BoxRec

thunderfromdownunder wrote:Can Irish Americans really be claimed as Irish? In that case throw in Les Darcy and Young Griffo to

I think first generation Irish Americans can, like Sullivan.

no one's mentioned the great middleweight Philadelphia Jack O'Brien

or did he fight at light heavy? whatever, an amazing man and fighter

NYDominican wrote:

wsbuf wrote:Jimmy Slattery

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Slattery also.


Hey wsbuf, it seems that Jimmy Slattery has been overlooked in regards to professional boxing greats.


By this statement, I mean this in reference to how other respective boxers are always talked about by sports writers, etc.. Such as how Sugar Ray Robinson & Muhammad Ali are always being talked about.



Why do you think that Jimmy Slattery & his professional boxing career seems to be largely overlooked & passed over by sports writers?


Especially as it pertains to the pro boxing world?

At the time he wasn't overlooked. Many scribes and fighters thought he had the most skill of any boxer past and present. He had great wins over Rosenbloom, Levinsky, Stribling, Delaney and Scozza. But also had losses in big fights against Greb, Braddock, Berlenbach and Loughran.

His inconsistancy against the name fighters was his downfall where his drinking and women chasing was the cause. 114-13 record in a great era should have ranked him much higher than it does.

Jimmy Delaney, Jock Malone, Glen Flanagan, Tommy Collins

NYDominican wrote:

coreygardner wrote:George Gardner, the first Irish - American to win the Light Heavyweight Championship of the World

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True.


corey, is George your great grandfather?


Or, other relative?

Sorry, didn't get your post until now.

I am of no known relation to George, but I've seen pictures of him and researched him and I believe he is related. I resemble him. It's kind of a strange hobby of mine.

If I am related, it's way down the line.

I used to box and love genealogy, so I started researching pro fighters named Gardner.

Many of them look related, such as World Light Heavyweight Champion George Gardner and British Heavyweight Champion Jack Gardner.

I know I drive people crazy with all of my posts!

misterpunch wrote:or did he fight at light heavy? whatever, an amazing man and fighter

Philadelphia Jack O'Brien did win the light heavyweight title. He fought top fighters from middleweight to heavyweight. In modern times, his natural weight class probably would have been Super Middleweight for much of his career.

raylawpc wrote:

NYDominican wrote:

raylawpc wrote:Tommy Ryan and Jim Jeffries were not Irish. Jeffries was of Dutch extraction on his mother's side and English on his father's. Tommy Ryan was the ring name of Joseph Youngs, who was of English and French descent.

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ray, are you sure about Tommy Ryan & James J. Jeffries?


Mind if I ask, do you have any links regarding this?


If so, could you please post them.

Links? No but I have Jeffries and Ryan's autobiographies and numerous newspaper articles from the turn-of-the-century that confirm it.

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Oh okay. Thanks for the heads up.


raylawpc. ---- Statements. A few questions. -----


1. In regards to James J. Jeffries autobiography.

After you read Jefffries autobiography. -----

Did the information in Jeffries autobiography seem to correlate? With other information which you read about Jeffries from other sources. Before you obtained Jeffries autobiography.



2. In regards to James J. Jeffries second fight. Against Fitzsimmons.

The day after the second fight, it was reported in the "Chronicle". ---- That right after the second fight ended, that James went up to Fitzsimmons. To shake his hand. That Jeffries stated to Fitzsimmons, that "Those things on your hands cut me up a lot". Jeffries stated this to Fitzsimmons as he was feeling the tape on his hands.

Jeffries also stated this to Fitzsimmons. ---- "You didn't wear them the last time and your blows never cut me up the way they did tonight".


So, it was rumored that Fitzsimmons had plaster of Paris under his bandages.



raylawpc, in the autobiography of James J. Jeffries. ---- Did you read any information which corroborates this?


That sure points towards Fitzsimmons using plaster of Paris under his bandages?

coreygardner wrote:

NYDominican wrote:

coreygardner wrote:George Gardner, the first Irish - American to win the Light Heavyweight Championship of the World

________________________________________________________


True.


corey, is George your great grandfather?


Or, other relative?

Sorry, didn't get your post until now.

I am of no known relation to George, but I've seen pictures of him and researched him and I believe he is related. I resemble him. It's kind of a strange hobby of mine.

If I am related, it's way down the line.

I used to box and love genealogy, so I started researching pro fighters named Gardner.

Many of them look related, such as World Light Heavyweight Champion George Gardner and British Heavyweight Champion Jack Gardner.

I know I drive people crazy with all of my posts!

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________



corey, no need for any apology.


Everything's totally cool. Take your time. There was no rush in replying back.


I see your angle with your first 4 points above.

wsbuf wrote:

NYDominican wrote:

wsbuf wrote:Jimmy Slattery

_________________________________________________________



Slattery also.


Hey wsbuf, it seems that Jimmy Slattery has been overlooked in regards to professional boxing greats.


By this statement, I mean this in reference to how other respective boxers are always talked about by sports writers, etc.. Such as how Sugar Ray Robinson & Muhammad Ali are always being talked about.



Why do you think that Jimmy Slattery & his professional boxing career seems to be largely overlooked & passed over by sports writers?


Especially as it pertains to the pro boxing world?

At the time he wasn't overlooked. Many scribes and fighters thought he had the most skill of any boxer past and present. He had great wins over Rosenbloom, Levinsky, Stribling, Delaney and Scozza. But also had losses in big fights against Greb, Braddock, Berlenbach and Loughran.

His inconsistancy against the name fighters was his downfall where his drinking and women chasing was the cause. 114-13 record in a great era should have ranked him much higher than it does.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________



I totally see your 6 points above. I'm in agreeement.


wsbuf, in regards to you pointing out about Jimmys wins & losses. Here's a list of Slatterys top wins throughout his career. ----


1. Win against Jack Delaney. Via a 6 round decision.


2. Win against Maxie Rosenbloom. Via a 6 round decision.


3. Win against Maxie Rosenbloom. Via a 10 round decision.


4. Win against Maxie Rosenbloom. Via a 10 round decision.


5. Win against Lou Scozza. Via a 15 round majority decision.


6. Win against King Levinsky. Via a decision.



Jimmys losses. Against his toughest opponents.


1. Against Paul Berlenbach. Loss. Via an 11th round tko.


2. Against Young Stribling. Loss. Via a 10 round decision.


3. Against Tommy Loughran. Loss. Via a majority decision.


4. Against Jim Braddock. Loss. Via a 9th round tko.


5. Against Maxie Rosenbloom. Loss. Via a 10 round decision.


6. Against Maxie Rosenbloom. Loss. Via a 15 round split decision.


7. Against Maxie Rosenbloom. Loss. Via a 15 round unanimous decision.


8. Against King Levinsky. Loss. Via a split decision.


9. Against King Levinsky. Loss. Via a 10 round decision.

Good thread.

Rinty Monaghan deserves a mention. Fantastic little feather-fisted flyweight that boxed throughout the 30's and 40's. Proper technician in the ring.

HomicideHenry wrote:

thunderfromdownunder wrote:Can Irish Americans really be claimed as Irish? In that case throw in Les Darcy and Young Griffo to

I think first generation Irish Americans can, like Sullivan.

I concur with this.

Though me agreeing with this sentiment got me in ALOT of hot water with our radio listeners, because the subject of Jerry Quarry came up. I said Quarry can't be considered Irish because he is at least four or five generation American. There comes a time to where someone has to cut the cord on ancestral ties. Now, when you got someone 1st generation or 2nd generation American whose parents or grandparents came from Ireland then that's different (to a point) or someone who was born in Ireland and lives in America.

Myself, when you are THAT far down the pipeline from your ancestry you don't make your heritage a primary thing. You are not an Irish-American, you are an American of Irish descent.