but there are now different problems. What channel the fights happen on, control of star names, fewer star names attached to Sky increases the risk of losing headliners. Brook, Bellew and Frampton are the three main names but they are all in tough divisions at world level.

Carl Froch would have something to say about that.

[brian13]

The one promoter for Sky was a decent idea on paper, given the reluctance of cross-promotional collaboration in the older model, but there are now different problems. What channel the fights happen on, control of star names, fewer star names attached to Sky increases the risk of losing headliners. Brook, Bellew and Frampton are the three main names but they are all in tough divisions at world level.

Carl Froch would have something to say about that.

And so would Gavin Rees & Darren Barker

[docgeo]

Both Hern andWarren have promoted great fights and crap too...I dread to think of Harrison/Price

[brian13]

Both Hern andWarren have promoted great fights and crap too...I dread to think of Harrison/Price

Moloney is promoting that fight. Its on Warren's channel though.

[palooka]

If Matthew Macklin can make a successful career going between trainers and promoters it shouldn't be rocket science for promotional outfits to work together and deliver bouts that will be entertaining and thought provoking. It's just plain silly really.

[orbtastic]

Boxing needs to step up.

[Wrists]

Richard 'The Secret' Williams